BMW X1 Now on BMW USA Website - NO MANUAL OPTION WTFBBQ!!!!!

[Preppy]

Odd that Canada has had this car for the last year, and not the US.

My observations:

a) Manual - who cares? Are any of you manual humpers going to actually buy this thing?
b) It is grotesque
c) Even BMW can't hide the fact that this car is a marketing ploy to get everyone and their asian monthers into one
d) You can lease one of these for the same as a V6 RAV4 Limited
e) Check out the fit and finish, cheap cheap cheap cheap
f) You think 3 series drivers are self righteous dicks?

[Preppy]

Or compared to the 269 hp RAV4...

I think 240hp is perfectly fine, especially for the RWD version - but it's not going to breathtaking with AWD at the weight of this car (3,674 lbs from the German BMW web site; 0-100km/h 6.5 s).



Well, that one also has 258 torques - that helps...

At any rate, I agree it is pretty ugly, but some may like it.

Agree on all counts.

How much power do these things really need?
I'm glad they "only" have 240hp... I wouldn't want these cars, in the hands of the drivers I see around town, with 300hp. Scary.

I have a 2.0T AWD Tiguan, it's quick enough to do anything anyone would need to do in a real world scenario.

[mookieblaylock]

friend had an x5 manual, it sucked. Trucks get autos cuz it works better

[2VWatatime]

And to the rest of you --- settle down. There is a whole lot of weird rage in this thread.

From the guy who posts "NO MANUAL OPTION WTFBBQ!!!!!".

Riiiiiight. Where's that passive/aggressive thread in OT again?

[Wheelwright]

Putting aside the secondary (yet hotly contested in this thread) issues of minute car control the manual transmission simply engages the driver more. Let's analyze the number of steps and the corresponding difficulty (and therefore subsequent reward) of executing them:

In auto/manumatic you:
1) flip the switch/paddle etc: and you're done, boring because it is not challenging

In manual transmission you:
1) press the clutch quickly and the right amount (too deep may be too slow, too shallow and you won't shift at all)
2) find the proper slot in H-pattern gearbox where to place the next gear and slide the lever over quickly without hiccups which sounds easy but isn't
3) smoothly and quickly start depressing the clutch while at the same time mentally calculating and modulating the proper amount of revs using your right foot
4) slow-down in the top range of clutch travel (you should feel or at least mentally imagine the engagement point) and reengage the clutch while the revs reach the optimal point for this gear, engine load etc:

As with any task the amount of derived satisfaction and joy is directly proportional to associated difficulty and challenge. With auto/manumatic a chimpanzee can do it blindly. However with a manual only the elite driver can do it quickly and smoothly and it takes months or even years of practice.

[Obin Robinson]

friend had an x5 manual, it sucked. Trucks get autos cuz it works better

I've driven plenty of trucks in all different sizes with both manuals and autos: even some big ones like Ivecos, Nissan Diesels, Toyota Diesels, Fords, and others. I liked the manuals because I didn't have to worry about my foot slipping and then having the truck crash into an aircraft.

obin

[2VWatatime]

Putting aside the secondary (yet hotly contested in this thread) issues of minute car control the manual air/fuel mix and spark advance simply engages the driver more. Let's analyze the number of steps and the corresponding difficulty (and therefore subsequent reward) of executing them:

In any late 20th/early 21st century car:
1) start ignition/manipulate throttle

In manual air/fuel mix and spark advance you:
1) push or pull the appropriate lever/knob to adjust air flow
2) push or pull the appropriate lever/knob to adjust fuel flow
3) adapt both to conditions (uphill, downhill, load, etc.)
4) fine tune engine operation by adjusting spark to match fuel/air/load conditions to preferred driving conditions, performance, or economy of operation

As with any task the amount of derived satisfaction and joy is directly proportional to associated difficulty and challenge. With air, fuel, and spark controlled a chimpanzee can do it blindly. However with all of these under manual control only the elite driver can do it quickly and smoothly and it takes months or even years of practice.

FIFY.

[6cylVWguy]

I'm glad they "only" have 240hp... I wouldn't want these cars, in the hands of the drivers I see around town, with 300hp. Scary.

You better write BMW USA and tell them not to bring over the X1 xDrive35i, which does have 300hp!

Not sure why anyone cares about the X1 being offered in a manual. I've driven a first gen X3 with a manual and it wasn't anything particularly amazing. And I'm guess that since no one in the US bought the manual version of that vehicle, the decision on whether to bring over the X1 with a manual was pretty easy.

[SchnellFowVay]

From the guy who posts "NO MANUAL OPTION WTFBBQ!!!!!".

Riiiiiight. Where's that passive/aggressive thread in OT again?

I was being tongue-in-cheek, hence the "WTFBBQ" and the "!!!!!."

But in all seriousness, I have a hard time believing that so many of you would prefer auto over manual in an X1. Isn't htere something to be said for just enjoying rowing through the gears?

I just got back from a honeymoon all over Europe and nearby countries. I saw a ton of X1's, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of them had a manual transmission.

