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    Thread: FYI - 2005.5-2007 Timing Chain Issues

    1. Member A1an's Avatar
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      07-19-2012 12:22 PM #26
      Apparently it was me being paranoid. Had a tech look at it who assured me what I was hearing is normal.

    2. Member mhjett's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 12:52 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
      Riddle me this...when the tensioner starts going bad just how loud is the sound? Is it louder than the normal valvetrain noise on the 2.5?

      Truthfully I've been hearing some noise from the upper timing chain area for the last 5-10k miles but I can't say for sure if it has been there before that. I had the car in for an oil seal, oil housing, and water pump maybe 3-4k ago. While they had the car I had them go through the entire car with a fine tooth comb and it came away with a clean bill of health. Still, I'm getting really paranoid now that I am at the end of my extended warranty.

      Here is a short cell phone vid. You can hear the timing chain noise more towards the last half. It isn't horribly loud...about the same volume as the valve train if not maybe a tiny bit louder.

      http://s43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...=VIDEO0065.mp4
      Sounds pretty normal to me; probably just valvetrain noise or injector noise or both.

      So far, it seems there's a decent number of people with '05.5-07s that have chain issues; what there isn't a lot of is information on here about which parts exactly fail and in what fashion. Someone did a DIY recently in a full chain job, but I'm not sure what he used for the cam/crank locks, etc. OP's info is great if, in fact, you can fix noisy chains by simply re-doing the upper one.
      Last edited by mhjett; 07-22-2012 at 12:55 AM.
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    3. Member classicjetta's Avatar
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      07-25-2012 08:50 AM #28
      Anybody know if it's worth preemptively replacing the timing chain tensioner to prevent any jumping in the first place?

    4. 07-25-2012 09:35 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by classicjetta View Post
      Anybody know if it's worth preemptively replacing the timing chain tensioner to prevent any jumping in the first place?
      Its worth replaceing it, shortly after you hear the chain starting to go bad. $700 for the upperchain, or you will need a new motor. Not to mention the value you will lose on your car with having a motor that is not the original.

    5. 07-25-2012 09:40 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by mhjett View Post
      Sounds pretty normal to me; probably just valve train noise or injector noise or both.

      So far, it seems there's a decent number of people with '05.5-07s that have chain issues; what there isn't a lot of is information on here about which parts exactly fail and in what fashion. Someone did a DIY recently in a full chain job, but I'm not sure what he used for the cam/crank locks, etc. OP's info is great if, in fact, you can fix noisy chains by simply re-doing the upper one.
      A low growling noise and marbles are the indicators of the a upper timing chain problem. It is caused by the upper chain guides wearing down and bending slightly. This causes the chain to stretch, hit the metal casing of the timming chain, thus creating the marble sound.

      While the 2.5s are typically noisy, there is not alot of "Depth" to the sound. while when the chain is going out, there is depth to the chain noise.

      lastly, you ECU will throw a code when the chain is stretched. however not a CEL, intill near the very end. Typically it will be a cam adjustment forward code.

      Hope that helps.

    6. Member truwagen's Avatar
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      07-25-2012 11:22 AM #31
      Any engine gurus here know if there's something else (e.g., timing?) that can be logged with vagcom that might indicate a stretched or stretching timing chain? Just brainstorming here...
      why so serious?

    7. Member vwbrvr6's Avatar
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      07-25-2012 06:22 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by trudub View Post
      Any engine gurus here know if there's something else (e.g., timing?) that can be logged with vagcom that might indicate a stretched or stretching timing chain? Just brainstorming here...
      The chains are not really stretching. The chain guides are wearing and losing tension causing the chains to slack. It is the guides that are the problem, at least that was the issue with the Vr6.
      VW's from my past.
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    8. 07-25-2012 11:21 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by vwbrvr6 View Post
      The chains are not really stretching. The chain guides are wearing and losing tension causing the chains to slack. It is the guides that are the problem, at least that was the issue with the Vr6.
      To my knowledge its the same issue with the 2.5

    9. Banner Advertiser nothing-leaves-stock's Avatar
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      07-27-2012 08:39 AM #34
      we just did one in the shop yesterday.
      noise happened a few times but not consistant. had a code ONCE for cam timing.
      we had the customer tow the car in.
      dealer wanted $4200 to fix it!!!!!!!!

      the chains do NOT strech. the tensioners wear and lose oil pressure, the chanis CAN skip on the cam gears at that point.

      also a note....if you rotate the motor AT ALL backwards...the chains WILL skip over the gears and be out of time. we did it when the motor was open JUST to check and see if the internet myth was true...it is 100% true.

      the tensioners are NOT racketing like the R32 or VR6, where if they lose pressure they don't get slack.

      we upgraded to the newer year numbers and replaced EVERYTHING in there(but the cam gears-not needed)

      motor was saved, new parts are in and working great. no more noises. no more codes....and NO $4200 bill at the dealer!
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    10. Member mhjett's Avatar
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      07-27-2012 08:49 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by nothing-leaves-stock View Post
      ...

      also a note....if you rotate the motor AT ALL backwards...the chains WILL skip over the gears and be out of time. we did it when the motor was open JUST to check and see if the internet myth was true...it is 100% true.

