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    Thread: Chris Harris talks about car ... E46 M3 may be the most complete package

    1. Moderator Krazee's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 01:30 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      He's some guy who drives cars on interwebs videos and The Car Lounge humps his leg. He loves BMWs and Porsches, and tends to hate Audis, claiming they have a "numb" feel.

      He also got really giddy while driving a pre-production FR-S, which is part of the motivation behind the Car Lounge's obscene fascination with an underpowered Japanese car (which, admittedly, I also really like).

      That's really all you need to know.
      Having watched his review of the new RS4 (and ultimate comparison to the C63), I did not get the impression he hates Audis. He liked the B5 RS4, loved the B6/7 RS4; he thought is was just perfect in every way, allowing him to question "Why buy an M3?" In the end, the C63 won out simply on the basis of less tech for tech's sake, which I agree with.

      The B5 RS4 was good because it just was - aside from a crashing suspension and slightly numb steering, it was functional without an electronic nannies and choices. The B6/7 RS4 sorted out the steering, the brakes and the suspension, and was straight forward. The current RS4 is too tech-oriented. A multitude of choices for steering and throttle response - why?

      I agree with his assessment of the RS4, and then his choice of the C63.
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    2. Vortex Media Group Staff Tim@VMG's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:01 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      what has he raced in?
      Some of the VLN races in Europe, I believe, and I *think* the Nurburgring 24 hours.

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    3. Member konigwheels's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:04 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post

      That's really all you need to know.
      That's far from all you need to know, it sounds like "I'm biased against him and the CL, and he doesn't like the cars I do. Boo hoo".

      He's a real guy that loves cars, can drive very well, and will give a honest opinion of the driving experience, telling you how the car should be driven and what to expect when driving it. He enjoys his job a lot, which I appreciate, and his enthusiasm makes his reviews that much better. His opinion of the FRS is one shared by every enthusiast who isnt a blind fool. Its a small front engine, rear drive, sports coupe thats inexpensive and not dangerously fast. Whats not to love? Even if you hate the thing, you can't deny what it's about. Fun driving.

      Chris Harris and Tiff Needell are two of my favorite reviewers. They both convey the magic that some of us feel when driving exiting cars.

    4. 06-29-2012 02:16 PM #29
      yeah E46 M3 is next... but I want ZCP and 6-speed.
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    5. Member Tuneman7's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:18 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by epbrown View Post
      To quote Yoda, there is another. The S54-engined Z3 and Z4 M Coupe make more sense as the years pass and fewer people interested in the nice E46 M3s will use them as daily drivers.

      As for Chris Harris' opinion, I disagree with him: The E90 M3 with 6-speed manual is the most complete package.
      Yeah, the Z4M in particular is a go to alternative those are much easier to find in good condition. Though I think at the same time, in many cases those cars are a bit of a love it or hate it deal due to some of the quirkiness in design. In typical Bangle fashion they can be somewhat polarizing.

      The E90,92 M3 is the most complete, most capable, and probably most compelling model to date. But in the similar way that people call the 997 and 991 better cars but the 930, 964, and 993 better 911's I think the same is sort of true for the M3.

    6. Member hugoaswho's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:34 PM #31
      fail

      VANOS Issue
      Subframe issue
      SMG Pump failure
      Older Technology
      Harsher ride
      no interior volume
      The inspection I and II's are 1100 and 1400 respectively and are called for every 30 and 60k
      Oil changes are 100, just in parts.
      Bushings and such wear out quickly
      tires get about 8-10k miles out of a set of rears and roughly double that from the fronts.
      Lower Control Arm Bushing Failure
      Rear Differential Mount Failure
      Tie Rod Wear
      Worn or Blown Shocks and Struts
      Worn or Failed Swaybar Endlinks
      Torn or Cracked Transmission Mounts
      Water Pump Failure
      Cracked Radiator Necks
      Electric Fan Failures
      Fan Clutch Failure
      Power Steering Lines

      on and on and on!!!

      average maintenance cost to maintain is 5k per year!!! YOU MIGHT AS WELL BUY A 911!!!

      http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m3/200...-bmw-335i.html

      http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?...d=25&Itemid=55

      http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=347219

    7. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:41 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by SilverSLC View Post
      Some of the VLN races in Europe, I believe, and I *think* the Nurburgring 24 hours.

