My Sad K04 Passat Dyno Data

[Weehe]

Well after several years and way too much money, I finally got my passat where I thought I wanted it. So took it down to Komet Motersports for some dyno pulls. To make a long post short, I made 190whp and 231wtq. The car does have 170k miles on it, which I was told is probably the reasoning on these low numbers.

Mods:
1.8t ATW engine
K04-15 turbo
GIAC tune
5 bar FPR
SS Autochrome FMIC
w/ 2.5" piping
Forge TIP
Cone intake
w/ custom heat shield
New South Power gasket
Port & polished stock exhaust manifold
225 TT DV
3" test pipe
TT 2.5" Dp
w/ 2.5" piping to borla muffler
Ebay catch can
Full evap delete

Prior to the dyno pulls I seafoamed everything, fuel, oil and vac lines (showed a nice mani-turbo leak that i had to fix fast). I also changed the oil, filter and plugs 2 days before. The car does have 170K on it, but I have cleaned all the oil and grime out almost everything (have not separated the head or oil pan).

Ok I finally have the graphs.

All pulls in 4th gear, Mustang Dyno, air temp 70 degrees
1st:


3rd:


Do you guys think it is as simple as the engine is just old at 170k or that there is something wrong to only show 190whp and 231wtq?

[ejg3855]

does the car drive like you want it too ?

Before you knew what the numbers were did you want more power?

I don't really see those numbers as terrible, a bit low yes. I would assume that is a longitudinal FWD transmission maybe its less efficient and eats up more driveline loss ?

[Mindfault]

That is very low. And. Giac? seems about right for that tuner. On a ko3s. I think u have fueling issues or something other than that going wrong. Have u logged ur fuel trims and what not?

[Weehe]

That is very low. And. Giac? seems about right for that tuner. On a ko3s. I think u have fueling issues or something other than that going wrong. Have u logged ur fuel trims and what not?

I don't have vag com, but we did do A/F with the pulls. First pull was very weird: the A/F started at 14.5 but by 4000rps it dropped to 12. Then, the last pull sat at 11 the whole pull. Also it was only 70 degrees out, so wasn't too hot.

Is GIAC really that bad? The mechanic I went to uses a GIAC tune with his K03 and got 205whp, although he has the newer model cams, clean AEB head and ported intake mani with same other mods as me.

[Weehe]

does the car drive like you want it too ?

Before you knew what the numbers were did you want more power?

I don't really see those numbers as terrible, a bit low yes. I would assume that is a longitudinal FWD transmission maybe its less efficient and eats up more driveline loss ?

I was expecting the lowest it would have is 220whp based on everything I have added and from what other people have (not from feel since this is still my first car)

[groggory]

Get a vag com and get down to a bunch of logging. There are often a few 'small' problems that hold you back from total glory

[Mindfault]

Yeah, in my case it was 5 wires and fuse 43. Lol

[Weehe]

Get a vag com and get down to a bunch of logging. There are often a few 'small' problems that hold you back from total glory

Even if I got vag-com and was able to log stuff, would it really help me? I have an ATW so I can't change anything with uni/lemmi.

[Mindfault]

Yes, it would help you. You could figure out whats going on with it, because there is obviously something wrong. Do a compression test too

[Weehe]

Yeah, in my case it was 5 wires and fuse 43. Lol

guess that answers if vag com is worth it lol

[a4e3y5]

If it is of any consolation....190whp on a mustang is around 218whp on a dynojet. Still, logging is your best friend. I'm sure you'll squeeze a few hp more once you log

[groggory]

Even if I got vag-com and was able to log stuff, would it really help me? I have an ATW so I can't change anything with uni/lemmi.

It's amazing how well these engines run when they are running problem free. Just optimizing what you have oftentimes nets you more power than another upgrade.

Bummer about not being able to use Lemmiwinks/ Unisettings. I didn't know about that ATW limitation.

PS...Is the ATW wideband or narrowband?

[Weehe]

It's amazing how well these engines run when they are running problem free. Just optimizing what you have oftentimes nets you more power than another upgrade.

Bummer about not being able to use Lemmiwinks/ Unisettings. I didn't know about that ATW limitation.

PS...Is the ATW wideband or narrowband?

99% sure it is narrowband. It is a 2000 passat so I think that is before they changed to wide.

[jbrehm]

does the car drive like you want it too?

This. Were you sad with the car before you dyno'd it? I do agree with running some logs to make sure it's running optimally, but your car is meant to please you, not some machine that prints out graphs.