      ...
      This is interesting - there was a post either in here or the MKV forum from a guy who's son's car died and he tried to push start it and somehow the engine apparently got spun backwards and tweaked his timing. The OP questioned whether it was a timing chain failure but it came out that it was more likely due to the push starting than to any parts failure.
      2008 VW Jetta SE 2.5 [current]
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    11. Banner Advertiser nothing-leaves-stock's Avatar
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      07-27-2012 09:05 AM #36
      dave(head tech) did it to see what would happen...it skipped.
      then he showed me....skipped again.
      proved it in person to me!
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    12. Member Fudgey Memory's Avatar
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      07-28-2012 08:01 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by nothing-leaves-stock View Post

      motor was saved, new parts are in and working great. no more noises. no more codes....and NO $4200 bill at the dealer!
      What was the bill?
      “Some say that he’s a CIA experiment that went wrong, and that he only eats cheese. All we know is he’s not the Stig, but he is the Stig’s American Cousin.”

    13. Junior Member
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      07-28-2012 10:36 AM #38
      I have a question about the timing chain tensioner. Is there any way it can be replaced with the post 2008 tensioner using the original chain? What I am getting at is can the upper tensioner be replaced without removing the chain?

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      07-28-2012 01:58 PM #39
      So are u saying I can just get the upper tensioners replaced?

    15. 07-29-2012 06:47 PM #40
      Technically its possible just to replace the tensioner, but good luck finding someone with the cam lockers whose going to just replace the tensioner.

      Cough up the extra $200 for the chain and the few other parts, and call it a day.

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      07-29-2012 07:14 PM #41
      Do you really need to lock the cam if you aren't removing the chain? I guess really the question is can it be done without removing really anything other then the tensioner and guides?

    17. Banner Advertiser nothing-leaves-stock's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 08:43 AM #42
      you MUST remove the chains to do the tensioners. and you can NOT do the chains without the cam tool.. impossible.

      why cheap out? do it right and your safe and done.

      We replace EVERYTHING in there...2 chains, tenioners, guids, rear main seal, coolant seals, coolant flush, oil change, sealer cleaner etc
      $1699 parts and labor.
      dealer was $2800 crazy....
      www.nothingleavesstock.com
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    18. Member classicjetta's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 09:10 AM #43
      Good to know what a reasonable shop charges.

    19. Banner Advertiser nothing-leaves-stock's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 10:19 AM #44
      customer got the car towed in here form the dealer. they told me the dealer said "you had a noise, and a cam timing code. you need a $4500-5000 repair to fix it."

      they did have a noise ONCE on start up, which is the start of the issue and a cam code. but the car started and had no noise after 5 seconds. we did the chanisn and all...NO noise, no code, no damage, no $4500-5000 bill.

      so if you hear the noise once..STOP, get it towed and fixed OR you will get a bigger build. and the new parts are the udated parts and you'll be ok for a long time.
      www.nothingleavesstock.com
      NLS's full line of parts on our online store!http://nothingleavesstock.com/online...=0&sort=normal
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    20. Member A1an's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 10:36 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by mhjett View Post
      This is interesting - there was a post either in here or the MKV forum from a guy who's son's car died and he tried to push start it and somehow the engine apparently got spun backwards and tweaked his timing. The OP questioned whether it was a timing chain failure but it came out that it was more likely due to the push starting than to any parts failure.
      I remember the thread and I think that car rolled backwards down a hill when they tried to push start, causing the problem.



      Quote Originally Posted by nothing-leaves-stock View Post
      customer got the car towed in here form the dealer. they told me the dealer said "you had a noise, and a cam timing code. you need a $4500-5000 repair to fix it."

      they did have a noise ONCE on start up, which is the start of the issue and a cam code. but the car started and had no noise after 5 seconds. we did the chanisn and all...NO noise, no code, no damage, no $4500-5000 bill.

      so if you hear the noise once..STOP, get it towed and fixed OR you will get a bigger build. and the new parts are the udated parts and you'll be ok for a long time.
      Too bad you guys aren't down here in FL. I have a hard time trusting some of the european shops in my area.

    21. Member truwagen's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 11:20 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by nothing-leaves-stock View Post
      you MUST remove the chains to do the tensioners. and you can NOT do the chains without the cam tool.. impossible.

      why cheap out? do it right and your safe and done.

      We replace EVERYTHING in there...2 chains, tenioners, guids, rear main seal, coolant seals, coolant flush, oil change, sealer cleaner etc
      $1699 parts and labor.
      dealer was $2800 crazy....
      The OP says that only the upper chain/tensioners/guides need replaced. Sounds like you replaced both upper and lower chains (and did you pull the engine)? Curious to hear your thoughts on just replacing the upper chain and associated hardware.
      why so serious?

    22. Banner Advertiser nothing-leaves-stock's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 11:23 AM #47
      why would you cheap out and only fix ONE part of the issue? the lower tensioner is the SAME design as the upper...so it can do the SAME issue. if we are doing a 2.5L chain job...we are doing EVERY part in there, once and done and SAFE and RIGHT with the newer parts

      pull the trans to do the job NOT the motor.
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    23. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 12:04 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by A1an View Post
      Too bad you guys aren't down here in FL. I have a hard time trusting some of the european shops in my area.
      lol, if you ever need any help, let me know.

      i know a couple of shops in tampa, gainesville, orlando, lakeland and the south...

    24. 08-02-2012 12:08 AM #49
      Are all 200.5-2007 models susceptible to this timing chain issue? From my observation from on this technical forum, the main affected model is the Jetta. Has this happened to anyone with a Rabbit?

    25. Member Shtbox's Avatar
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      08-02-2012 08:04 AM #50
      quick question. when this cam code comes up, does it illuminate the CEL at all? or is the code stored with no CEL?
      coolWATER

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