Will buff right out...

[unreal]

ANA/AJX 767-300ER hard landing in Narita a few days back.

[ATL_Av8r]

Now THAT is good metal buckling!

[J-Tim]

Yikes!!!

[Tornado2dr]

Now THAT is good metal buckling!

Holy crap!

Logic tells me that the plane is probably still flyable, but based on aircraft stress and longevity standards in the industry, is the airframe beneath just a hunk of aluminum scrap right now?

[spockcat]

Just needs a little bondo and some fresh paint!

[kerridwen]

Hull loss / write off?

[Elbows]

This'll be flying in a 3rd world shortly...

[unreal]

Hull loss / write off?

This has happened a number of times to the 767-300; as far as I know, most have returned to service.

[Brendan@bwalkauto]

This has happened a number of times to the 767-300; as far as I know, most have returned to service.

Speaking from first hand experience?

[chrismkay3]

Hull loss / write off?

probably not; however, it will almost certainly be a lengthy and very expensive repair

pilots, how did this even happen?

[stratclub]

A lot of work but is repairable. They will shore up the aircraft and remove the skins on the top side that wrinkled, splice in stringer sections were stringers were buckled and then inspect for damage from the nose gear back to the center wing. The repaired aircraft will be as strong or stronger than than the aircraft was before the incident.

[stratclub]

probably not; however, it will almost certainly be a lengthy and very expensive repair

pilots, how did this even happen?

Not a pilot but I believe Narita can be vary tough to land at sometime due to crosswinds. IIRC Fed-Ex lost an aircraft there when trying to land.

[yz1337]

Go arounds are free folks, remember that.

[J-Tim]

Go arounds are free folks, remember that.

Not when you are a 6 feet off the ground.

[unreal]

You absolutely can (and should) go around after that kind of bounce. It'll touch back down as the motors spool, but that's not a big deal; you'll avoid the nose slam, which is undoubtedly what caused the damage.

Big thing about the -300 is not adding forward pressure, even on a normal touchdown. You'll get a slight pitch up moment as the spoilers come out, but that only requires you to let out some back pressure. Landing the nose generally requires light back pressure, nothing forward of neutral. Strong forward pressure can cause forward fuselage damage, even after touching the mains down normally.

[yz1337]

Not when you are a 6 feet off the ground.

back to ground school and basic airmanship with you

[joness0154]

back to ground school and basic airmanship with you

Yup. A go around/aborted landing can be initiated at any time.

Practicing wheel landings for my tail wheel endorsement found me going around a few times after touching down and having a wicked bounce

I've also heard of airliners shooting CAT II/III approaches, going missed, and having the wheels touch down due to the low minimums and spool up/reaction time.

[unreal]

I've also heard of airliners shooting CAT II/III approaches, going missed, and having the wheels touch down due to the low minimums and spool up/reaction time.

Very true. That's why we train to commit to a go around. Once you hit the "go" switches, you're taking it back in the air, even if you touch down momentarily.

[Gern_Blanston]

...Landing the nose generally requires light back pressure, nothing forward of neutral.

In the crazy French contraption that I fly, you release all pressure on the stick on touchdown and the 'derotation program' eases in a little down elevator and brings the nose down with a thunk.
Very strange. It's smoother if you ease in a little forward stick after the mains make contact, then pull back a teenie weenie bit just as the nosewheel touches. Silly fly-by-wire airplane.

And yeah, once you decide to go around, you commit and go.

[ATL_Av8r]

In the crazy French contraption that I fly, you release all pressure on the stick on touchdown and the 'derotation program' eases in a little down elevator and brings the nose down with a thunk.
Very strange. It's smoother if you ease in a little forward stick after the mains make contact, then pull back a teenie weenie bit just as the nosewheel touches. Silly fly-by-wire airplane.

And yeah, once you decide to go around, you commit and go.

If you try to override the computer does it just give up and let you?

[yz1337]

If you try to override the computer does it just give up and let you?

I see it

[J-Tim]

back to ground school and basic airmanship with you

My point is that there is so much inertia is that a massive crosswind like that will slam you to the ground before you have a chance to:

1. Apply the full throttle
2. Have the fans spin up and give you enough thrust to get up again

[yz1337]

My point is that there is so much inertia is that a massive crosswind like that will slam you to the ground before you have a chance to:

1. Apply the full throttle
2. Have the fans spin up and give you enough thrust to get up again

thats great, and I agree. That has no bearing here though as the entire issue was pilot induced when he slammed the yoke forward in desperation rather than calmly add power, allow the mains to touch and continue on the go around. The mains can handle a fairly massive impact with little to no damage. Pushing the nose forward in an attempt to get on the ground can have catastrophic consequences, as seen here. He's lucky he just bent some metal.