I think way too much stock is put into dynos and 1/4 times these days...no one seems to want to build a well-rounded car. If only I had a dollar for every BT 1.8T owner rolling around on budget tires and complaining about no traction

[Mindfault]

^DONT HATE truthfully, id rather break traction than break halfshafts or transmissions

[Rod Ratio]

This. Were you sad with the car before you dyno'd it? I do agree with running some logs to make sure it's running optimally, but your car is meant to please you, not some machine that prints out graphs.

I think way too much stock is put into dynos and 1/4 times these days...no one seems to want to build a well-rounded car. If only I had a dollar for every BT 1.8T owner rolling around on budget tires and complaining about no traction

This

[Vegeta Gti]

^DONT HATE truthfully, id rather break traction than break halfshafts or transmissions

hell yeah

[Weehe]

This. Were you sad with the car before you dyno'd it? I do agree with running some logs to make sure it's running optimally, but your car is meant to please you, not some machine that prints out graphs.

I think way too much stock is put into dynos and 1/4 times these days...no one seems to want to build a well-rounded car. If only I had a dollar for every BT 1.8T owner rolling around on budget tires and complaining about no traction

I guess I could say I'm content with it before I got the numbers. I always want it to go faster, but the parts left are not worth the time or money for this thing. I guess I should be happy with these numbers because it means I might be able to make it go faster by fixing something rather than upgrading. Now I just need to find someone in San Antonio who will let me borrow there vag-com.

[groggory]

You could potentially convert to wideband for mo powa

[Weehe]

You could potentially convert to wideband for mo powa

I thought about it but I would need the harness, new ECU and a new tune so its upwards of $1000, not really worth it IMO.

[doug@frankenturbo.com]

190whp on a Mustang are not "low numbers". They're good numbers. Especially for summer. That's a nicely set up K04 Passat.

[Weehe]

190whp on a Mustang are not "low numbers". They're good numbers. Especially for summer. That's a nicely set up K04 Passat.

I realize it is summer, but it was only 65-70 in the shop. And as for it being a mustang, would it really read that low? The mechanic there has a K03 that put down 205whp. (or i might be way off with thinking that is a lot for a K03)

[Weehe]

Ok I am waiting on autozone to get there rental compression tester back and still looking for someone with vag com, but I do have a question about my motor and trans mounts.

They are still the original ones (I'm assuming since i bought the car with 120k on it). The only reason I bring it up is the engine seemed to move a lot while it was on the dyno. However, the idle is smooth and the mechanic told me they are fine since the idle is fine. I am not saying he is wrong, he know way more than me, but could these cause an increased drivetrain loss? Or am I way off here.

[BoostedGLS0218]

One thing you should also keep in mind the mustang dyno is often referred to as the 'heart breaker dyno' meaning the numbers you see will be lower than almost any other dyno run.
And Doug is right. You should be proud of those numbers on that dyno in the summer.
And it also never hurts to do a tune up. Just a simple oil change sometimes could net you a few lost hp

[Weehe]

One thing you should also keep in mind the mustang dyno is often referred to as the 'heart breaker dyno' meaning the numbers you see will be lower than almost any other dyno run.
And Doug is right. You should be proud of those numbers on that dyno in the summer.
And it also never hurts to do a tune up. Just a simple oil change sometimes could net you a few lost hp

I realize the mustang dyno might read low, but I would think I should probably have more power then the mechanic and his K03. I change my oil probably more than i should, and had changed in royal purple 2 days before. I normally use mobile1 but figured if royal is better might as well this one time.

[groggory]

I realize the mustang dyno might read low, but I would think I should probably have more power then the mechanic and his K03. I change my oil probably more than i should, and had changed in royal purple 2 days before. I normally use mobile1 but figured if royal is better might as well this one time.

So your mechanic and his k03 dyno'd higher than you on the same dyno on the same day?

You guys should do some back to back comparisons to figure out if this is really a problem or not. That is, if you're willing to fork over the extra money for more dyno time.

[Weehe]

So your mechanic and his k03 dyno'd higher than you on the same dyno on the same day?

You guys should do some back to back comparisons to figure out if this is really a problem or not. That is, if you're willing to fork over the extra money for more dyno time.

Not the same day, but was close in temp. I realize dyno runs can change greatly between days, but this seems more than just a few degrees in temp. I would go back since he has vag com, but I moved to San Antonio from Chicago area just last week. I had always wanted to get it dynoed, just ended up being right before I moved.

[ExtremeVR6]

Do you have a baseline dyno? The real purpose for a dyno is to measure a change... Without a baseline you have no point of reference apart from general spec ... And with the range of how well people take care of their cars, gas that is used, how strong the engine was to start with, etc.... There can be a wide range of power levels that is only increased when mods are done.

