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    Thread: APR K04 Build experience 2012 GLI bad software?

    1. Junior Member
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      10-02-2012 01:49 PM #211
      Hi 9900rpm,
      As the OP doesn't answer I will. We replaced here in Brazil both the ignition coils and the spark plugs! Tested with different coil packs!
      Tested MAF, all joints........ everything is ok!
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      Last edited by fea30boy; 10-02-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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    2. Member jspirate's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 02:33 PM #212
      Quote Originally Posted by 9900rpm View Post
      Is it possible that both of these cars are hack jobs? Yes, but unlikely.
      My ECU was flashed at APR head quarters and after that I replaced LOTS of hardware trying to find the misfire problem with my 2011 k04'd CC. I am convinced this is not a hardware issue.

      I don't feel like APR is working hard enough to resolve my issue. I've sent loads of logs and talked in tons of PMs with Arin. This resulted in a new map and a second shipment of my ECU to APR. Its not that they haven't tried, but I feel like they haven't tried adequately. Their latest suggestion is for me to drive 14 hours one-way and leave my car with them for a couple of days so that they can trouble-shoot. That so easy for them to offer. It puts it all on me, the customer.
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      10-02-2012 02:37 PM #213
      I agree......... This is not a hardware issue!

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    4. 10-02-2012 02:58 PM #214
      Quote Originally Posted by jspirate View Post
      My ECU was flashed at APR head quarters and after that I replaced LOTS of hardware trying to find the misfire problem with my 2011 k04'd CC. I am convinced this is not a hardware issue.

      I don't feel like APR is working hard enough to resolve my issue. I've sent loads of logs and talked in tons of PMs with Arin. This resulted in a new map and a second shipment of my ECU to APR. Its not that they haven't tried, but I feel like they haven't tried adequately. Their latest suggestion is for me to drive 14 hours one-way and leave my car with them for a couple of days so that they can trouble-shoot. That so easy for them to offer. It puts it all on me, the customer.
      Sorry for the noob question

      Is this on the same MED 17.5.2 ECU?

      NVMD http://www.goapr.com/news/2011/10/18...ettaglibeetle/
      Last edited by superwtc; 10-02-2012 at 03:19 PM.

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      10-02-2012 03:18 PM #215
      Quote Originally Posted by superwtc View Post
      Sorry for the noob question

      Is this on the same MED 17.5.2 ECU?
      Yep

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    6. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 10:34 AM #216
      My last post didn't stick for some reason; I'll retype:

      English is not my only language and so perhaps I haven't made a few points clear, Ill try to clarify.

      1: I have not changed coil-packs, injectors, or anything else. The car runs fine without the tune, has issues only with the tune. If a hardware change is required beyond the recommended/required upgrades then either they should be included in the kit, or a warning should be made. I chose to buy a KIT, not a gamble on a pile of add-ons. If the software pushes stock hardware beyond it's capacity then replacements should definitely be made known or included.

      2: I was never preparing a big nasty law suit. After three months (longer than most would wait) of run-around and no resolution I was looking at one or all of the following as a means of getting resolution.
      a) Visa purchase protection because I did not get what I paid for and the company was not fixing the issue.
      b) Small claims court for the value of the software and compensation for all the other parts I purchased and had installed in order to use the kit that are now basically engine jewelry. I am out more than just software. I have all the hardware required for this kit from intake to exhaust.
      c) Better Business Bureau to hopefully reduce the chances of another consumer experiencing this.

      3: My intent with this thread was to find out if anyone else was having this problem and what they had done about it, NOT to start a smear campaign or burn on APR. That part APR did themselves by trying to ignore the problem and representatives here on the forum not giving the whole truth of the matter. Other complications came from fan-boys and antis who derailed the conversation for a few pages.

      4: This is not a freak issue. There are more people with this than just the Brazilian and I, they have remained publicly quiet for some reason. Although they have not contributed to getting APR's response, I hope that the fix will be universal and apply to them too.

      Let's hope the cure is found this week. I drop my car off tomorrow. I pitty the techs who will be working on my car, and another 2012 GLI in the area with the same issue, they have a lot of pressure on them, but most of that pressure has come from the issue not being handled 3 months (or in my case 8,000 miles) ago.

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      10-03-2012 10:38 AM #217
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      My last post didn't stick for some reason; I'll retype:

      English is not my only language and so perhaps I haven't made a few points clear, Ill try to clarify.

      1: I have not changed coil-packs, injectors, or anything else. The car runs fine without the tune, has issues only with the tune. If a hardware change is required beyond the recommended/required upgrades then either they should be included in the kit, or a warning should be made. I chose to buy a KIT, not a gamble on a pile of add-ons. If the software pushes stock hardware beyond it's capacity then replacements should definitely be made known or included.