Lets put it this way...if he went around but touched down and something on the mains broke, he'd get razzed a lot at work, and probably be flying in a couple of days, case you're right, winds can just screw you. After this though, if he still has a job, i guarantee he has a simulator date for a EP ride/checkride (I dunno what the civilian side guys do/call it), and is sitting nowhere but a jump seat.

[NHDUBN#2]

What would happen if this was one of the new generation of planes with the Carbon Composite structures? (777)

[Danza.]

787.

You will buckle the skin and stringers lol

[.LSinLV.]

787.

You will buckle the skin and stringers lol

carbon fiber prefers to shatter/splinter rather than buckle.

[NHDUBN#2]

carbon fiber prefers to shatter/splinter rather than buckle.

I guess thats my point. It would be a instant write off. Would it not?

[Danza.]

carbon fiber prefers to shatter/splinter rather than buckle.

The stress causing failure is due to buckling. The failure mode is different yes.

It would be repairable.

[.LSinLV.]

The stress causing failure is due to buckling. The failure mode is different yes.

It would be repairable.

I didn't say it wasn't repairable...but I am sure to costs and QAA would be extensive.

[unreal]

In the crazy French contraption that I fly, you release all pressure on the stick on touchdown and the 'derotation program' eases in a little down elevator and brings the nose down with a thunk.
Very strange. It's smoother if you ease in a little forward stick after the mains make contact, then pull back a teenie weenie bit just as the nosewheel touches. Silly fly-by-wire airplane.

And yeah, once you decide to go around, you commit and go.

Crazy French contraption.

The 777 might do something similar, but I like my old manual Boeing. I was telling a couple of our company 777 pilots how everything in the 767 is connected to something via cables and hydraulic actuators. Hell, even the thrust levers connect to a hydromechanical fuel control; they feel beefy and take a good push to move. I think they were drooling a little bit. Real airplanes for the win!

My point is that there is so much inertia is that a massive crosswind like that will slam you to the ground before you have a chance to:

1. Apply the full throttle
2. Have the fans spin up and give you enough thrust to get up again

It'll still do it, no problem. The engines will only go back to approach idle anyway, which means they're ready to spool up in a hurry if necessary. In fact, adding go around thrust will more than likely spare the nose, as the pitching moment from the underslung engines will bring the nose back up. That pitching moment can be rather impressive if you're not ready for it, so protecting the tail is paramount if you've touched back down.

Anyway, Japan can get pretty dicey. I landed the aircraft type in question in Japan a few months back with a 35-40 knot crosswind and moderate turbulence down final; I was spring loaded to go around, but the turbulence settled out enough to put it down safely. The airplane is very stable, but the physics work the same as anything else. Just a bad day for this crew.

[twilk]

Actually that totally depends on which model 767. Most have fadec engines, thus no cable to the fuel control. We have cables on our cf6-80a2 motors but t hats it. The rest are fadec engines.

[ATL_Av8r]

I guess thats my point. It would be a instant write off. Would it not?

That and liquefying all the passengers thanks to the billions of carbon shards

[unreal]

Actually that totally depends on which model 767. Most have fadec engines, thus no cable to the fuel control. We have cables on our cf6-80a2 motors but t hats it. The rest are fadec engines.

Busted. I was thinking about our non-FADEC jets.

We have 7 767s, 2 of which are non-FADEC. Also, our RB211 757 is non-FADEC. Definitely prefer the FADEC from a pilot's perspective.

[Jettavr666]

A lot of work but is repairable. They will shore up the aircraft and remove the skins on the top side that wrinkled, splice in stringer sections were stringers were buckled and then inspect for damage from the nose gear back to the center wing. The repaired aircraft will be as strong or stronger than than the aircraft was before the incident.

I was reading about this on airliners.net, and the consensus was the same, yes, it will be repaired. While this kind of damage doesnt happen all the time, it has happened before, and has been repaired unless the airframe is very old. Im sure boeings go team will be on there way out to work on it soon.

[Buckeye(OH)]

Wow. It is so freaking cool to have actual 7x7 pilots on this board. I am a total airplane nerd. I will be working on my private pilots license in the next year or so.

Can't wait.