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    Thread: APR K04 Build experience 2012 GLI bad software?

    1. Member jspirate's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 03:20 PM #226
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I'm not sure on all the details yet, but you are correct, the misfires continued, on the same cylinder after swapping the coil packs / spark plugs. I also got a text recently that the injectors move didn't change the misfire as well. Grant's a master tech, so I'm sure he'll go through the wiring harness, but I'll pass along the info. Thanks!

      Just a note... I replaced the engine wiring on my CC and it didn't stop the misfires. Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that I've done everything mentioned in this thread and it didn't work for me.
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    2. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 03:46 PM #227
      Quote Originally Posted by jspirate View Post
      Just a note... I replaced the engine wiring on my CC and it didn't stop the misfires. Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that I've done everything mentioned in this thread and it didn't work for me.
      Thanks for the update. The guys are still on it.
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      10-05-2012 03:56 PM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by 9900rpm View Post
      I don't believe that's what he means. When he said they swapped the coil and misfire did not follow, I would think that it means that the misfire did not follow the coil which was presumed to be bad. Example, if coil 1 is thought to be bad, and is swapped with coil 2, so coil 1 is in cyl 2, coil 2 is in cyl 1; cylinder 2 should now have the misfire. In this case, it does not; misfire still in cylinder 1, regardless of what coil is in there. APR, correct me if I'm wrong here.

      What you guys might want to try is check the wiring for both the ignition coil on the misfiring cylinder, as well as the wiring for that injector. If there is a break or short in one of those wires, it may cause the misfire at higher rpm, where electrical load is higher. Also take a peek at the injector in that cylinder. Could be stuck open. Could be that these new GLI/CC's are leaving the factory with flaws.

      APR, would you know if the misfire the OP is getting and the Brazilian dude with the misfire is in the same cylinder, or no?
      Misfire in cylinder 2/3 at 6000-6300 rpm mostly, with program 104RON. Vag shows multiple misfire detected. Some times occur cylinder disabling too

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    4. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 08:53 PM #229
      Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.
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    5. 10-05-2012 09:03 PM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.
      Very nice. Dying to know what it was

    6. 10-06-2012 03:43 PM #231
      following up with my 07 FSI GTI k04, new OEM iridium spark plugs gapped @ 0.028 (instead of 0.032) + 4 new coils and it's still hesitating right at 6500 rpm or so, just for a fire or two, never throwing a CEL. I did notice a small amount of oil in the coil/spark plug area, thinking thats a valve cover gasket. The misfires, or whatever they are, are becoming less and less noticeable after changing plugs + coils, but its still there. I'm not using an aftermarket intercooler, and only have aftermarket downpipe right now (intercooler is on its way).

      Gonna take it back to APR rep on monday and see what they can find. Maybe a faulty injector or something... COULD be a lot of things, is there anything that sticks out or seems more likely with the FSI k04 ignition errors? I'm not going into limp or getting any CEL's, just some hesitation around redline. Any/all help is appreciated, thanks again to the APR reps for working their butts off.
      Last edited by atromos; 10-06-2012 at 03:46 PM.

    7. Member jspirate's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 05:04 PM #232
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.
      Looking forward to the update!
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      10-06-2012 05:17 PM #233
      Quote Originally Posted by jspirate View Post
      Looking forward to the update!
      Me too!

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      10-06-2012 05:40 PM #234
      Quote Originally Posted by fea30boy View Post
      Me too!

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      Last edited by zucchini; 10-06-2012 at 09:34 PM.
      Passat B6 Wagon 2012 TSI; APR K04;DP 3",cat 200 cels;turbo outlet pipe;APR carbonio;VCDS;

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      10-06-2012 06:48 PM #235
      Honestly, reading about what appears to be some obvious issues with the install as the first update, apr found, to this thread has me concerned with the knowledge of the installers and OP in regards to how this vehicle operates to begin with. Even after "8000 miles", simple things were not addressed before slinging mud at APR.

      Props to APR regardless of the outcome of the underlying issue causing the misfires, for stepping up to the plate on this.

      Coming from an Audi/VW tech with 7 years experience. I've installed a few of these kits as an apr dealer. They do a great job of trying to take the guess work out the equation.
      2004 GLI

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    11. 10-07-2012 09:25 AM #236
      +1

      It'll be very interesting to see what the final culprit was. Clearly there were mechanical issues allowing unmetered air into the k04 for as much as 8000 miles with presumably lots of wot runs logging and testing. I hope for op's sake that he hasn't damaged his motor. The fact that fixing this didn't cure the misfires does not bode well.

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      10-08-2012 02:58 PM #237
      Anything New?


    13. Member ryan mills's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 03:51 PM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by Jayj View Post
      Honestly, reading about what appears to be some obvious issues with the install as the first update, apr found, to this thread has me concerned with the knowledge of the installers and OP in regards to how this vehicle operates to begin with. Even after "8000 miles", simple things were not addressed before slinging mud at APR.

      Props to APR regardless of the outcome of the underlying issue causing the misfires, for stepping up to the plate on this.