      -Tim
      so he's your average club racer...i see.

    8. Member RacingManiac's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:43 PM #33
      Not having owned or driven one, I like the E90 M3 better...simply because it is a 4 door...Although something like a B7 or B8 RS4 is even more "complete" since wagon = better....

    9. Member hmontaq's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:45 PM #34
      IMHO The E46 is the most unattractive M3 ever...
      bags are for boobs

    10. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 02:49 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by hmontaq View Post
      IMHO The E46 is the most unattractive M3 ever...
      E36 without a doubt.

    11. Member dmorrow's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 03:31 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by hugoaswho View Post
      fail

      VANOS Issue
      Subframe issue
      SMG Pump failure
      Older Technology
      Harsher ride
      no interior volume
      The inspection I and II's are 1100 and 1400 respectively and are called for every 30 and 60k
      Oil changes are 100, just in parts.
      Bushings and such wear out quickly
      tires get about 8-10k miles out of a set of rears and roughly double that from the fronts.
      Lower Control Arm Bushing Failure
      Rear Differential Mount Failure
      Tie Rod Wear
      Worn or Blown Shocks and Struts
      Worn or Failed Swaybar Endlinks
      Torn or Cracked Transmission Mounts
      Water Pump Failure
      Cracked Radiator Necks
      Electric Fan Failures
      Fan Clutch Failure
      Power Steering Lines

      on and on and on!!!

      average maintenance cost to maintain is 5k per year!!! YOU MIGHT AS WELL BUY A 911!!!

      http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m3/200...-bmw-335i.html

      http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?...d=25&Itemid=55

      http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=347219
      Harsh ride, interior volume? You are correct that you should expect higher than average maintenance costs but no where near $5k a year. Bushings, shocks, if you buy a 7 year old car with high mileage I would expect those also. Others happen, not the end of the world but you should have money set aside for problems.

      Seems like the Insde Line video you posted also selects the M3 as the winner. Did you watch it? Watch starting at 3:20-til the end. Seems to say the same thing the Chris Harris video says and odd you posted it.

      Mine has 32k miles on it and I plan on driving it less than 4k miles per year so I think maintenance will be minimal, I figure one oil change, tires no more than every 4 years, and put aside $800?? a year (a guess, hope for less) for other items?

    12. 06-29-2012 03:42 PM #37
      so who cares about the video....did he just say we are getting the new rs3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    13. Member Tuneman7's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 03:46 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by HalvieCuw View Post
      so who cares about the video....did he just say we are getting the new rs3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Yes, more importantly apparently we had some kind of choice in one or the other and the majority chose the RS3 over the RS4. Must've been TLCers being polled, obscure hatches trump all.

    14. 06-29-2012 03:46 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      E36 without a doubt.

      I think not... the E36 M3 had more details copied by others than any of the other generations.

      M3 mirrors
      M3 red/clear tail lights
      M3 splitter
      M3 twist side skirts

      no, it didn't have a widebody, but then it didn't really need it when it could stuff 245's front and back easily.

      Last edited by danny_16v; 06-29-2012 at 03:50 PM.
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    15. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 03:50 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by hmontaq View Post
      IMHO The E46 is the most unattractive M3 ever...
      I loved it when it first came out.

      But it has not aged well -- particularly the earlier models with the smaller wheels with the tiny lip. The E30 has a timeless design. The E36 has some real character to it and has great proportions. The E92 still looks modern and great.

      I am inclined to agree on the E46, particularly early models.

      *Edit: This is the model I am referring to when I saw the plane-jane early models have not aged well:
      Last edited by SchnellFowVay; 06-29-2012 at 03:54 PM.
      I TCL.

