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    VWVortex


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    Thread: distributor wont come out 98 jetta 2.0

    1. 07-03-2012 03:21 PM #1
      Car quit. error P0341 "faulty CMP sensor". Got used distributor/sensor and go to take out existing distributor. Mark existing distributor and try to take out, but is will not come out. Distributor housing will rotate, but distributor shaft will not rotate. Can wiggle shaft very little, like something is holding the bottom. So I decide I will rotate engine to try and free if in a bind. Does not make any difference and I see that rotor is not turning when engine rotates. Existing distributor still stuck and distributor shaft will not turn right or left. Do you think it is a broken camshaft, timing chain or something else?

    2. 07-03-2012 03:38 PM #2
      They are usually in there pretty good. You might need a pry bar or one on each side. Just a heads up, the P0341 code is thrown if the distributor timing is out of phase too. Might not be a bad sensor at all. If that is the case, and to prevent it from throwing the same code after replacement, you are supposed to time the engine before removing the old distributor and make sure it is still timed when you install the new one.

    3. 07-03-2012 04:14 PM #3
      Thanks zero, but what about the rotor not turning when i turn the engine over?

    4. 07-03-2012 04:41 PM #4
      Maybe a broken intermediate shaft or the distributor gears just aren't in contact with it. There is no timing chain on a 2.0. It has a timing belt, and if you are turning the engine and the belt is still on, it should turn the intermediate shaft and turn the distributor, as long as the distributor gears are in contact. It could be that you just have the distributor unseated enough to where it's not making contact to turn it or the timing belt is snapped. You need to remove the black timing belt cover on the left side of the head to check the belt. If you snapped the belt, you should do a compression test to make sure your valves aren't bent.

    5. 07-03-2012 04:58 PM #5
      Thanks again zero. I have pryed with a crowbar and it is not budging. I am scared to put too much pressure, scared i might break the gears on the camshaft. It is like something has a hold on the gears on the bottom of the distributor shaft. The distributor housing and shaft will wiggle a little back and forth like it ought to come out, but something is holding it. Would it be easier to remove the cover over the timing belt, or remove the valve cover to see if the valves are moving? We had a used engine put in it a little while back, but my father in law did it and I don't want to break anything prying, because we can't remember how long ago the engine was put in. I have called my father in law to get him to look at his records, but haven't heard back. I think they gave him a six month warranty, and it is going to be very close, but I don't even know if the timing belt would be covered but I would think it or the intermediate shaft you said should be covered. Is the intermediate shaft the same as a camshaft?

    6. 07-03-2012 06:50 PM #6
      The only thing that holds the distributor is that single hold down clamp and bolt on the front. If you have that removed, you just need to pull or pry it straight out. There's an o-ring on the end that makes it snug, which is why you can wiggle it but not take it out.

      It is easier to just remove the timing belt cover to check the belt.

      The intermediate shaft is what turns the distributor. The camshaft is under the valve cover. A Bentley manual helps.

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      07-03-2012 08:04 PM #7
      Zero has given you good advice.

      I'd start by removing the timing belt cover to see if the timing belt is intact.

      You cannot turn the distributor by trying to turn the rotor by hand, and turning the crankshaft should rotate the camshaft and the intermediate shaft and the distributor. The intermediate shaft is geared on the distributor end, and that is what turns the distributor.

      The distributor is usually in very tight, and it's not unusual to have to use some force to remove it. I've used a slide hammer (working my way around the bottom of the distributor housing), and a plastic covered deadblow hammer before to persuade the distributor to come out.

      Watch the distributor rotor as you pull it up. You will see that the rotor rotates as you pull the distributor up because the drive gear is beveled. When installing the distributor, since you know the rotor is going to turn as the distributor is inserted, you have to start with the rotor pointed at a different place than when the distributor is completely inserted, because the rotor must point at the indentation on the edge of the housing when the engine is at TDC, and the distributor is fully inserted.

      The cam position sensor does not need to be functional for the engine to run. Infact, the engine will start and run in "fail safe mode" if the sensor fails. The intermediate shaft and bearings are very reliable, and the chances of the distributor gear failing or the distributor shaft seizing are very low. Which is why, it's important that you check the timing belt first. The timing belt is the weakest link, and most likely to have failed.

      If you get a Bentley MKIII Manual is would all be explained to you (probably way better than I have).

    8. 07-03-2012 09:30 PM #8
      I got the timing belt cover off. I'm not sure if the belt is broken but it looks like a few strands of baling wire running around the top pulley and a lot of play. The engine was just put in last December. What is the typical warranty on a used engine. I'm in over my head. I can't even get the damn distributor out. I just don't have the right tools. My father in law is going to contact the mechanic he hired to put the engine in. Zero, germancarnut51, you guys (i think you are guys... you may be gals) are right on. Do you think the bad belt could have damaged anything else?

    9. 07-03-2012 09:47 PM #9
      I said it is a used engine, but I meant it is a rebuilt engine.

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      07-03-2012 11:32 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 12304 View Post
      I said it is a used engine, but I meant it is a rebuilt engine.

      Sorry, but it sounds like you got taken on the engine.

      The timing belt is a toothed rubber belt about 1 inch wide. If all you see is a few strands, then the timing belt broke. A new belt doesn't break after a few months, so the odds are, it wasn't a rebuilt engine which should have had a new timing belt.

      If you can get a hold of the Seller you got the engine from, I'd go back on him for not selling what he represented the engine to be (unless it was sold as a rebuilt engine that was XXXX miles old, in other words a used engine).

