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    Thread: How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread.

    1. Member JGWarner's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 10:05 AM #36
      So much win, in this thread.

    2. Member
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      08-28-2012 11:21 AM #37
      Thanks Jon & Steve!

      It's nice being able to actually enjoy it all summer...now that fall is around the corner I should be getting back to the body work. I have a hood and fender lined up. I may even take it off the road for a few months during winter.

      First, I need to install my new wire harness w/ relays and Fog Light Switch...even though it looks good - I'd prefer them to be functional

      Been on the hunt for a nice set of 15" wheels that are from the 80s...slim pickings - but not in a rush.
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-12-2012 05:37 PM #38
      hahaha.. love the 'Brooklyn Style' jacking technique. good work my man. thank you for sharing this.

    4. Member doppelfaust's Avatar
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      10-12-2012 06:05 PM #39
      I was going to bump this thread today but ERROL beat me to it, thanks man!

    5. Member mike in SC's Avatar
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      10-12-2012 06:07 PM #40
      I used the same front struts (KYB GR2) when I replaced the suspension last month.

      Are the rear shock specific for the fox, or did you order them for a different model VW?
      I had to order rear shocks for a jetta or a golf because the wagon units weren't available.

      Nice work on the wagon. I took mine from South Carolina to Florida about 5-6 times for extended road trips. It's really a good traveling car.
      Where's the Gem? You'll find it. Everbody does.

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      10-12-2012 06:21 PM #41
      thanks guys!

      I actually used Audi 4000 Fronts (Part# 365008) and MK2 Rears (Part #343191)

      I need to get the KYB lower spring seats installed - right now I am sagging a bit and bumps are a bit rough. I need that annoying $50 socket tho - someone have one I can borrow?

      I haven't done much in terms of the 'build' lately - got to enjoy driving it a bunch all summer. It is great on the highways. I'm looking forward to installing the rear sway bar - just need to buy a few quality steal bits to get through the beam. Then I want to take it to Harriman State Park - which I've been putting off.
      Last edited by redone17; 10-12-2012 at 06:25 PM.
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-12-2012 06:30 PM #42
      Unfortunately my selector shaft seal was leaking. Not having the right tools (or knowledge) when we did the swap - we opted to leave it out. Old oil was over 2 quarts - figured it was fine.



      It was only seeping a very little bit - but enough to piss me off.

      I got some Permatex 82099 Spray Sealant and put a couple of coats. Made a bit of a mess and found bits of this crap on my arms for days. BUT it seems to be holding!

      Last edited by redone17; 10-13-2012 at 08:02 AM.
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-12-2012 06:53 PM #43
      Are the 4k front inserts different than the Fox? I'm surprised you guys like the GR2's. I've got them on all corners on my Fox and don't really like them. I wouldn't say they're too harsh (in a nice firm way).. more it seems they don't really dampen anything and I'm always banging around like it's a solid suspension (the backs anyway).


      What tool are you referring to? I probably have it.
      I really suck at smog.

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      10-12-2012 07:04 PM #44
      That is the same "feel" I have - I am not 100% psyched about it (in fact the Lady HATES them and wishes she had two sports bras on every time we take it anywhere) - but they were cheap. I wish I sprung (no pun intended) for the Bilsteins or Koni - but that will have to be my priority when these sh*t the bed.

      This tool: http://techtonicstuning.com/main/ind...oducts_id=1685
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

    10. Member
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      10-12-2012 07:07 PM #45
      Ah, instead of that, I use an offset 22mm wrench + allen key. Good ol' Harbor Freight. I'll bring them over sometime.

      http://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece...set-32042.html


      Christ, $50 for the TT tool.
      I really suck at smog.

    11. Member mike in SC's Avatar
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      10-12-2012 09:10 PM #46
      [QUOTE=redone17;79328299]That is the same "feel" I have - I am not 100% psyched about it (in fact the Lady HATES them and wishes she had two sports bras on every time we take it anywhere) - but they were cheap. I wish I sprung (no pun intended) for the Bilsteins or Koni - but that will have to be my priority when these sh*t the bed.

      I got mine b/c they were cheap, but not too cheap. I'll buy the spendy parts when these are shot.
      Where's the Gem? You'll find it. Everbody does.

    12. Member doppelfaust's Avatar
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      10-12-2012 09:16 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by redone17 View Post
      That is the same "feel" I have - I am not 100% psyched about it (in fact the Lady HATES them and wishes she had two sports bras on every time we take it anywhere)
      And now we know why Chris chose the GR2s...

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      10-12-2012 10:10 PM #48
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-13-2012 07:51 AM #49
      Also, I decided to put to use the Digi cylinder head I have collecting dust. The G60 head potentially needs more work than I can afford at the moment. I want to put to use the 270 cam, adjustable sprocket and lightened intermediate shaft.

      I'm going to look into getting the head cleaned and resurfaced (as well as pressure tested) and maybe getting the intake ported.

      While I am doing this I would really like to put in a new oil pan gasket. I'm not leaking a lot - again more like seeping (never have to top off or anything). Just gets messy down there.

