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    Thread: Apr stage 2 acceleration hiccup

    1. Member
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      06-28-2012 05:15 PM #1
      Hello guys, I KNOW that there has to be information on this as I have seen it mentioned randomly by people but Im having trouble finding it. I have a 2012 GLI with 2500 miles on it. It has APR stage 2, a 3 inch catless downpipe and carbonio intake. I believe that this started happening with the APR stage 2 flash but am not 100 percent certain.

      At around 2200-2700 RPM's my car seems to have two hiccups occur. If you accelerate slowly through this RPM range, my car will have two stutters in power which you can hear through the intake exhaling.

      I have never had any codes from this, however I have read that these hiccups can often be cylinder misfires. I don't know very much about cars, and I don't know if what I am experiencing are cylinder misfires as I have also read that 3 inch downpipes can cause the engine to experience these "hiccups."

      Can anyone shed a little more light on this for me? Is it safe for me to drive the car like this without it incurring damage? Is it not really anything more than a stutter? What course of action should I take to remedy it? If need be I wouldnt mind removing the flash, however I am really wondering if this issue, is in fact an issue.

      Thanks!
      Last edited by GLI525; 06-28-2012 at 05:26 PM.

    2. Member ViRtUaLheretic's Avatar
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      06-28-2012 05:24 PM #2
      If you can reproduce this at will you should see if you can get ahold of a local guy with a vagcom cable and scan for codes and run some logs
      :APR -stage 2 :BSH -Intake,Mounts,RSB,TB Pipe :Whiteline -A.L.K. :Porsche 17Z BBK
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    3. Junior Member shucks's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 12:38 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by GLI525 View Post
      Hello guys, I KNOW that there has to be information on this as I have seen it mentioned randomly by people but Im having trouble finding it. I have a 2012 GLI with 2500 miles on it. It has APR stage 2, a 3 inch catless downpipe and carbonio intake. I believe that this started happening with the APR stage 2 flash but am not 100 percent certain.

      At around 2200-2700 RPM's my car seems to have two hiccups occur. If you accelerate slowly through this RPM range, my car will have two stutters in power which you can hear through the intake exhaling.

      I have never had any codes from this, however I have read that these hiccups can often be cylinder misfires. I don't know very much about cars, and I don't know if what I am experiencing are cylinder misfires as I have also read that 3 inch downpipes can cause the engine to experience these "hiccups."

      Can anyone shed a little more light on this for me? Is it safe for me to drive the car like this without it incurring damage? Is it not really anything more than a stutter? What course of action should I take to remedy it? If need be I wouldnt mind removing the flash, however I am really wondering if this issue, is in fact an issue.

      Thanks!
      Only 2 times with a stage 2 chip from APR I've had a problem similar to yours. 1: I used ****ty plugs. 2: I tried e85. Definitely get a Round 1 log done and get that checked out by APR. Is it possible you're just losing traction? Our cars don't come with the ability to turn off ESC and when it kicks in, your power pretty much ****s the bucket for a moment.

      Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

    4. Member Schrottplatzer's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 05:18 PM #4
      There are a few of us on here with 2012 GLIs having issues. From what I've been able to fnid, it's a different engine management system from the Golfs, GTIs, and Rs, and totally new this year why? I have no idea.

      Run the logs they ask for and pray for a response. It's been a few weeks since I first posted my thread; hoping a solution had already been found for my case. Yours is different.

      Before a forum-wizard gets on here: There have been no documented problems with the coil packs on this platform for this model year. If the software was the only thing that you changed, then log the data and wait for a fix before throwing parts (and money and variables) into the mix. Good luck.

