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    Thread: Q: How could you gain 25 awhp and 32 tq from a CAI?

    1. 07-07-2012 10:03 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      There is some info in iMod's build thread. In the first post in this thread, there is a link to the BSH site, where you could order one. I believe there are only 2 of these on cars, one being iMod and the other is the one shown in the pic above. That car belongs to a guy that works for BSH. He has a build thread on here, but I can't remember his user name.

      The dynos above are the most specific info we have seen so far. There were quite a few people convinced by the theory and early pictures to pre-buy one. I'm in that group. I have not received a shipment notice, but it is supposed to ship very soon, hopefully early in the week. I want to install it ASAP to see the full potential of 2+. This intake and the Twintercooler are the last power mods I am going to do.
      I wanna b part of that group buy!

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      07-08-2012 12:09 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by watsonj0 View Post
      I look forward to seeing some more #'s after customers have installed. Anytime I see over 10-12 hp claims for an intake I become dubious
      Lots of companies make claims. How many actually show you dyno results? Kinda takes the guessing out of it.

    3. Member V8Star's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 01:20 AM #28
      I'd like to see dnyo specs on a 100% stock car, stock intake versus this one, same day back to back runs.

      Looks great, but without the tested car posting all of its specs, and with the stock intake being so restrictive on a 2+ tune.. Might be a cleaner way to see gains.

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      07-08-2012 01:38 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      I'd like to see dnyo specs on a 100% stock car, stock intake versus this one, same day back to back runs.

      Looks great, but without the tested car posting all of its specs, and with the stock intake being so restrictive on a 2+ tune.. Might be a cleaner way to see gains.
      This

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      07-08-2012 08:23 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post
      This
      yep

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      07-08-2012 09:45 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      I'd like to see dnyo specs on a 100% stock car, stock intake versus this one, same day back to back runs.

      Looks great, but without the tested car posting all of its specs, and with the stock intake being so restrictive on a 2+ tune.. Might be a cleaner way to see gains.
      my initial thought as well
      '12 Golf R 2D Rising Blue #1026 <---- Single Guy Car (sold)
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      07-08-2012 11:53 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      I'd like to see dnyo specs on a 100% stock car, stock intake versus this one, same day back to back runs.

      Looks great, but without the tested car posting all of its specs, and with the stock intake being so restrictive on a 2+ tune.. Might be a cleaner way to see gains.
      Why? We know the stock intake is a restriction on a stock car. Clearly the amount of the restriction is going to be less at stock levels vs stg1 or stg2. I'd guess almost no one with an intake is going to be on a stock tune anyway. Most people seem to be always asking for stg1 and stg2 numbers.

      It had a turboback (w/ res and cat), HPFP, FMIC, a catch can and APRs stg2+ software. For the intake runs it also had an intake. That's it. Basic stg2+ car. The two runs also seem to be less than an hour apart.
      Last edited by webcrawlr; 07-08-2012 at 11:55 AM.

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      07-08-2012 12:10 PM #33
      Vortex is worse than the scientific community for scrutiny of information. Fact.
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      07-08-2012 01:16 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      Why? We know the stock intake is a restriction on a stock car. Clearly the amount of the restriction is going to be less at stock levels vs stg1 or stg2. I'd guess almost no one with an intake is going to be on a stock tune anyway. Most people seem to be always asking for stg1 and stg2 numbers.

      It had a turboback (w/ res and cat), HPFP, FMIC, a catch can and APRs stg2+ software. For the intake runs it also had an intake. That's it. Basic stg2+ car. The two runs also seem to be less than an hour apart.
      All stage2+ tunes require an aftermarket intake. Which is why I want to see a comparison of the PR cold air intake versus a stock intake on an otherwise completely stock car. (No exhaust, tune, etc)
      If your stage2+ with a stock intake you will be starving the car of air, which is why it will make tons of power with a free flowing cai versus stock.

      I'm not against the intake, if it makes better numbers than all others I would probably buy it. I just want to see better consumer information.

      Another comparison would be a stage2+ car, with a different aftermarket intake (IE neuspeed or VWR) versus the PR cold air. Then we can see gains versus the competition on an already tuned car.

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      07-08-2012 01:22 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      I'd like to see dnyo specs on a 100% stock car, stock intake versus this one, same day back to back runs.

      Looks great, but without the tested car posting all of its specs, and with the stock intake being so restrictive on a 2+ tune.. Might be a cleaner way to see gains.
      Please explain why you are so concerned about the raw numbers? I think everyone gets bogged down in comparing the power numbers from this intake or that one, this exhaust or that, this intercooler or that.

      First, we know that dyno numbers are suspect. No 2 dyno machines are the same, even from the same brand. Even the same machine with the same car will show different numbers on different days, or even different times of the same day. There are far too many variables to control them all.

      To me it comes down to understanding the theory and technical details behind each design. Arin from APR finally posted a list of design features for the VWR intake to support the cost of that unit, which looks so similar to several others on the market but costs nearly twice as much. At least we now know what makes that unit different and can decide if those details make us feel comfortable with spending the extra cash.