      It was suggested I get a ECS Oil Pan Baffle With Gasket for an MK3. Anyone have experience with these? Seems like a great idea. (Thanks Steve): http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...-2.0/ES260120/

      I have head gasket, injector seals and cups, and have to go through a gasket set I have to identify what I'm missing for this swap.

      Where can I find a good rubber valve cover gasket? All the ones I have on hand are some sort of cork material.

      Do I use a CIS-e valve cover or the Digifant one?

      Any suggestions or impressions with using this type of head and a swap in general would be appreciated.

      Cheers,
      Chris
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

    15. Member mike in SC's Avatar
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      10-13-2012 12:22 PM #50
      I used the update kit (second choice from top) when I replaced the VC gasket. You'll have to replace the studs in the head with the new parts, but it's worth the effort. No leaks, and the rubber make a better seal than the cork variety.

      http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volks...x/Engine/102/1
      Where's the Gem? You'll find it. Everbody does.

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      10-13-2012 05:50 PM #51
      Use the CIS cover.

      As for the oil pan gasket, good luck . It's not like the transverse VWs where the pan can drop easily. Having the head off doesn't really make things easier in terms of changing that gasket. Might as well get an ABA block

      I'm sore the oil pan gasket leaks like crazy on my build.
      I really suck at smog.

    17. Member dacolino's Avatar
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      10-13-2012 05:55 PM #52
      The rubber valve cover gasket is sourced from a 90-92 corrado g60, or most of the places like german auto parts just list it as an option if you looked it up on the site. In order to do it right you need to replace the studs as well, the cork ones have little shoulders that support the gasket, where as the rubber gasket has metal rings around the holes and just a typical stud. Highly recommended, I do it on every 8v.

      Oil pan gasket...I also do this on every 8v. Again, I think GAP, other online sellers also list this as an option, and I believe its oem on 93-95 mk3 2.0l engines, or maybe even all mk3 ABA's. Just remember, when installing the baffle, the oil pump needs to come out and be reinstalled. After so, you will have to prime the oil pump, and then also reset your iginiton timing being you will be removing the distributor.

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      10-13-2012 08:37 PM #53
      thanks for the tips guys!

      seems the oil pan gasket is more of a pain than it's worth at the moment - especially without a garage to do the work in...I guess there is a chance that oil is seeping from a different seal...

      I'll plan to start with the top end...

      What goes into removing the oil pan? Do I need to lift the engine - or just move the control arms? what about the transmission - that can stay bolted on?
      Last edited by redone17; 10-13-2012 at 09:56 PM.
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

    19. Member doppelfaust's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 01:58 AM #54
      When I did mine, I was able to disconnect the motor mounts and lift the engine with a floor jack. It gave me enough clearance to get the pan out. Unfortunately, I used a cheap gasket at the time and managed to strip two of the holes in the block so it still weeped after I replaced the gasket. It's not quite as hard as it sounds but was definitely more of a pain than a car with a transverse engine.

    20. Member
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      10-16-2012 11:03 AM #55
      so, no need to move control arms at all? that doesn't seem too bad.

      now if only I could find an aluminum oil pan...
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

    21. Member QuantumSyncro's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 11:09 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by redone17 View Post
      so, no need to move control arms at all? that doesn't seem too bad.

      now if only I could find an aluminum oil pan...
      That's going to be a needle in a haystack. Can't say I've ever seen a perf oilpan for an Audi 4k 4cyl....ever.

      I wonder if they every made one, the clearance between the subframe and the oil pan is so thin at the back that aluminum might have been too thick.

      Besides, do you really want one? I would think the front would be very vulnerable to large road debris, kind of like the VW Mk4 tdi's were. Bust out your oil pan and your engine is toast.

      I wanna see a picture when you find one! Good luck

      steve
      Gir - "won't the sploding hurt?" Zim - "Silence!"

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      10-16-2012 11:28 AM #57
      yeah, I guess it's pointless/overboard.

      There were a couple of 3 piece ones for sale in the classifieds recently...

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ghlight=speedy

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&daysprune=365

      I think that baffle ECS gasket will work out nicely...now I just need to sell a few parts to justify the cost of the head swap...
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

    23. Member doppelfaust's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 01:00 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by QuantumSyncro View Post
      That's going to be a needle in a haystack. Can't say I've ever seen a perf oilpan for an Audi 4k 4cyl....ever.

      I wonder if they every made one, the clearance between the subframe and the oil pan is so thin at the back that aluminum might have been too thick.

      Besides, do you really want one? I would think the front would be very vulnerable to large road debris, kind of like the VW Mk4 tdi's were. Bust out your oil pan and your engine is toast.

      I wanna see a picture when you find one! Good luck

      steve
      They were found on Audi 80 GTEs...



      With the design of the subframe on a Fox and how well protected the pan is, I would feel comfortable running one. Better oil cooling and more capacity.

    24. Member QuantumSyncro's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 03:51 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by doppelfaust View Post
      They were found on Audi 80 GTEs...