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      06-30-2012 08:53 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Schrottplatzer View Post
      Before a forum-wizard gets on here: There have been no documented problems with the coil packs on this platform for this model year. If the software was the only thing that you changed, then log the data and wait for a fix before throwing parts (and money and variables) into the mix. Good luck.
      It's not if the coilpacks will give but "when" being the keyword. Also, are you telling me that you did not swap out the coilpacks, plugs, or injectors on the problematic cylinders? The thread in question:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...software/page2

      We are trying to help you, and it seems that you are ignoring all the troubleshooting steps we are offering.

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      07-01-2012 07:36 AM #6
      I have not replaced anything yet seeing as I'm only at 2500 miles. It is definitely not loss of traction, as I have the button anyways, but I can replicate the issue every single time I go through the rpm range. I'm going to get the logs run, but is it alright for the car for me to drive like this while I figure it it out, or am I doing real damage at all? Thanks guys, I hope to get some logs run soon. I'm really new to this, so exactly what logs am I trying to get so that I can diagnose this?

    7. Member onevrsix's Avatar
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      07-02-2012 01:37 PM #7
      I had/have the same issue with my Uni Stage II; It'll do it intermittently. usually if I roll into the power it'll be nice and smooth but if I punch it I"ll get the hesitation.

      I have OEM plugs (issue was made worse by using NGK plugs)

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      07-02-2012 02:31 PM #8
      I am experiencing a very similar issue. A noticeable hesitation right at 2500 rpms in every gear, but most noticeable in 2nd gear. It gets worse with hot weather. It generally only happens under partial throttle. With WOT, no hesitation. I have an 09 CC with an APR stage I tune and Carbonio. I drove with the tune and intake for a long time before I developed this problem. I can still detect it in stock, but it is much more subtle.

      My car is actually in the shop today for this issue. My trusted VW mechanic drove the car while logging everything. He did detect misfires so that is what the hesitations are. I have never gotten a CEL for this. Since I started getting this, here is what I have had done and replaced all to no avail: intake manifold, all injectors, plugs, and coils and a carbon build up clean by hand and a realignment of the throttle body.

      Today, my mechanic is going to replace the mass airflow sensor. I asked him about re-gapping the plugs as some have suggested and he was pretty sure that that wasn't the issue.

      If you ever manage to resolve your issue, pls post. I am increasingly hopeless about ever getting this resolved.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

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      07-02-2012 03:01 PM #9
      I have this same hesitation since I bought the car. It isn't detrimental, but I do notice it between 2k-3k rpms. It goes away on WOT. I am starting to think it is a hardware issue and not software. I have read multiple people having issues stock and modified. I am not modified at all and not doing mods until 10k+ on the odometer.

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      07-02-2012 08:03 PM #10
      Just picked up my car and had the air mass sensor replaced, but not because it was throwing a CEL. Given everything else that was replaced, the mechanic said this is the next thing to try. I haven't driven it enough yet to know if it is fixed. I have found I have to drive the car for like a week to really know as initially the hesitation is gone and then it starts to come back. I will keep everyone updated.

      If this doesn't fix it, the next thing the mechanic wants to try is replacing the evaporator purge valve. He said that those valves are sometimes overactive on these cars and that it could cause symptoms like I am getting.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

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      07-02-2012 08:52 PM #11
      keep us updated. Im going to try and get some logs soon.

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      07-03-2012 01:07 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by sh{}e View Post
      I have this same hesitation since I bought the car. It isn't detrimental, but I do notice it between 2k-3k rpms. It goes away on WOT. I am starting to think it is a hardware issue and not software. I have read multiple people having issues stock and modified. I am not modified at all and not doing mods until 10k+ on the odometer.
      My exact issue. Completely stock car here with

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      07-05-2012 06:11 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by irongrey View Post
      Just picked up my car and had the air mass sensor replaced, but not because it was throwing a CEL. Given everything else that was replaced, the mechanic said this is the next thing to try. I haven't driven it enough yet to know if it is fixed. I have found I have to drive the car for like a week to really know as initially the hesitation is gone and then it starts to come back. I will keep everyone updated.