      2: I was never preparing a big nasty law suit. After three months (longer than most would wait) of run-around and no resolution I was looking at one or all of the following as a means of getting resolution.
      a) Visa purchase protection because I did not get what I paid for and the company was not fixing the issue.
      b) Small claims court for the value of the software and compensation for all the other parts I purchased and had installed in order to use the kit that are now basically engine jewelry. I am out more than just software. I have all the hardware required for this kit from intake to exhaust.
      c) Better Business Bureau to hopefully reduce the chances of another consumer experiencing this.

      3: My intent with this thread was to find out if anyone else was having this problem and what they had done about it, NOT to start a smear campaign or burn on APR. That part APR did themselves by trying to ignore the problem and representatives here on the forum not giving the whole truth of the matter. Other complications came from fan-boys and antis who derailed the conversation for a few pages.

      4: This is not a freak issue. There are more people with this than just the Brazilian and I, they have remained publicly quiet for some reason. Although they have not contributed to getting APR's response, I hope that the fix will be universal and apply to them too.

      Let's hope the cure is found this week. I drop my car off tomorrow. I pitty the techs who will be working on my car, and another 2012 GLI in the area with the same issue, they have a lot of pressure on them, but most of that pressure has come from the issue not being handled 3 months (or in my case 8,000 miles) ago.


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      10-04-2012 05:25 PM #218
      Any updates??


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      10-04-2012 08:13 PM #219
      Quote Originally Posted by FLtrooper View Post
      Any updates??

      Fixing things now............. updates soon.
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    10. 10-05-2012 03:26 AM #220
      had APR k04 installed as of yesterday around noon (07 gti FSI). have some "misfires", feels like the cars tires are slipping out of traction. install rep recommends spark plugs, from all the "coilpack" talk I'll pick that up too and return what I don't need.

      DEFINITELY hopeful that it's some coilpack bs and not some ECU ghost issue like this dude has going on. I will 100% for sure check in with the solution.

      also, if APR is flying dudes out to help with your tune, then that has to be the most amazing customer support I've ever heard of. That's like not liking a meal at a diner so they drove gordon ramsey over to redesign the whole menu!

    11. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:38 AM #221
      I got some updates last night before turning in for the night. Please pardon me if I've made any mistakes:

      Reports are a misfire on 1 cylinders. Apparently there was a massive post MAF leak on the intake system. Some unknown intake part was not properly connected to the turbo via a coupler that was too big, so the intake was just flopping around. They've secured the connection, but the misfires continued. The intake filter was also heavily clogged so it was replaced with a new carbonio intake.

      100% of the misfires are on a single cylinder. All ECU Explorer data appears correct before the misfires. First the coil packs were swapped, but the misfire did not follow. The spark plugs were then checked and swapped, but again, the misfire did not follow. I headed off to bed and this morning I saw an update that they were pulling the intake manifold. Carbon buildup on the valves looked fine. The injectors are being swapped to see if the misfires follow. I'll have more updates soon.

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      10-05-2012 11:24 AM #222
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I got some updates last night before turning in for the night. Please pardon me if I've made any mistakes:

      Reports are a misfire on 1 cylinders. Apparently there was a massive post MAF leak on the intake system. Some unknown intake part was not properly connected to the turbo via a coupler that was too big, so the intake was just flopping around. They've secured the connection, but the misfires continued. The intake filter was also heavily clogged so it was replaced with a new carbonio intake.

      100% of the misfires are on a single cylinder. All ECU Explorer data appears correct before the misfires. First the coil packs were swapped, but the misfire did not follow. The spark plugs were then checked and swapped, but again, the misfire did not follow. I headed off to bed and this morning I saw an update that they were pulling the intake manifold. Carbon buildup on the valves looked fine. The injectors are being swapped to see if the misfires follow. I'll have more updates soon.

      Passat B6 Wagon 2009 TSI; APR K04;DP 3",cat 200 cels;turbo outlet pipe;APR carbonio;VCDS;UD Neuspeed pullley

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      10-05-2012 11:52 AM #223
      So after the coil was swapped the Misfire was gone?

      That seems like good news! Not so nervous about doing this upgrade!


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      10-05-2012 12:10 PM #224
      Quote Originally Posted by FLtrooper View Post
      So after the coil was swapped the Misfire was gone?

      That seems like good news! Not so nervous about doing this upgrade!