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      06-29-2012 03:51 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by hugoaswho View Post
      fail

      VANOS Issue
      Subframe issue
      SMG Pump failure
      Older Technology
      Harsher ride
      no interior volume
      The inspection I and II's are 1100 and 1400 respectively and are called for every 30 and 60k
      Oil changes are 100, just in parts.
      Bushings and such wear out quickly
      tires get about 8-10k miles out of a set of rears and roughly double that from the fronts.
      Lower Control Arm Bushing Failure
      Rear Differential Mount Failure
      Tie Rod Wear
      Worn or Blown Shocks and Struts
      Worn or Failed Swaybar Endlinks
      Torn or Cracked Transmission Mounts
      Water Pump Failure
      Cracked Radiator Necks
      Electric Fan Failures
      Fan Clutch Failure
      Power Steering Lines

      on and on and on!!!

      average maintenance cost to maintain is 5k per year!!! YOU MIGHT AS WELL BUY A 911!!!

      http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m3/200...-bmw-335i.html

      http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?...d=25&Itemid=55

      http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=347219
      This post made my S4 sound like a dream.

    17. Member Tuneman7's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 03:57 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      The E30 has a timeless design. The E36 has some real character to it and has great proportions.
      I don't really think so. Granted the E30 has an army on here dedicated to telling us how wonderful it is but imo it looks like a brick that was immediately dated the second its successor was unveiled. Same deal with the E36.

      The new E92 is definitely a good looking car but at the same time it is a rather bulky looking thing and the new one is going to be even bigger. It's hard to say what kind of impression I'll have of it 10 years down the line.

    18. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 03:59 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      I think not... the E36 M3 had more details copied by others than any of the other generations.

      M3 mirrors
      M3 red/clear tail lights
      M3 splitter
      M3 twist side skirts

      no, it didn't have a widebody, but then it didn't really need it when it could stuff 245's front and back easily.

      i think they're ugly imo

    19. 06-29-2012 04:04 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Tuneman7 View Post
      Yes, more importantly apparently we had some kind of choice in one or the other and the majority chose the RS3 over the RS4. Must've been TLCers being polled, obscure hatches trump all.
      if they would have done something more interesting with the powertrain I would be somewhat interested in the rs4, but with what it turned out to be....not so much...

      We are getting the rs3 hatch? Thought for sure if we got it that it would be in sedan form. Don't care either way, for sure my next car.

    20. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 05:01 PM #45
      @ Whoever posted all those issues... Most of those aren't exclusive to the M3 (bushings???), the subframe was fixed by dealers, and VANOS issues really aren't as widespread as you seem to think. As for tires, well, yeah, it's a RWD car with summer tires on it. Older tech.. not really a negative IMO. I'd prefer older, simpler tech over newer, more sophisticated tech any day. Wait till it fails and you probly would too. Harsher ride... harsher than what? It's a sports coupe on coils, it's not going to ride like a vette on magnetorheological shocks, or a family sedan. Also $5k/year is a laugh. Ask me how much I've spent on maintenance in the last year and a half, I'll wait...

      As for looks, I couldn't disagree more. I think it's aged extremely extremely well. I'll whore mine out:



      That really comes down to personal preference but I think the E30 is the most beautiful, followed by the E46, E9x and E36. E36 just doesn't do it for me for some reason, although I realize it's probably one of the most fun cars to drive.

      Anyhow... is it the most complete package? Not sure, I could think of other packages that rival it, personally. I just know its the most complete car I've ever personally owned or driven.

    21. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 05:03 PM #46
      I just can't reconcile his opinion in this video (or the FR-S/86 review, or a few others), and this article:

      http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Mon...is-pants-ducks
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    22. Vortex Media Group Staff Tim@VMG's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 05:09 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      so he's your average club racer...i see.

      And which series do you race in? How much track experience do you have?

      You can piss on him all you want to, but Harris is a longtime, well respected journalist who generally knows what he's talking about.

      -Tim
      The artist formerly known as SilverSLC
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    23. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 05:32 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by SilverSLC View Post
      And which series do you race in? How much track experience do you have?

      You can piss on him all you want to, but Harris is a longtime, well respected journalist who generally knows what he's talking about.

      -Tim
      i just dont get why his opinion matters so much.

    24. Member TetsuoShima's Avatar
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      06-29-2012 05:42 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      i just dont get why his opinion matters so much.
      Well, you don't have to listen to him obviously but you can't deny that he has extensive experience with cars and knows what he's talking about. Just like you'd trust a Dr. when they diagnose you with something. You don't have to listen to them or respect their diagnoses but chances are, they know a hell of a lot more about what they're dealing with than you.

    25. 06-29-2012 05:44 PM #50
      As for reliability, I think Consumer Report actually rates the E46 M3 as one of the most reliable used car on the market.

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