.22 LR target rifle questions

[IJM]

I'd like to pick up a .22 rifle for target shooting, and I've been leaning towards the Savage Mark II FVT. It's got a bull barrel and peep sights, which I like. The stock is synthetic, but there are wood replacement options out there if I want to go that route evenually. I'm leaning towards bolt action over semi-auto, as I like the flexibility of ammo types that can be used with a bolt action rifle, plus it's the way to go if I ever get more serious about target shooting. The Mark II takes a 5 or 10 round magazine, which is handy. This particular rifle retails for around $400.




On the other hand, a friend of mine is willing to sell me his Ruger 10/22 semi-auto, which was given to him by his ex-wife's uncle along with several other guns. All I know about this particular 10/22 is from these three pictures that he took of it last week. It appears to have just basic rifle sights on it, and I'm not sure if it's drilled for mounting a scope or not. I'm leaning towards the Savage, but I'm curious about the 10/22.

Any thoughs as to what my friend's Ruger might be worth? I don't have any serial numbers, but it appears to be in decent shape. I have no idea what to offer him, and I'm sure he has no idea what it's worth.

[Tinker Toy]

Can't answer your questions but I'll give you this. I have a bull barrel Marlin 7000 semi-auto that I like to play with once in a while; have done 1 MOA with it and I believe that it would do better with a proper bench rest and a scope that cost more than $30. That said, I have a book that says that a bolt action rifle can permit a tighter fit between the slug and the bore at the beginning of the barrel to more securely embed the slug into the rifling before firing which enhances accuracy. A semi-auto might not do this reliably among various brands of ammo so it must be looser as described to make sure that the round is fully in place. Will your bolt action choice be set up this way? I don't know.

[LinkATX]

Offer $200 for that Ruger. Thank me later.

[personman]

I haven't looked in awhile, but generally a 10/22 in good shape will run $180 to $220. I think you can still find the basic model NIB for $200.

I do have a friend with one, it doesn't like to feed most plain lead bullets - anything with a copper wash works great. Also, it used to be that you had to be careful with the 50rd magazines, a lot of them were crap. Don't know if things have changed. The great thing about 10/22's is the huge number of parts and accessories you can get for them, if you like customizing things.

Savage makes great guns, and I'm sure the one you mentioned is no exception, although I haven't really seen or heard anything.

A quick search pulled this up -- "When they say the Savage stock is made from milk jug plastic, they aren't kidding-milk jug quality is what you get... When you buy the Savage, what you get is a fantastic barreled action for the money"

The same thread recommends looking at the CZ452/455 - I like the look of the 16" 452.

[personman]

Offer $200 for that Ruger. Thank me later.

Oooh... I think I see what you see there...

[IJM]

Offer $200 for that Ruger. Thank me later.

Oooh... I think I see what you see there...

Que?

[GTI_2.0T]

Que?

It looks to be a Sporter (checkered walnut stock). They're worth a bit more than the run-of-the-mill carbine that can be had for less than $200 NIB.

[IJM]

Interesting. I can have him send me more pictures. Is there anything in particular I should look for to verify that it's a sporter or other special model?

[LinkATX]

Interesting. I can have him send me more pictures. Is there anything in particular I should look for to verify that it's a sporter or other special model?

I believe the Sporter's are labeled, as this one is with Carbine. Sporter's have a slightly longer barrels and the stock is a different wood. $200 is a fair or even high price for the gun if it's in as good as shape as the pictures seem (albeit not very good pictures). Nothing really against that Savage either, but I bet you could get that Ruger damn accurate without spending $400. Plus, I just love 10/22's. My first firearm, that I still have, was one passed to my by my grandfather. I still take it every time I go shoot.
Try to get a serial # picture, could be an older gun.

[Obin Robinson]

A Ruger 10/22 with $600 of work into it is going to shoot like that Savage with no work done to it. I have two target .22s: a TOZ-78-04 and a CZ-452-2E-ZKM. Both are extremely accurate rifles. I like the TOZ-78-04 better but they are impossible to find. If I were in the market for another target .22 I would get a CM-2:

http://www.mtguns.com/cm-2.htm


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214508

General consensus at rimfirecentral is that the CM-2 will shoot every bit as good as an Annie or other European target rifle.

http://rimfireshooting.com/index.php?showtopic=43

When you buy the CM-2 there is nothing left to buy except ammo. It comes with really good target sights, 5 rear apertures and an eye cup, 11 front sight inserts, a Dewey style cleaning rod, brushes, jags and a sling.

That gun will last you the rest of your life and will shoot more accurately than you can. They feel like a million bucks. You can often find them at auction for $400 or so. These are championship-grade rifles and have world-class accuracy. They will shoot 10 .22LR target rounds into an inch or less at 100 yards all day long. You could spend twice the money and still not get the same accuracy. That is a serious competition gun.

obin

[2.FOH!!]

Offer $150 for the Ruger.

I like mine & bought it used from my brother for $100.
(In as new condition, more or less)

Out of the box accuracy is decent. Mine is stock save for a Nikon 4X
& has taken varmits out to ~ 80yds. It's quite reliable.

They can be made very accurate, but it takes money (as Obin mentioned).
My oldest's Rem 597 is more accurate.

[dj age one]

don't get the ruger for a target rifle.

a plinker yeah.

a hunter yeah..

target.. get the savage (as long as its the accutrigger)

there won't be anything left of the ruger but the receiver by the time you make it shoot like the savage.

one other word on it, experiment with ammo. don't try one kind and don't expect good results from walmart bulk.