      I don't believe that's what he means. When he said they swapped the coil and misfire did not follow, I would think that it means that the misfire did not follow the coil which was presumed to be bad. Example, if coil 1 is thought to be bad, and is swapped with coil 2, so coil 1 is in cyl 2, coil 2 is in cyl 1; cylinder 2 should now have the misfire. In this case, it does not; misfire still in cylinder 1, regardless of what coil is in there. APR, correct me if I'm wrong here.

      What you guys might want to try is check the wiring for both the ignition coil on the misfiring cylinder, as well as the wiring for that injector. If there is a break or short in one of those wires, it may cause the misfire at higher rpm, where electrical load is higher. Also take a peek at the injector in that cylinder. Could be stuck open. Could be that these new GLI/CC's are leaving the factory with flaws.

      APR, would you know if the misfire the OP is getting and the Brazilian dude with the misfire is in the same cylinder, or no?
      Last edited by 9900rpm; 10-05-2012 at 12:13 PM.

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      10-05-2012 12:59 PM #225
      I'm not sure on all the details yet, but you are correct, the misfires continued, on the same cylinder after swapping the coil packs / spark plugs. I also got a text recently that the injectors move didn't change the misfire as well. Grant's a master tech, so I'm sure he'll go through the wiring harness, but I'll pass along the info. Thanks!
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    16. Member jspirate's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 03:20 PM #226
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I'm not sure on all the details yet, but you are correct, the misfires continued, on the same cylinder after swapping the coil packs / spark plugs. I also got a text recently that the injectors move didn't change the misfire as well. Grant's a master tech, so I'm sure he'll go through the wiring harness, but I'll pass along the info. Thanks!

      Just a note... I replaced the engine wiring on my CC and it didn't stop the misfires. Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that I've done everything mentioned in this thread and it didn't work for me.
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    17. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 03:46 PM #227
      Quote Originally Posted by jspirate View Post
      Just a note... I replaced the engine wiring on my CC and it didn't stop the misfires. Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that I've done everything mentioned in this thread and it didn't work for me.
      Thanks for the update. The guys are still on it.
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      10-05-2012 03:56 PM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by 9900rpm View Post
      I don't believe that's what he means. When he said they swapped the coil and misfire did not follow, I would think that it means that the misfire did not follow the coil which was presumed to be bad. Example, if coil 1 is thought to be bad, and is swapped with coil 2, so coil 1 is in cyl 2, coil 2 is in cyl 1; cylinder 2 should now have the misfire. In this case, it does not; misfire still in cylinder 1, regardless of what coil is in there. APR, correct me if I'm wrong here.

      What you guys might want to try is check the wiring for both the ignition coil on the misfiring cylinder, as well as the wiring for that injector. If there is a break or short in one of those wires, it may cause the misfire at higher rpm, where electrical load is higher. Also take a peek at the injector in that cylinder. Could be stuck open. Could be that these new GLI/CC's are leaving the factory with flaws.

      APR, would you know if the misfire the OP is getting and the Brazilian dude with the misfire is in the same cylinder, or no?
      Misfire in cylinder 2/3 at 6000-6300 rpm mostly, with program 104RON. Vag shows multiple misfire detected. Some times occur cylinder disabling too

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      10-05-2012 08:53 PM #229
      Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.
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    20. 10-05-2012 09:03 PM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.
      Very nice. Dying to know what it was

    21. 10-06-2012 03:43 PM #231
      following up with my 07 FSI GTI k04, new OEM iridium spark plugs gapped @ 0.028 (instead of 0.032) + 4 new coils and it's still hesitating right at 6500 rpm or so, just for a fire or two, never throwing a CEL. I did notice a small amount of oil in the coil/spark plug area, thinking thats a valve cover gasket. The misfires, or whatever they are, are becoming less and less noticeable after changing plugs + coils, but its still there. I'm not using an aftermarket intercooler, and only have aftermarket downpipe right now (intercooler is on its way).

      Gonna take it back to APR rep on monday and see what they can find. Maybe a faulty injector or something... COULD be a lot of things, is there anything that sticks out or seems more likely with the FSI k04 ignition errors? I'm not going into limp or getting any CEL's, just some hesitation around redline. Any/all help is appreciated, thanks again to the APR reps for working their butts off.
      Last edited by atromos; 10-06-2012 at 03:46 PM.

    22. Member jspirate's Avatar
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      10-06-2012 05:04 PM #232
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.
      Looking forward to the update!
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      10-06-2012 05:17 PM #233
      Quote Originally Posted by jspirate View Post
      Looking forward to the update!
      Me too!

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      10-06-2012 05:40 PM #234
      Quote Originally Posted by fea30boy View Post
      Me too!

