The Camaro finally beats the Mustang

[CP1]

Granted, not exactly a run-of-the-mill Camaro or Mustang.

2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison Test

Sit Down, Brace Yourself
Then, just as we were convinced the GT500's power was utterly untouchable, we moved on to handling tests and things changed. Our first hint that there's something truly special about Chevy's ZL1 came when it calmly circled the skid pad at 1.03g — a number higher than the last Chevy Corvette ZR1 we tested and matching the McLaren MP4-12C and Porsche 911 GT2 RS for the highest lateral acceleration we've ever recorded for a production car.

Wait. Isn't this a Camaro? Yes, yes it is. The best Camaro ever.

At 70.8 mph it was also quicker through the slalom than the GT500, which managed a still respectable 69.1 mph.

One hundred and ten feet are required to bring the ZL1 to a halt from 60 mph — 1 foot longer than the GT500. Both cars suffer from a too-soft middle pedal when driven with purpose — hardly surprising given the road-crushing mass and power at work here.

Practical Matters
When it comes to the ZL1, Chevy rejects the notion that cars this capable need to reflect those abilities in their ride quality. This was evident as we drove the Camaro 2,300 miles across the country to clash with the GT500 in Southern California. Never once during the journey did our backside lose consciousness. Calling the Camaro comfortable is a stretch because its ride is taut even in Tour mode, but it's still a wholly worthy long-distance car. In fairness, the Shelby, too, manages a decent ride on the highway, but it lacks the latitude provided by the Camaro's magnetic dampers.

Some fundamental problems still persist in the Camaro. It remains only a periscope away from rivaling a Virginia class submarine's forward visibility. As a result, placing the Camaro in a corner precisely is consistently frustrating. Even after three full days behind the wheel we were incapable of discerning exactly where the Camaro ended and empty space began. Chevy somewhat mitigates the problem in Reverse by installing a back-up camera that displays in the rearview mirror. Submarine commanders would be proud.

The Ford answers back with better visibility and more supportive seats if you order the optional Recaros. It's still not possible to see the edges of the Shelby from behind the wheel, but being smaller in every dimension except height helps.

What the Ford gains in perception, it loses in drivability thanks to a tall 3.31 rear-end gear that allows it to reach 60 mph in 1st gear and claim a top speed over 200 mph. This gearing is purely a marketing tool designed to achieve stunning 0-60 numbers and a headline-worthy top speed. The trade-off is overcoming that tall ratio every time you pull away from a stop in the Shelby. Ample torque makes this manageable, but it still requires considerable attention to an area where the ZL1 is utterly seamless in comparison.

It's a similar, although much less drastic difference, when it comes to their respective shifters. They're both rowing the same gearbox, but the linkage in the Camaro has far less resistance. It makes every shift a non-event while the Mustang often pushes back against aggressive shifts. And let's face it: In cars like this, ripping gears is their stock in trade, so the Camaro's superiority here is a big deal.

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html

[Nourdmrolnmt]

[sforsancho]

Big Ford fan.

But I called it.

[r2kool4u]

But can you put 28's on the Mustang is the real question.

[nickthaskater]

Are they seriously saying the GT500 struggles to get away from stoplights..? The Z06 and ZR1 have gearing to allow 0-60 in 1st gear and get away with it just fine. I think the Viper did as well...

[sweetridebro]

Are they seriously saying the GT500 struggles to get away from stoplights..? The Z06 and ZR1 have gearing to allow 0-60 in 1st gear and get away with it just fine. I think the Viper did as well...

Yeah that just sounds silly to me.

[KC Jazz]

Are they seriously saying the GT500 struggles to get away from stoplights..? The Z06 and ZR1 have gearing to allow 0-60 in 1st gear and get away with it just fine. I think the Viper did as well...

Agreed. The car has over 600 lb/ft of torque. It's not struggling to get away from anything. That's just ridiculous.

[thisisdog]

Camaro has better handling?



brb IRS

brb magnetic ride control

Shocking.



I will take a camaro though, only the finest and best chinese plastic makes its way inside GM cars.

[WhitePoloCT]

Are they seriously saying the GT500 struggles to get away from stoplights..? The Z06 and ZR1 have gearing to allow 0-60 in 1st gear and get away with it just fine. I think the Viper did as well...