My wife and I like to go hiking, and where we live (Nevada) many mountains, etc., have long gravel paths you need to drive to get there. Our 1-series coupe and convertible can't hack it. But a manual X1, with sport package and a tuned 2.0t, seems like it would be the perfect compromise.

[mookieblaylock]

But a manual X1, with sport package and a tuned 2.0t, seems like it would be the perfect compromise.

yea but when that gravel turns to even mild rock crawling you will be wishing for the torque converter

[SchnellFowVay]

yea but when that gravel turns to even mild rock crawling you will be wishing for the torque converter

Granted, for rock crawling, the X1 is not the solution. But there is a big difference between being able to drive on paths marked (4wd only), and rock crawling.

[2VWatatime]

Don't confuse "realizing that BMW made the right call" with "so many of you would prefer auto over manual".
Oh, and "countries near Europe" = you drove into Asia? MidEast?... and even across the continent auto trans % of sales is climbing rapidly.

[SchnellFowVay]

Don't confuse "realizing that BMW made the right call" with "so many of you would prefer auto over manual".
Oh, and "countries near Europe" = you drove into Asia? MidEast?... and even across the continent auto trans % of sales is climbing rapidly.

Well, let's see. I started in England (UK), went from there to Venice (Italy) and Verona (Italy), then to Kotor (Montenegro), then to Athens, Mykonos, and Santorini (Greece), then to Istanbul (Turkey, but Europe and Asia on either side of the Bospherus), then to some other city in Turkey (don't recall the name), and then back to the states.

I thought I summarized it pretty well

And yes, I probably saw 6-8 X1's during that time. All of which were manual. Some even had a really cool cloth interior with colored patterned designs. I liked it at least.

**EDIT - I was also in Croatia for a day.

***EDIT EDIT -- who's confusing what? I never started this thread to discuss the acumen of BMW's market planners. I was just merely dsicussing the fact there is no manual available.

[Professor Gascan]

yes. it takes away part of the driving experience. you are giving up an ability and letting the car decide when you want to do something rather than have the driver remain in control. of course if you don't know the difference between a refrigerator and a car then it doesn't matter.

obin

What part am I giving up when I have an automatic with manual mode that will let me hit the rev-limiter? The ability to pull a money shift and blow the engine?


Anyone know if the X1 35i is coming to Canada? We only have the 28i up here at the moment. I might be able to look past the heinousness if it has the 35i engine.

[DamienR8]

Right? This "OMGZ NO MANUAL" thing in here is starting to get ridiculous..

+1000 Seriously

A manual in this relatively heavy, sluggish, SUV? Is is really going to alter the driving experience for the better? Is it really going to make you feel so "connected" to this SUV? Is this going to make or break a sale.... Jesus Christ.

There are fewer and fewer cars out there nowadays that I would buy with a manual and that's because the transmission alters the personality of the car significantly, it heightens the driving experience for me and the specifications on the car (weight - hp/l - power delivery) works hand in hand with such a transmission.

...This SUV meets none of them.

[SchnellFowVay]

+1000 Seriously

A manual in this relatively heavy, sluggish, SUV? Is is really going to alter the driving experience for the better? Is it really going to make you feel so "connected" to this SUV? Is this going to make or break a sale.... Jesus Christ.

There are fewer and fewer cars out there nowadays that I would buy with a manual and that's because the transmission alters the personality of the car significantly, it heightens the driving experience for me and the specifications on the car (weight - hp/l - power delivery) works hand in hand with such a transmission.

...This SUV meets none of them.

None of this is even remotely true.

1) For 99.99% of potential buyers, granted, the manual will not deter them. But I will not buy one (and neither will my wife) without manual. We both like driving stick, and we spend too much time in the car driving something we don't want to.

2) The car is NOT sluggish. Stock it goes 0-60 in ~6.2 seconds. Add a tune, and you are into the 5 second range.


3) The car is not that heavy. It's significantly lighter than the 5 series, and is only a few hundred pounds heavier than a 3 series.

[Obin Robinson]

None of this is even remotely true.

1) For 99.99% of potential buyers, granted, the manual will not deter them. But I will not buy one (and neither will my wife) without manual. We both like driving stick, and we spend too much time in the car driving something we don't want to.

2) The car is NOT sluggish. Stock it goes 0-60 in ~6.2 seconds. Add a tune, and you are into the 5 second range.


3) The car is not that heavy. It's significantly lighter than the 5 series, and is only a few hundred pounds heavier than a 3 series.

Ditto. The Kia Soul+ beat out several competitors when we were car shopping because they did not have a manual transmission vehicle in stock (or available). The manual also delivers better fuel economy and lower long term maintenance costs. I've driven many vehicles the size of the X1 in both auto and manual. The manual was much nicer on slippery roads or when going up hills.

obin

[Turbio!]

.... seems like it would be the perfect compromise.

In my opinion, there's no such thing as a perfect compromise, just choices about what you want to be disappointed by. The perfect solution to your problem is to not compromise, and buy a cheap used SUV for offroad adventures and keep your 1-series for on-road driving.

[AudiVwMeister]

[Numbersix]

I'd love to see what the take rate was on the old X3 with a manual.