Also, you really can't put to much stock on the mechanics results compared to yours without any details of how he's setup his car...

The best thing you can do is goto a non-mustang dyno and dyno again. Keep in mind though that all dynos are calibrated and can be miscalibrated. For the mods you have it doesn't seem like you're at risk of being a dyno-queen... Be careful not to put to much emphasis on those numbers... Well, on the wrong numbers... If your air/fuel ratio is staying healthy or isn't, that is something to pay attention to... As long as your fueling stays good you can push the boost higher... Having a wideband or vagcom will allow you to test that on your own without needing to pay for dyno time...

[Weehe]

Do you have a baseline dyno? The real purpose for a dyno is to measure a change... Without a baseline you have no point of reference apart from general spec ... And with the range of how well people take care of their cars, gas that is used, how strong the engine was to start with, etc.... There can be a wide range of power levels that is only increased when mods are done.

Also, you really can't put to much stock on the mechanics results compared to yours without any details of how he's setup his car...

The best thing you can do is goto a non-mustang dyno and dyno again. Keep in mind though that all dynos are calibrated and can be miscalibrated. For the mods you have it doesn't seem like you're at risk of being a dyno-queen... Be careful not to put to much emphasis on those numbers... Well, on the wrong numbers... If your air/fuel ratio is staying healthy or isn't, that is something to pay attention to... As long as your fueling stays good you can push the boost higher... Having a wideband or vagcom will allow you to test that on your own without needing to pay for dyno time...

I don't have a baseline, so there is a chance it would have been low from the start, will never know. Was more looking for insight on what, if anything, could be wrong to yield the low values. I'm working on getting vag-com since that seems the only way to get info that will actually help.

[Rod Ratio]

I don't have a baseline, so there is a chance it would have been low from the start, will never know. Was more looking for insight on what, if anything, could be wrong to yield the low values. I'm working on getting vag-com since that seems the only way to get info that will actually help.

I doubt there's anything "wrong". As stated; your #'s equate to approximately 218 whp on a dynojet, which is about par for the course given your mods.

[scoobydoo41787]

I just did the wideband swap on my atw.. because i'm going big turbo eventually.. You don't need a whole new harness.. Just add 3 wires to your harness. Get a wideband ecu and the wideband o2 all in all with the 550cc injectors I might be $800 into it.. Ecu(found an already tuned one for $375, sent it out for immo defeat and update software $100, $125 for the o2, then my injectors were $250.. I'm running a Gonzo tune... Solid software and the 2 step is fun.. A guy I know here is running a Gonzo k03s tune hitting upwards of 25psi not sure on his power.. But it pulled an apr chipped k03s

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ion-Done-Easy!

This is the write up I used.. The wire you add for the vvt it gets grounded to the purge solenoid by the air box(or you won't get fuel trim adaptations and you'll get a CEL)) other than that its very simple

[Rod Ratio]

Yep.. wideband would be the next logical step IMO

[scoobydoo41787]

this is a good step by step on how to pull apart your ecu plugs and how to add the wires there..
http://www.raceline-ws.com/sites/def...%20V10.1.5.pdf

[Weehe]

I just did the wideband swap on my atw.. because i'm going big turbo eventually.. You don't need a whole new harness.. Just add 3 wires to your harness. Get a wideband ecu and the wideband o2 all in all with the 550cc injectors I might be $800 into it.. Ecu(found an already tuned one for $375, sent it out for immo defeat and update software $100, $125 for the o2, then my injectors were $250.. I'm running a Gonzo tune... Solid software and the 2 step is fun.. A guy I know here is running a Gonzo k03s tune hitting upwards of 25psi not sure on his power.. But it pulled an apr chipped k03s

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ion-Done-Easy!

This is the write up I used.. The wire you add for the vvt it gets grounded to the purge solenoid by the air box(or you won't get fuel trim adaptations and you'll get a CEL)) other than that its very simple

this is a good step by step on how to pull apart your ecu plugs and how to add the wires there..
http://www.raceline-ws.com/sites/def...%20V10.1.5.pdf

If it wasn't 800 or more I might consider it, but I am at the point I don't want to waste more on upgrades. I was more looking for advice on what could possibly be wrong with the car that could be fixed or cleaned. Also I only have a K04, not sure a wide band would give me that much more, I know for BT it's a different story.

[scoobydoo41787]

I'd check your dv... a lot of things I've heard is even the 710n from a tt will mushroom and blow the rubber diaphragm out at 18-20 psi especially k04 boost...