Semi-Auto Sub-Compact Polymer Handgun
Steel Frame (Non-1911)
Mouse Guns (LCP, etc).
“The analogy we use around here sometimes, and I think is accurate, is if a JV team puts on Lakers uniforms that doesn't make them Kobe Bryant" ~ Obama on ISIS
We are JIMP
Glock 23 off duty with a blackhawk serpa holster, S&W M&P 40 on duty. Both weapons fit in the blackhawk holster which help. **** winchester ranger ammo in every weapon I've owned. No issues here. I have been looking for a small framed off duty weapon. I'd like to retain 40cal but in a smaller frame.
Also, because of the way the mechanism works, there have been several instances of officers shooting themselves or other negligent discharges due to the trigger finger going into the trigger. You can see how that can happen.
I love my two Serpa holsters, but just wanted to pass along the info.
726 bottles of beer on the wall.
Now, in light of what happened in Co, I'm wondering if my G19 (that i've carried since 2008) is strong enough for a daily CCW or if I should switch to G23/G27 in a 40.
What defensive loads does everyone use in their 9mm?
Current: 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi 4x4, 2013 BMW 650GS Sertao, BMW 1150RT
Gone: 2010 Audi S4; 2008 GTI; 2007 Audi A6; 2004 Audi allroad 2.7T; 2001 Audi A6 2.7T; 1999.5 Mk4 Jetta VR6; 1991 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 4x4
Last edited by Foxtrot; 07-30-2012 at 09:41 PM.
"2 tone paint jobs are for wusses.. I rock 4 tone"
'96 Harlequin Golf 2.0-8v, '12 Fiat 500 Abarth 1.4t-16v, '91 Jetta GLi 2.0-16v, '90 Passat GL 2.0-16v
'70 Dart Swinger 340-4v, '70 Chevy C-10 250-1v, '91 Ninja 600R
Thinking about stepping my G19 up to a Glock 23 or a Glock 27 (.40 sw versus 9mm).
I honestly think that in 99% of cases the 9mm will be able to handle anything that arises but in rare cases of a nut wearing a full bullet proof uniform the 9mm would feel like a pesky paintball gun. I think, although the 40 wouldn't penetrate, it would take a lot more wind out of you if you 15 shots showered all over you with that as opposed to a 9mm. I don't see many people carrying much longer than a 9mm... Rationale everyone?
Pics for reference. I this 19.
You don't usually get 15 shots with a .40 only with 9mm or smaller. That said, any hand gun ammo is not going to take down a determined assailant in armor. You have a chance of knocking him off balance but that's about it. At least from the videos I have seen of the big time shootouts against armies of police using AR-15s even.
I agree. That's where I'm torn... My Glock 19 (9mm) hold 15+1 and the Glock 23 (40 Sw) has an identical frame size and also holds 15+1
Guess I need to go out there and shoot it and see how I like it.
I should get a weight comparison.
Guys, there is little need to go dumping your handguns in the search for .40's. I'd particularly avoid the .40 Glocks (just about the only Glocks people ever had problems with).
Stick with what you can shoot well. Any decent soft body armour will stop everything up to a .44 mag. Even a "puny" .380 auto etc. will put a serious hurt on someone wearing armor. Put plenty of 9mm into someone wearing that soft armour, break some ribs, knock em down...shoot em in the head.
Regarding 9mm, stick with Gold Sabers or Speer Gold Dots in the 124-grain size. I also occasionally like to run Hornady Critical Defense, but it's light recoil and isn't on the level of Gold Dots. Hornady has recently released Critical Duty as well in 9mm and .40 etc. That's a hell of a round. However it's made to penetrate, so maybe not the best self-defense round.
I carried Gold Dots, Rangers, or Golden Sabers in my P239 9mm... seems to be more than adequate assuming you put the rounds where it counts.
Don't worry about the caliber - worry about practice and becoming familiar with your firearm.
Last edited by NoDubJustYet; 07-31-2012 at 06:54 PM.
And, good effective defense ammunition is another HUGE factor. Much of the nonsense .45 vs. 9mm arguments stem from the military, which by international accord (Hague?) must use ball-ammunition, so as to not cause undue suffering (ie. you die slower...).
As a civilian you are not restricted. Buy quality defensive ammunition. Federal Hydrashoks, Speer Gold Dots, Winchester Ranger JHP stuff, Hornady Critical Defense, etc.
Ammunition can make a gigantic difference. While ball ammunition may kill someone dead, you up your chances by about 70% with a quality hollow-point or defensive round.
This is a pretty popular image which is posted around on many sites. It shows the shockingly similar result of ballistics gelatin tests between the "normal" handgun rounds, when firing a decent JHP round.
*Note: You'll see that the 147 grain 9mm is about the worst of the bunch shown. This seems to match up with what a lot of very knowledgeable folks say. At 147 grains you're starting to slow the 9mm a bit too much. Seems like those in the know find the 124 grain stuff to be the "sweet point" of the 9mm cartridge.
While there is a difference, it's not "OMG, nothing will stop like a .45!" nonsense. .380, 9mm, and .45 have all been around for over 100 years and have killed, I'd imagine...millions of people. Definitely use whatever you can handle quickly, confidently, and shoot accurately under stress. And if you run several guns at about the same proficiency, stick with whatever has more ammo.