I briefly entertained the idea of a post-refresh 1st gen X3 with a manual, as a friend has one and likes it. In 6 weeks of looking, I found exactly one for sale within a two state radius.

I drove it. It wasn't fun.

Maybe the X1 would be better...maybe.

[SchnellFowVay]

In my opinion, there's no such thing as a perfect compromise, just choices about what you want to be disappointed by. The perfect solution to your problem is to not compromise, and buy a cheap used SUV for offroad adventures and keep your 1-series for on-road driving.

I agree. But we are going to have a child sooner than later, we need a car with four-doors.

We would like to keep the cost in the $30-32k range, but I might stretch a few thousand higher for an X1. MAYBE we would consider spending the $45K+ on the new 3-series Wagon wtih AWD (assuming there is a manual available).

But in reality, we will probably end up wtih a countryman, simply because manual, 4-doors, AWD, sporty, good on gas, and can be had nicely equiped for ~$30-32k.

[SchnellFowVay]

I'd love to see what the take rate was on the old X3 with a manual.

I briefly entertained the idea of a post-refresh X3 with a manual, as a friend has one and likes it. In 6 weeks of looking, I found exactly one for sale within a two state radius.

I drove it. It wasn't fun.

Maybe the X1 would be better...maybe.

I guess the better question is whether the X1 is worth the ~$5k premium over the japanese "cute utes," i.e. the CR-V, etc.

Obviously, if you compare it to an standard 3-series, you are going to come away disappointed.

[Turbio!]

It bears mention that the Mini only has about 6 inches of ground clearance - it isn't really much of a crossover.

[SchnellFowVay]

It bears mention that the Mini only has about 6 inches of ground clearance - it isn't really much of a crossover.

I am aware. But it gets around just fine. We drove in a friend's Countryman on some fairly rugged paths heading out to some trails near Mount Charlestone. The thing drove like a champ.

I am starting to have a real fascination with the quasi-new category of small performance SUVs. 5 years ago I would have scoffed. But there is something to be said for sitting up high (As I age, getting down into my lowered 135i isn't the most fun thing), but having the utility of an SUV, or at least some of it.

Again, this will not be my auto-cross car. BUt it will be something for the wife to drive mostly, that can be driven in a spirited manner, but that also can go on desert trails and has room for a car seat. That's all.

[Numbersix]

And, from what I gather, the Cooper drivetrain may be a but overmatched for the Countryman. I wonder if Automobile's issue with the clutch failure at ~19k is a one-off or not? They seem to think that the 1.6L is light on torque for the Countryman AWD application, making step-off from a stop difficult without significant clutch slippage.

[SchnellFowVay]

And, from what I gather, the Cooper drivetrain may be a but overmatched for the Countryman. I wonder if Automobile's issue with the clutch failure at ~19k is a one-off or not? They seem to think that the 1.6L is light on torque for the Countryman AWD application, making step-off from a stop difficult without significant clutch slippage.

This is a more interesting issue. I have heard that hte engine just generally feels a little "small" for the car, but I had not heard of the premature clutch failure. You may be right re: clutch slippage.

But either way, 19k is astonishingly quick. It sounds more like one of the Automobile editors took the car and was doing clutch-drop launches. Or simply that it had a defective clutch.

[DamienR8]

None of this is even remotely true.

1) For 99.99% of potential buyers, granted, the manual will not deter them. But I will not buy one (and neither will my wife) without manual. We both like driving stick, and we spend too much time in the car driving something we don't want to.

2) The car is NOT sluggish. Stock it goes 0-60 in ~6.2 seconds. Add a tune, and you are into the 5 second range.


3) The car is not that heavy. It's significantly lighter than the 5 series, and is only a few hundred pounds heavier than a 3 series.

You are the .01 percentile and unfortunately, you mean nothing to BMW. The automatic 8-speed will satisfy every requirement for efficiency and power delivery while eclipsing that of any 6-speed manual they could have offered. The sluggish and heavy remarks may be off base to some extent I must admit, when comparing it to say, the Q3 (not to it's lighter Japanese rivals).

Rowing your own gears yes, is pleasing but not having a manual is not a significant disadvantage in this car. If Porsche decided to remove the manual option from it's boxer line, would you be as aggravated?...NO you would be much more furious. Really, it's not a big deal, even for you.

[Mike0105]

I don't see what all the hate is about on this car. I actually don't find it to be all that bad looking, it's a small cross over...none of them are particularly appealing in my opinion.

I can care less if it's auto only. We'll look at one for my wife and she doesn't have the slightest interest in driving a manual
Mike

[hardcore4life]

Got a link for that? Because that is something I do not believe.


Doubt it as they don't use Euros on the island.

http://bmw.hu/hu_rb/hu/newvehicles/_...sta/E84_x1.pdf

if you can read it

[Wheelwright]

X1 looks pretty good. Its proportions are somewhat between wagon and crossover/CUV which is appealing to me as I tend to gravitate towards wagons. And kudos to BMW for resisting the current trend to reduce greenhouse area at the expense of all-around visibility. It is not a bad vehicle but to me adding a manual version would make it a real contender if I were in the market for something offroady yet fun-to-drive.

[hardcore4life]

United States of America = No options allowed