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      Last edited by zucchini; 10-06-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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      10-06-2012 06:48 PM #235
      Honestly, reading about what appears to be some obvious issues with the install as the first update, apr found, to this thread has me concerned with the knowledge of the installers and OP in regards to how this vehicle operates to begin with. Even after "8000 miles", simple things were not addressed before slinging mud at APR.

      Props to APR regardless of the outcome of the underlying issue causing the misfires, for stepping up to the plate on this.

      Coming from an Audi/VW tech with 7 years experience. I've installed a few of these kits as an apr dealer. They do a great job of trying to take the guess work out the equation.
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    26. 10-07-2012 09:25 AM #236
      +1

      It'll be very interesting to see what the final culprit was. Clearly there were mechanical issues allowing unmetered air into the k04 for as much as 8000 miles with presumably lots of wot runs logging and testing. I hope for op's sake that he hasn't damaged his motor. The fact that fixing this didn't cure the misfires does not bode well.

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      10-08-2012 02:58 PM #237
      Anything New?


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      10-08-2012 03:51 PM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by Jayj View Post
      Honestly, reading about what appears to be some obvious issues with the install as the first update, apr found, to this thread has me concerned with the knowledge of the installers and OP in regards to how this vehicle operates to begin with. Even after "8000 miles", simple things were not addressed before slinging mud at APR.

      Props to APR regardless of the outcome of the underlying issue causing the misfires, for stepping up to the plate on this.

      Coming from an Audi/VW tech with 7 years experience. I've installed a few of these kits as an apr dealer. They do a great job of trying to take the guess work out the equation.
      I installed a few of these in my day and I am working with JSpirate on his issue. Trust me when I say that hardware is not the issue, unless we are dealing with "bad" hardware, but I don't see how that is possible. Since this is isolated to the newer ECUs, I'm convinced that this is the issue. Nevermind the random folks that pipe up with their older FSI engine and their coilpack and cam follower issues. If you look at the guys with the 2010+ engines, you will see a that it's an issue. Needless to say, I'm interested in the issue since it's been bugging me for nearly a year.
      Last edited by ryan mills; 10-08-2012 at 03:59 PM.

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      10-08-2012 05:59 PM #239
      Quote Originally Posted by ryan mills View Post
      I installed a few of these in my day and I am working with JSpirate on his issue. Trust me when I say that hardware is not the issue, unless we are dealing with "bad" hardware, but I don't see how that is possible. Since this is isolated to the newer ECUs, I'm convinced that this is the issue. Nevermind the random folks that pipe up with their older FSI engine and their coilpack and cam follower issues. If you look at the guys with the 2010+ engines, you will see a that it's an issue. Needless to say, I'm interested in the issue since it's been bugging me for nearly a year.
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    30. 10-08-2012 07:51 PM #240
      Well after reading this thread, I went out and checked my MK6 GLI and no issues thus far at 5800 miles, with 1.4k with the KO4. Setup is below.
      Last edited by GLIMK6; 10-08-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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      10-08-2012 11:06 PM #241
      As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

      I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

      DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

      The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion).

      In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.

    32. Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jul 20th, 2012
      Location
      São Paulo, Brasil
      Posts
      59
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      2011 Jetta TSI/APR Stage3
      10-08-2012 11:13 PM #242
      Nice! Can't wait to flash the final version!

      Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
      2011 Jetta TSI
      APR Stage3/CTS FMIC/Forge Pipes

    33. Member jspirate's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 15th, 2011
      Location
      Virginia
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      2,140
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      2011 CC 6MT
      10-09-2012 06:02 AM #243
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.

      I have a straight drive and I am getting re-flashed on Friday (10/12). I will report back and see if its fixed!
      Daily | Weekend | Project

    34. Junior Member
      Join Date
      Jul 20th, 2012
      Location
      São Paulo, Brasil
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      2011 Jetta TSI/APR Stage3
      10-09-2012 07:13 AM #244
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

      I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

      DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

      The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion).

      In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.
      I have an issue not only in third gear, second gear too

      Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
      2011 Jetta TSI
      APR Stage3/CTS FMIC/Forge Pipes

    35. Member
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2003
      Location
      Maryland
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      243
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      95 VW Jetta VR,03 GTI VR,04 R32, 06 Duramax,00 Jetta TDI,04 S4 Avant, Pontiac G8 GT, 13 GLI
      10-09-2012 09:17 AM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

      I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

      DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

      The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion).

      In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

      READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
      -Was not hardware in any form
      -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
      -FIXED for manual cars
      -Nearly fixed for DSGs.
      Is this due to different coding in a different contry, or is this everwhere? About to pull the trigger on the K04 setup here in the states and this is scaring me.

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