That isn't what they are saying, as far as I can tell. They are saying that due to the tall first gear, a bit more modulation of the clutch and accelerator is necessary when pulling away from a stop as compared to the Camaro. This is in normal everyday driving, where normal people don't drop the clutch at high revs.

[IsraelGT]

http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/...ison-test.html

1st Place: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
An unrivaled combination of precise control, ample power and a strikingly refined — and multitalented — chassis.

2nd Place: 2013 Ford Shelby GT500
More brawn than brains, which isn't a bad thing. Unless there's a ZL1 nearby.

[Mazda 3s]

2nd Place: 2013 Ford Shelby GT500
More brawn than brains, which isn't a bad thing. Unless there's a ZL1 nearby.

[Tuneman7]

And all of a sudden, the car TLC has cracked up to be nothing short of perfection has been taken down by the car supposedly cast away to mullet town USA.

Thank you come again.

[nickthaskater]

And all of a sudden, the car TLC has cracked up to be nothing short of perfection has been taken down by the car supposedly cast away to mullet town USA.

Thank you come again.

One review (an IL one at that) = "taken down"?

Edit:
That's not to say the Chevy didn't deserve to win, but it's worth noting that it seems IL weighed heavily on minor handling advantage and the smoother shift action, seemingly ignoring the primary purpose these cars exist: to haul a ton of ass in a straight line, an area in which the Shelby properly trounces the ZL1.

Personally, I'll take the Shelby, if for nothing else than the fact that I wouldn't feel like I'm peering out of a coffin (that, and I think the ZL1 looks silly).

[Tuneman7]

Imo, the ZL1 has been one of the most intriguing cars put out by the big 3 as of late due to the sophistication of the chassis in a car where it simply isn't expected of it. I'm really the glad the Chevy's moving the game in a new direction.

Remember reading in a comparo between the ZL1 and the Boss 302 Laguna Seca that the ZL1's front tires were the width of the Boss' rear tires, just insane... Not sure about the dimensions on this new GT500.

[Tuneman7]

One review (an IL one at that) = "taken down"?

Time will tell I guess. I've read reviews of the ZL1 from the major publications so far and they've been overly positive for the most part with the chassis and tech being well noted.

[nickthaskater]

Time will tell I guess. I've read reviews of the ZL1 from the major publications so far and they've been overly positive for the most part with the chassis and tech being well noted.

See my edit above

[Tuneman7]

It's subjectivity for the most part. It's going to be interesting to see though if this is a recurring theme in terms of the handling in particular or if maybe other publications will produce numbers that will lean otherwise. (Power should be a foregone conclusion)

I'm really more of a Chevy guy, both cars are great but I'd probably get the ZL1 or look at the Corvette GS/Z06. (That decision would keep me up at night) I've actually been in this GT500, unfortunately they had the ZL1 only on display at NYIAS.

[timmy222]

Not surprising really

Yes the Mustang generally gets the points in the lower models
But the Motoring critics have been raving about the ZL1 Handling
High horse power the GT500 has, but it was always going to be hard to put that power down

Still surprises me that the CAMARO in gereral has no love in the car lounge

[nickthaskater]

Not surprising really

Yes the Mustang generally gets the points in the lower models
But the Motoring critics have been raving about the ZL1 Handling
High horse power the GT500 has, but it was always going to be hard to put that power down

Still surprises me that the CAMARO in gereral has no love in the car lounge

The size, peanut sized trunk opening and claustrophobic interior kill any interest in the Camaro for me.

That said, give me a Z06/7 over any of the above, though of course that's nearly twice the price, lol.

[302W]

3.73's and a short shifter kit for the GT500, I'll take it.

[E34M50]

3.73's and a short shifter kit for the GT500, I'll take it.

your sig is awesome!

[BRealistic]

The Mustang is significantly faster in the 1/4 mile, but the Camaro is a better over all package?
Maybe the goal to reach 200 mph did compromise the Mustang a bit.

[al@absolute]

i'd still get the GT500 over the mustang, the Camaro has such poor outward visability that it really ruins it for me. I had an SS as a rental last month (a 'vert) and unless the top was down, it was a miserable ar to drive. I'll agree with the comfort aspect though, its a very quiet comfy place to be for hours of driving, slightly more than the Mustang.