      If this doesn't fix it, the next thing the mechanic wants to try is replacing the evaporator purge valve. He said that those valves are sometimes overactive on these cars and that it could cause symptoms like I am getting.
      As I have experienced in the past, I had like a day of really smooth driving after getting the new air mass sensor. Then it happened again. I have had the hiccup many times since then. Back to the shop on Monday.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

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      07-09-2012 05:07 PM #14
      I think the 2700RPM Hiccup is related to the transition that occurs at that RPM, when the tumble flaps in the intake manifold change position, and there is also a change in the injection strategy.

    15. 07-09-2012 06:40 PM #15
      Not that this helps but i had some nasty "hesitation" issues with my 2.0t FSI. I tried many things, in the end converting almost everything back to stock noticed that adding in a brand new PCV setup fixed everything (catch can made issue worse). With PCV replace car felt sooooo much better. But since this is a TSI forum that is why I said not that this helps.

      But keep in mind that it can be stupid little things causing your issues. Also DSG trannys can make this hesitation more miserable. I just advise try to fix it one thing at a time. Looks for obvious fixes like the intake flap and others that people mention. It could be as simple as a boost leak and DV issue. Don;t throw too much random $$$ at the problem, but sometimes that is what it takes.

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      07-11-2012 09:54 PM #16
      So as I said, replacing the air mass sensor did nothing. Per my mechanic, I plugged the evaporator purge valve hose which would eliminate any problems from the valve. But the hesitation continues so i guess my evap purge valve is fine. My mechanic is stumped and doesn't know what to do next.

      I've been reading over on the GTI forum and reading about a lot of hesitation issues, some similar and some not. But very few instances where the problem was fixed.

      My next thought is to get the car reflashed back to stock and see if the problem persists. If so, I'll probably put the stock intake back on and try again.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

    17. Member onevrsix's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 09:56 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by irongrey View Post
      So as I said, replacing the air mass sensor did nothing. Per my mechanic, I plugged the evaporator purge valve hose which would eliminate any problems from the valve. But the hesitation continues so i guess my evap purge valve is fine. My mechanic is stumped and doesn't know what to do next.

      I've been reading over on the GTI forum and reading about a lot of hesitation issues, some similar and some not. But very few instances where the problem was fixed.

      My next thought is to get the car reflashed back to stock and see if the problem persists. If so, I'll probably put the stock intake back on and try again.
      The issue will go away if you flash back to stock but i can almost assure you it's not caused by the tune. Mine use to be really REALLY bad; my first thought was spark plugs...Search my old threads, I had NGK's in which, while everyone else swore by them, my Uni Stage two didn't play nice. I regapped them to I think .28 from .34? can't remember and the hesitation got better, didn't go away but got better. I then replaced them with OEM Bosch, this eliminated the issue all together (but at the same time I had replaced my OEM DV with the latest revision DV). My car wasn't making as much power with that DV so a few months later I switched to the AWE DV and the hesitations came back, again, very mild vs. the original.

      I also found that every time I'd disconnect the battery there would be a brief period where the hesitation would be pretty abrupt but eventually smooth out to what I was use to. Honestly, it's barely noticeable for me.

      Again, search my old threads

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      07-13-2012 02:09 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by onevrsix View Post
      The issue will go away if you flash back to stock but i can almost assure you it's not caused by the tune. Mine use to be really REALLY bad; my first thought was spark plugs...Search my old threads, I had NGK's in which, while everyone else swore by them, my Uni Stage two didn't play nice. I regapped them to I think .28 from .34? can't remember and the hesitation got better, didn't go away but got better. I then replaced them with OEM Bosch, this eliminated the issue all together (but at the same time I had replaced my OEM DV with the latest revision DV). My car wasn't making as much power with that DV so a few months later I switched to the AWE DV and the hesitations came back, again, very mild vs. the original.