      Coming from an Audi/VW tech with 7 years experience. I've installed a few of these kits as an apr dealer. They do a great job of trying to take the guess work out the equation.
      I installed a few of these in my day and I am working with JSpirate on his issue. Trust me when I say that hardware is not the issue, unless we are dealing with "bad" hardware, but I don't see how that is possible. Since this is isolated to the newer ECUs, I'm convinced that this is the issue. Nevermind the random folks that pipe up with their older FSI engine and their coilpack and cam follower issues. If you look at the guys with the 2010+ engines, you will see a that it's an issue. Needless to say, I'm interested in the issue since it's been bugging me for nearly a year.
      Last edited by ryan mills; 10-08-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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      10-08-2012 05:59 PM #239
      Quote Originally Posted by ryan mills View Post
      I installed a few of these in my day and I am working with JSpirate on his issue. Trust me when I say that hardware is not the issue, unless we are dealing with "bad" hardware, but I don't see how that is possible. Since this is isolated to the newer ECUs, I'm convinced that this is the issue. Nevermind the random folks that pipe up with their older FSI engine and their coilpack and cam follower issues. If you look at the guys with the 2010+ engines, you will see a that it's an issue. Needless to say, I'm interested in the issue since it's been bugging me for nearly a year.
      Passat B6 Wagon 2012 TSI; APR K04;DP 3",cat 200 cels;turbo outlet pipe;APR carbonio;VCDS;

    15. 10-08-2012 07:51 PM #240
      Well after reading this thread, I went out and checked my MK6 GLI and no issues thus far at 5800 miles, with 1.4k with the KO4. Setup is below.
      Last edited by GLIMK6; 10-08-2012 at 10:12 PM.
      '12 GLI AB 6MT
      Build

    16. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      10-08-2012 11:06 PM #241
      As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

      I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

      DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

      The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion).

      In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.

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      10-08-2012 11:13 PM #242
      Nice! Can't wait to flash the final version!

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    18. Member jspirate's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 06:02 AM #243
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.

      I have a straight drive and I am getting re-flashed on Friday (10/12). I will report back and see if its fixed!
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      10-09-2012 07:13 AM #244
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

      I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

      DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

      The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion).

      In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.
      I have an issue not only in third gear, second gear too

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      10-09-2012 09:17 AM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

      I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

      DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

      The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion).

      In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.
      Is this due to different coding in a different contry, or is this everwhere? About to pull the trigger on the K04 setup here in the states and this is scaring me.

    21. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:09 AM #246
      It all started with the '11+ CCs and 12+ GLIs having a different computer, then continued when the software map was a little different between those cars and the GTIs (who as far as I know never had a problem). APR had their top mechanical tech and top software tech on it for two days. You should be safe.

    22. Member CommonGTI's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 10:47 AM #247
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      It all started with the '11+ CCs and 12+ GLIs having a different computer, then continued when the software map was a little different between those cars and the GTIs (who as far as I know never had a problem). APR had their top mechanical tech and top software tech on it for two days. You should be safe.
      I wonder if this also goes for the non KO4 software as well? Where is Arin?

    23. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-09-2012 12:18 PM #248
      From what engineering said, the misfires really didn't make sense. All data appeared perfect, right until they occurred. It was like hitting a brick wall and would not shift out of third (DSG). The misfires were on one cylinder, 3rd gear, right near redline. (Manual shift fine, automatic shift, not fine). They swapped the coil packs, spark plugs and injectors and the misfire did not follow. They checked for carbon buildup and it was fine. The MAF was unplugged to help rule out any leaks (Some were found and fixed), but there was no change. The car was run very lean to help rule out a fueling issue, but there was no change. IIRC other hardware was examined too. It's possible it could be mechanical, such as something in the head / valve train like we've seen on some FSI models with incorrect valve springs from the factory, however we don't have any data to support that and I don't want to assume that's the case and cause mass hysteria. We have people reporting misfires, and we have people with the same cars / transmissions / ECUs reporting no misfires. We even have our in house MK6 GLI MED17.5.2 with a stage 3/3+ (prototype) turbocharger system, on stock injectors, with no misfires what so ever (IE, higher power levels, more demand on the system). I would only expect misfires on higher power vehicles, so stage 1/2 should not have any issues at all, and we've had 0 reports from what I gather. In the end changes were made to get the car to a point where it would not misfire. IIRC, when the engineers left (Had to leave), it was fine, however they wanted to see if anything would change over the weekend (which it did) so the other files were updated. I have a few other people testing now. We'll be looking to get another car in house to dig into this future to find out what's going on.

      So, if anyone has the misfire issue, please send me an email, and I'll get the updates out for you to try. aahnell@goapr.com

      Thanks!
      Last edited by Arin@APR; 10-09-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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      10-09-2012 12:24 PM #249
      Happy to know that the issue has been fixed, after all the comments about.
      Since the beginning some of us believed that was an ECU issue, only in the MED 17.5.2 due to a lot of reasons explained through the comments.

      Living and learning......

      Passat B6 Wagon 2012 TSI; APR K04;DP 3",cat 200 cels;turbo outlet pipe;APR carbonio;VCDS;

    25. Member NS01GTI's Avatar
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      10-10-2012 11:18 AM #250
      Quote Originally Posted by zucchini View Post
      Happy to know that the issue has been fixed, after all the comments about.
      Since the beginning some of us believed that was an ECU issue, only in the MED 17.5.2 due to a lot of reasons explained through the comments.

      Living and learning......

      Agreed with this. Definitely nice to see this has a positive resolution. And selfishly, happy to hear the "fix" has been applied to all GLI K04 tunes, since I'll be getting mine ASAP.
      2012 GLI DSG
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