[JustinCSVT]

Not surprising really

Yes the Mustang generally gets the points in the lower models
But the Motoring critics have been raving about the ZL1 Handling
High horse power the GT500 has, but it was always going to be hard to put that power down

Still surprises me that the CAMARO in gereral has no love in the car lounge

It's gets a lot of love from me. I've repeatedly stated that I'd buy a ZL1 over a GT500.

I don't know why people hate on the Camaro so much on TCL. It's not outselling the Mustang for no reason. The updates for '13 just make it even better.

[invisiblewar]

The size, peanut sized trunk opening and intimate interior kill any interest in the Camaro for me.

Let's be positive here

Score one for the General

[RacingManiac]

Camaro's interior visibility is a deal breaker, though that car is pretty special. GM is doing very well with these modern electronic handling aids. They were the first the perfect MR damper use on production car and now their PTM seems to be one of the best traction/stability system out there...

[Air and water do mix]

There are only two things that hurt the Camaro for me. Visibility and I tend to buy cars and keep them for a long time. I can't imagine what that magnaride suspension would cost to replace. Of course, I'm not in the market for a $50,000+ vehicle, so that doesn't make much difference in the real world.

Both cars are awesome, they're just concentrating on different aspects of awesomeness. How great is that?

[warren_s]

The size, peanut sized trunk opening and claustrophobic interior kill any interest in the Camaro for me.

Why do you need a big trunk? You have a Civic hatchback already, use that if you need to move stuff around?

[curvedinfinity]

Both are awesome. They're in a class of their own in performance value. Keeping in mind a new GT-R is what, 100k now? Almost double their price.

[JustinCSVT]

There are only two things that hurt the Camaro for me. Visibility and I tend to buy cars and keep them for a long time. I can't imagine what that magnaride suspension would cost to replace. Of course, I'm not in the market for a $50,000+ vehicle, so that doesn't make much difference in the real world.

Both cars are awesome, they're just concentrating on different aspects of awesomeness. How great is that?

I doubt the GT500's adjustable Bilsteins are going to be much cheaper...

[Air and water do mix]

I doubt the GT500's adjustable Bilsteins are going to be much cheaper...

An excellent point, but I wonder if alternatives would be available on the Mustang that wouldn't work on the more tech-heavy Camaro.

[RacingManiac]

There are only two things that hurt the Camaro for me. Visibility and I tend to buy cars and keep them for a long time. I can't imagine what that magnaride suspension would cost to replace. Of course, I'm not in the market for a $50,000+ vehicle, so that doesn't make much difference in the real world.

Both cars are awesome, they're just concentrating on different aspects of awesomeness. How great is that?

To be fair to the Magnaride, of all the adaptive electronic dampers out there, it is the simplest in design and least amount of parts(with arguably the most range and authority). The dampers themselves are actually less complicated than a regular shock as there are no actual "valving" to speak of. What might fail is the special seal they use since they have to deal with fluid with particles suspended in them. But being a relatively mature technology now(and the fluid itself hasn't changed much since the beginning), that probably is a lot less of a concern these days. The ZL1 features the newest version of the damper with 2 coils per piston, but the base design is still amazingly simple...At work here we used to try to design dampers to compete with MR dampers in other applications, and they are hard to beat on cost or performance. Only downside for them usually is their variance in performance in different temperature, and they fail soft when they lose power. The new gen one was rumored to address the latter.

What will be more prone to issue IMO will be all the associated electronic sensors that all these system needs. Breaking a height sensor or something will throw these things out of whack in a hurry...

[SVTDanny]

I don't know why people hate on the Camaro so much on TCL.

Because it's heinous.

[zaYG]

I'll still take the car that isn't a hideous beast with no windows.

[Air and water do mix]

To be fair to the Magnaride, of all the adaptive electronic dampers out there, it is the simplest in design and least amount of parts(with arguably the most range and authority)...

Hey, thanks for the informative post!

I could certainly see where a height sensor could throw it off quite a bit. Does it have a failsafe mode that locks the dampening at a certain rate?