      With the design of the subframe on a Fox and how well protected the pan is, I would feel comfortable running one. Better oil cooling and more capacity.
      It's definitely better protected than the Mk4 but did we ever get the GTE in the US? I can't recall whether we got that model or not, nor have I found production figures for the GTE models.

      I still say needle in haystack.

      steve
      Gir - "won't the sploding hurt?" Zim - "Silence!"

    25. Member QuantumSyncro's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 03:53 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by redone17 View Post
      yeah, I guess it's pointless/overboard.

      There were a couple of 3 piece ones for sale in the classifieds recently...

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ghlight=speedy

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...&daysprune=365

      I think that baffle ECS gasket will work out nicely...now I just need to sell a few parts to justify the cost of the head swap...
      Wow, more common than I anticipated, and a very cool pan to have. I wasn't aware that those made it to this side of the world.

      Does this pan increase capacity at all?

      steve
      Last edited by QuantumSyncro; 10-16-2012 at 03:56 PM.
      Gir - "won't the sploding hurt?" Zim - "Silence!"

    26. Member doppelfaust's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 04:29 PM #61
      No, not found in the US as far as I know. The last one I found was on eBay but it shipped from Lebanon, needless to say, I didn't purchase that one.

      They seem to pop up from time to time and from what I understand definitely increase oil capacity. They're also baffled to help prevent oil starvation to the pump.

    27. Member QuantumSyncro's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 05:07 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by doppelfaust View Post
      No, not found in the US as far as I know. The last one I found was on eBay but it shipped from Lebanon, needless to say, I didn't purchase that one.

      They seem to pop up from time to time and from what I understand definitely increase oil capacity. They're also baffled to help prevent oil starvation to the pump.
      nice...increased capacity would definitely be a benefit!
      Gir - "won't the sploding hurt?" Zim - "Silence!"

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      10-16-2012 05:43 PM #63
      From Adam's Fox Site: VW made a cast aluminum oil pan that will fit the Fox. It is made of three pieces, has baffles and cooling fins. The part number is 049 103 603E. It was used on the B1 Passat GLi and the Audi 80 GTe.

      they are out there somewhere!
      Last edited by redone17; 10-16-2012 at 06:10 PM.
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-16-2012 09:01 PM #64
      Nice looking piece, definitely one for the dream list!

      I used the updated baffle + rubber gasket on mine and and have had a positive experience with it so far, I'd say go for it. Mine hasn't leaked (though I had the luxury of installing it with the engine on a stand).

      Adding to doppelfaust's info on replacing the gasket, another way to do it would be to undo the two side motor mounts only, then remove the two front subframe bolts, loosen the rear ones a bit, and lower the front of the subframe while the car is jacked up (supported elsewhere other than on the subframe). Doing it this way would cost you some subframe stretch bolts, though.

      Oh, and congrats on the new purchase!

    30. Member QuantumSyncro's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 09:48 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by alaincopter View Post
      Doing it this way would cost you some subframe stretch bolts, though.
      I have never heard that they're stretch bolts...really? I would never have suspected that the torque amount would be enough to stretch them.

      steve
      Gir - "won't the sploding hurt?" Zim - "Silence!"

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      10-16-2012 10:26 PM #66
      I didn't think so either, but I did read that they were in a couple of different places - I could have mistaken stretch for simply one-time use, though.

    32. Member QuantumSyncro's Avatar
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      10-16-2012 11:14 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by alaincopter View Post
      I didn't think so either, but I did read that they were in a couple of different places - I could have mistaken stretch for simply one-time use, though.
      One time use I believe, the Mk2 subframe bolts are the same as lower control arm bolts and they aren't stretch.

      Good to know though, for one time use I typically locktite if I'm really ambitious that day.

      steve
      Gir - "won't the sploding hurt?" Zim - "Silence!"

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      10-18-2012 04:56 PM #68
      Thanks all around. This is all great info! I am sure I will have a LOT of questions when I go to tackle this. I will start acquiring parts for this upgrade over the next month or so.

      MKIV TDi Wagon Thread!
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-21-2012 08:19 PM #69
      Today I got around to installing the AutoTech rear sway/torsion bar. The drilling was easier than I expected due to good bits - but getting the holes in the perfect spot - even though I checked and double checked - I still needed to widen them a bit. So much so - that one of the holes made the remaining metal at the edge so thin - I'm a bit worried about it. I plan to weld a little support there just in case.

      I also finally wired up the new headlight/fog light harness and relays! I still need to finish the fog light wiring to the cluster/switch - but the headlights have a significant increase in power. The wiring is pretty clean too.



      Unfortunately the selector shaft seal is still seeping

      Next time I have it on a lift - I'll have to spray it with that stuff again - and do it right with a generous 4-5 coats. It was difficult being squished under there with a lowered car on ramps.
      Last edited by redone17; 10-25-2012 at 11:30 PM.
      How a VW Fox Wagon sucked me back in...a build thread

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      10-27-2012 12:49 PM #70
      Glad to see the harness installed, Chris - looks like a clean setup. I might just order the same harness one day.

      Hit me up if you need any help with the fog light switch wiring. Enjoying your new TDi wagon too, nice choice! Especially like the interior, beautiful

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