      I also found that every time I'd disconnect the battery there would be a brief period where the hesitation would be pretty abrupt but eventually smooth out to what I was use to. Honestly, it's barely noticeable for me.

      Again, search my old threads
      Thanks for the suggestions, but I think we have different issues. You are at a Stage II tune and I have read about a lot of hesitation issues with Stage II, though they usually seem to be more between 3 and 4K rpms. Where was your hesitation? Also you say in a previous post that rolling into the throttle it is smooth but if you punch it you get the hesitation. It is the opposite for me. Only under light throttle do I get hesitations. WOT is fine. Also, with a Stage II tune, regapping the plugs seems more critical than just a Stage I tune.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

    19. Member dingchavez's Avatar
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      07-16-2012 11:26 PM #19
      I think I now have this issue in 3rd / 4th gear. I will go WOT on large full gear pulls, starting from about 2k, and that's when it'll bog or pulsate. It is a very obnoxious feeling, and Ive only began to notice it after installing my boost gauge. I am APR stage 1 w intake and catback. Has anyone found any solutions or got codes?

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      07-17-2012 07:46 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by dingchavez View Post
      I think I now have this issue in 3rd / 4th gear. I will go WOT on large full gear pulls, starting from about 2k, and that's when it'll bog or pulsate. It is a very obnoxious feeling, and Ive only began to notice it after installing my boost gauge. I am APR stage 1 w intake and catback. Has anyone found any solutions or got codes?
      Can you describe your hesitation more, under what conditions it happens? This may be a separate issue. As far as I can tell, this thread is about a hesitation at around 25-27k rpms under light throttle (and tends to get worse in warm weather). Not the pulsation issue or hesitations above 3k (though who knows if maybe they are related).
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

    21. Member bordercitymadman's Avatar
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      07-25-2012 06:10 PM #21
      Hey irongrey, i did that realignment routine from the stage 1 tune, and I'll be damn if it fixed the hesitation, at least for now, and its crazy hot outside today. Odd, since i thought that routine was not needed in the cc.

      Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
      2010 VW CC Sport (Manual) | Stage 1 APR Tune | St Coil-overs | VW 19" Concept Wheels | Neuspeed SSK

    22. n00b
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      07-27-2012 07:56 AM #22
      one victim again... R.I.P

      change back original intake or other products, or see this link to modify your carbonio...

      http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37389

      try to open a big hole in Carbonio!!!
      Last edited by dc0953812327; 07-27-2012 at 08:05 AM.

    23. Member
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      07-31-2012 08:15 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by bordercitymadman View Post
      Hey irongrey, i did that realignment routine from the stage 1 tune, and I'll be damn if it fixed the hesitation, at least for now, and its crazy hot outside today. Odd, since i thought that routine was not needed in the cc.

      Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
      Wow. I'll give it a try, though I do believe my mechanic recently did a throttle body adaptation to no avail. Let me know if your hesitation comes back.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

    24. Member bordercitymadman's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 11:50 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by irongrey View Post
      Wow. I'll give it a try, though I do believe my mechanic recently did a throttle body adaptation to no avail. Let me know if your hesitation comes back.
      It's back today,

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      2010 VW CC Sport (Manual) | Stage 1 APR Tune | St Coil-overs | VW 19" Concept Wheels | Neuspeed SSK

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      08-01-2012 03:59 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by bordercitymadman View Post
      It's back today,

      Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
      I did the adaptation today and no change. No surprise.
      2009 2.0T, 6MT, Iron Grey Metallic, Tinted Windows, Blue Tooth, APR Stage I, VW DG Sport Springs, Neuspeed RSB
      Audio setup: Focal 165 KRX2 in the front (crossovers removed) powered by Rockford Fosgate T400-4 (one channel per speaker); ARC Audio KAR 265 in the rear powered by Alpine PDX-4.100 (bridged); 8" 250W Powered Bazooka Sub; RF 360.2 Digital Signal Processor

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