[Obin Robinson]

CM-2 up for auction:

http://www.gunauction.com/search/dis...temnum=9793704

FWIW you could spend $800 on that Savage and it still won't shoot like the CM-2. The CM-2 trigger can be adjusted down to several ounces. Getting a Savage trigger to perform like the stock one on the CM-2 will cost you some serious coin. If you are shooting at 50 ft (standard .22 rifle distance) then this gun will put every bullet through the same hole. At 50 yards all the bullet holes will fit under the space of a dime. This gun was designed for international 50 meter competition and right out of the box you can compete with it on a national if not international level. It's a damn steal for under $600 brand new.

Damn. I want one now. I think this might be my next purchase. I have wanted one for a while.

obin

[IJM]

UPDATE: The serial number on that 10/22 is 125-86235. I'm guessing mid '80s. Does that sound right? Also, it's a Carbine model, not a Sporter from what I can tell. I'm tempted to offer him something like $150-$160 for it. He'd rather I have and use it than he have it and let it sit in the safe. I'd still like to get my hands on a proper target rifle, though, and that Savage with a proper stock is looking enticing.

[MofoG23]

find yourself a CZ452 and call it a day... if not, grab a new 455.

[Obin Robinson]

find yourself a CZ452 and call it a day... if not, grab a new 455.

The CZ-452 is a damn nice target rifle. I love mine. FWIW Aguila target ammunition is what I found to be the most accurate with mine when I used it in competition.

obin

[MofoG23]

Yep, they sure are. I've had mine for quite awhile now and was surprised to see their value go up, especially when the 455 replaced it. I guess people are not too crazy about the new process they use to build their rifles.

[1lojet1281]

I love my CZ 452 and it's a great shooting gun, but I would call it more of an excellent sporting rifle than a real "target" rifle. As mentioned earlier, the Vostok CM-2 is one of the best values going in a true Olympic grade target rifle they are available new or there are some Russian surplus guns floating around.. Also look for some of the surplus Kimber 84's that CMP was selling for $400 brand new over the last few years. They have been sold out for over a year but they show up for sale from time to time for around $500 or $600.

[MofoG23]

I love my CZ 452 and it's a great shooting gun, but I would call it more of an excellent sporting rifle than a real "target" rifle. As mentioned earlier, the Vostok CM-2 is one of the best values going in a true Olympic grade target rifle they are available new or there are some Russian surplus guns floating around.. Also look for some of the surplus Kimber 84's that CMP was selling for $400 brand new over the last few years. They have been sold out for over a year but they show up for sale from time to time for around $500 or $600.

I hear ya, but with a small trigger job on the CZ it becomes a DAMN good tack driver...pretty hard to beat. I've never shot the CM-2, so I can't really comment other than see it also receives great reviews - no doubt it would be on my short list of .22's if I were buying another one!

[1lojet1281]

I'm not knocking the 452 at all! It's an excellent gun and I love mine, it's just in a totally different class than the CM-2. The 452 is a much more versatile gun however whereas the CM-2 is truly only meant for target shooting and not at all suitable for hunting. Deoends on what the OP's definition of target rifle is, dedicated target gun or damn fine sporting gun.

[MofoG23]

I'm not knocking the 452 at all! It's an excellent gun and I love mine, it's just in a totally different class than the CM-2. The 452 is a much more versatile gun however whereas the CM-2 is truly only meant for target shooting and not at all suitable for hunting. Deoends on what the OP's definition of target rifle is, dedicated target gun or damn fine sporting gun.

[Foxtrot]

Find a club with a CMP affiliation and get the Savage for only $238...

http://www.thecmp.org/Sales/22commercial.htm


I've had a 10/22 and it was an ok plinker, but I just bought a Savage 93r17 BTVS for some target shooting.. So I the FVT..

[IJM]

Seeing that Savage on the CMP website is actually what got me interestd in the MkII FVT in the first place.

[Foxtrot]

Just picked up an FVT yesterday at Gander Mt. used in a ohhh roughtly 9 out of 10 condition. Missing all the sight inserts except of the #5 in it. But only paid $190 for it.

[IJM]

I finally settled on the Savage as well. No pictures, but I took it to the range today and it was a blast to shoot. So accurate with those target sights once I got them dialed in correctly. The plastic stock isn't anywhere as bad as I thought it would be, so that's a plus. I was shooting Federals today, and next time out I'll try some CCI.

[dj age one]

nice, sometimes I think about getting a bolt action 22lr, but the accuracy and extra reach of the 17hmr makes it a hard decision.

subsonic ammo is the key in 22lr for accuracy. as the bullet makes the transition from supersonic to subsonic it becomes unstable. this happens pretty quickly with 22lr.

something to keep in mind as you try for best accuracy. I've heard really good things about Aguila ammo, I hear its primed by Eley, which is one of the manufactures that makes ammo for olympic class shooters (them and Lapua, there 22lr ammo is pricey)

in rimfire accuracy, the primer consistency and distribution is the most important part, as the primer probably makes up 30% of the power of the cartrage, slight differences can really make a difference in speed and there for accuracy.

FWIW, there primed by dropping a drip of primer in, then spinning the case at high speed using centripetal force to fling the primer around the rim.

[IJM]

Good point about the subsonic rounds. Those CCI stardard velocity rounds I picked up are supposedly subsonic on all but the coldest days, so they should be more accurate than the 1200+ FPS Federals I was shooting today. I guess I'll just have to get out to the range again and try it.