      The odds are the cylinder head has a number of bent valves now, and there may be some piston damage. Get the tow the car to a mechanic if you are not capable of replacing the timing belt to see if the engine will start, and how it runs if it starts. If it runs poorly (or not at all), it will need the top end (cylinder head) removed to determine the extent of the damage.

    11. 07-03-2012 11:41 PM #11
      You might need a pry bar or one on each side.
      [img]http://www.************/6d.jpg[/img][img]http://www.************/d.jpg[/img]

    12. 07-04-2012 10:30 AM #12
      I called my father in law to tell him the bad news. He said he would talk to shop owner Thursday. I think they charged him around $2300 to replace the engine in December. I'll let you know what happens.

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      07-04-2012 11:01 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by 12304 View Post
      I called my father in law to tell him the bad news. He said he would talk to shop owner Thursday. I think they charged him around $2300 to replace the engine in December. I'll let you know what happens.
      $2300 is a lot of money for a rebuilt ABA engine.

      There are still places you can buy a brand new factory VW "crate engine" (packed in a crate) for $1200-$1500 (no exchange).

    14. 07-05-2012 11:49 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by 12304 View Post
      I think they charged him around $2300 to replace the engine in December. I'll let you know what happens.
      Ouch...for that price you could have got a new car. If it was properly rebuilt, they really should have had a new timing belt and tensioner on it, but sounds like they didn't. Good luck

    15. 07-05-2012 01:37 PM #15
      I didn't explain that the $2300 was for labor and the engine, but that still seems like it should have been a rebuilt engine at the least. My father in law is going to the shop in a few minutes. I will let you know.

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      07-05-2012 02:31 PM #16
      Swapping the engine should not have cost more than $500-$600 at any honest shop.

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      07-05-2012 02:43 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by germancarnut51 View Post
      Swapping the engine should not have cost more than $500-$600 at any honest shop.
      yup.. shouldn't take too long to swap it out. getting rusty exhaust mani/dp bolts loose and refilling the coolant are probably the 2 most time consuming parts..
      '96 Golf Harlequin VR6, Chagal Blue base

    18. 07-05-2012 03:39 PM #18
      Well, we're going to have to wait for the rest of the story. My father in law said the mechanic said the warranty was only 6 months. (it was done in December). He told my father in law replacing the timing belt wouldn't be much. My father in law trusts him. I told my father in law there could be other issues. He still wants me to have it towed back to the shop monday morning and he said he would be there to talk to the mechanic when the car got there. He said if I would pay to have it towed, he would take care of the rest. I think I need to be there too. My father in law is getting too easy in his old age and I am getting a little ******. I don't trust the man. I want to be there and be able to look the man in the eye and ask him a few questions like how a new timing built could be that deteriorated in slightly over 6 months with only fragments of rubber left on it. My father in law now says he is not even sure now if it was represented as a rebuilt or used engine. So I would like to ask that and if the mechanic represents it as a used engine, I would like to know how he could charge so much for a used engine. If there are any questions ya'll would ask, please let me know.

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      07-05-2012 04:39 PM #19
      It sounds to me like you guys are being taken for a ride.

      An honest shop would not screw a good customer for the matter of a few days or weeks on a warranty. And they should be embarassed, and sorry that the engine failed in so short a period a time when you paid them a premium price for the engine.

      A used engine MKIII ABA engine is worth an honest $100-$300, and you can buy them all day at that price range.

      Even if you agreed to pay $2300 for a used engine, the timing belt should have been replaced, and the engine serviced (new drive belts, sparkplugs, ignition wires, distributor cap and rotor and oil change with filter).

      I would not pay to tow the car back there, and pay to have the timing belt replaced, just to find out that the engine was damaged, and the guy is going to want another $1000-$1500 to fix it or $2300 to replace it again.

      Do you have a work invoice/receipt detailing the work performed, parts supplied, warranty terms, payment amount and date of service?

    20. 07-05-2012 05:12 PM #20
      I am looking. they gave him one but he can't find it. I am trying to find it but I don't know if he gave it to me. That is another good question because I am sure the mechanic has a copy of it to cover his assets. That doesn't mean he couldn't or wouldn't doctor it if we can't find ours. I hope we can find one.

    21. 07-10-2012 08:35 PM #21
      Thanks germancarnut51 and others. Your opinion that the timing belt should have been changed regardless if the engine was rebuilt or used may have saved us. Got it towed to the shop today. He came out to look at the engine and I showed him where I had broke the ditributor trying to change the camshaft position sensor, but had bought a new used distributor replace it and that in the process I found out the rotor wasn't turning which led me to the timing belt which is pretty much desintegrated. He said if it is just the timing belt he would fix it. He said the 6 month warranty was up ( i might mention by 2 weeks) and he said it was a used engine. I didn't even argue the warranty. I just said it doesn't matter if it is a used engine, the timing belt should have been replaced and that is what has caused all the problems. He said the belt was replaced ( he didn't offer a invoice showing where he bought a new one). I told him to pleas look at the belt and tell me that. Eventually he agreed to make things right. He printed us a copy of the invoice. He originally charged my father in law almost $800 for the used engine, right at $1,000 for labor to remove and replace and about 135 for fluids, etc plus tax. I know he stuck us, but hopefully he is going to do right. Thanks again for your help. I need more friends like you.

    22. 07-10-2012 09:12 PM #22
      Couple of things:

      -Make sure he changes the tensioner with the belt because you are supposed to and the tensioner is probably what failed and destroyed the belt to begin with.
      -Make sure he does a compression test before sending you out the door again. The ABA is an interference engine regardless of what anyone may tell you. When the belt broke, you have a 50/50 chance of valve damage, requiring a head rebuild.

      Good luck

    23. 07-10-2012 09:28 PM #23
      Thanks zero.

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