      In the end, a car with a tune, HPFP, DP, intake, and upgraded intercooler is going to put about 300 HP to the pavement. Maybe some combinations will make slightly more and others will make slightly less. The differences in those numbers are not large enough to make any real difference in performance. Other variables will make more difference to the performance of the car than the differences in the upgraded parts. The fuel quality, tire traction, oil viscosity, tire pressure, etc. are all variables that will also affect the final performance, not to mention the carbon life form behind the wheel.

      The point is that you should not be so hung up on dyno numbers. You know all the bits and pieces that go into making this car faster. Maybe some combinations of those parts will end up making a little more power than some other combination, but will it really matter? There just isn't going to be a silver bullet that is going to make one car substantially faster than another.

      I feel that it comes down to being comfortable that the company you are buying from is doing a good job and providing a quality part. The idea of routing the intake the was BSH has done makes sense. How much difference it makes to the performance in the end may not prove to be all that substantial. At least you know that they really took the time to think about the routing and didn't just accept that the factory path was good enough.
      2012 Golf R 2Dr Loaded DBP - Diesel Geek, Badgeless Grille & Fill, Delete R Badges, 42DD Downpipe, Autotech HPFP, UM Stg2, Huper Optik Tint, HPA Dogbone mount, Rebadge.com, BSH PR CAI, Twintercooler, LED Tails, TSW Interlaggos 19X8, CTS TOP & TP, Xpel Ultimate, DXD Stg2 Daily, USRT W/M

    11. Member V8Star's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 01:29 PM #36
      See the post above yours.

      I know dynos, I know numbers don't mean much.

      All I am saying though, is that when the initial post in the thread compares a stock intake on a stage 2+ car, versus a cold air intake on a stage 2+ car, of course the gains will be 25awhp. This is not a good comparison, all I am asking is for a better test.

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      07-08-2012 01:33 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by riderbmx4 View Post
      this looks pretty interesting, does the hood close without a problem? any sound clips
      The guys at BSH/PR came up with this pretty clever hood strut relocation bracket that will be included with the kit. Easy to install and makes the strut clear the main body of the piping.


      Quote Originally Posted by casperslost View Post
      I cant think of a better place to test an intake system then during the summer in Arizona. Eagerly looking forward to putting it to the test in a Houston summer!
      Hellz to tha yeeah!


      Quote Originally Posted by .:Raunchy View Post
      I believe they include a relocation for the strut to hold the hood, allowing for everything to fit nicely. I'll be buying one in a week or so
      Hey, how'd you know that LOL!


      Quote Originally Posted by imdarkrider View Post
      Looks good, but i'm skeptical. Listed as stage 2+... could be a weak tune, then a badass tune so who knows. I'd love to see more independent stuff on this.
      They are hoping that folks start doing their own testing as well. This was tested in ultra demanding Arizona conditions on a brutal all-wheel dyno that is well known for serving up smaller numbers. To me it seems more honorable to under-promise and over deliver. Independent dyno'ing will back up their claims and then some. Go for it!


      Quote Originally Posted by riderbmx4 View Post
      I think I may order one, it does make sense not wrapping the pipes over the top of the engine because it would produce heat.
      This was the theory and now its proven to work,which has been pretty exciting to see step-by-step.


      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      There is some info in iMod's build thread. In the first post in this thread, there is a link to the BSH site, where you could order one. I believe there are only 2 of these on cars, one being iMod and the other is the one shown in the pic above. That car belongs to a guy that works for BSH. He has a build thread on here, but I can't remember his user name.

      The dynos above are the most specific info we have seen so far. There were quite a few people convinced by the theory and early pictures to pre-buy one. I'm in that group. I have not received a shipment notice, but it is supposed to ship very soon, hopefully early in the week. I want to install it ASAP to see the full potential of 2+. This intake and the Twintercooler are the last power mods I am going to do.
      Exactly, it is in Kens thread (BSHR). So far its just his car which has been testing it for 2 months and mine which is sitting on jackstands breaking my heart, LOL! The sound is bad-ass although subtle and the torque is totally noticeable which is quite an achievement for an intake. They will be shipping soon but the 4th of July threw everything off by a day or so. Have you seen the PR FMIC set up yet with the integrated crash-bar and thick core. Its pretty bad ass IMO.



      .

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      07-08-2012 01:33 PM #38
      The dyno of the stock intake and the PR intake were all done with in an hour. The PR intake is the first intake i can honestly say that without a doubt you can feel the difference in power through out the whole rpm range.

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      07-08-2012 01:52 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by batman25 View Post
      Any chance of this coming in black?
      Quote Originally Posted by Rdurty2 View Post
      It does come in black. It mentions this on the product page on the bsh website.
      It will ship as black wrinkle finish powder-coat.


      Quote Originally Posted by Rdurty2 View Post
      Can't wait to get my intake. Ordered it a couple weeks back.

      Any idea when they will start shipping?
      I heard this coming Friday the first batch will go out.


      Quote Originally Posted by feels_road View Post
      I agree, one adieu is perfectly sufficient.
      Noted mate.


      Quote Originally Posted by _leo_ View Post
      i was thinking about chopping up my neuspeed an placing it on the passenger side, seems more logical then to go over the turbo and have the heat radiate upwards

      is that stock toon or stage 1+?
      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      They used APRs 93 stg2+ tune for the testing.
      Its a Stage 2+ 93oct APR file and as a fellow enthusiast who has cut and refit an AEM intake from an A# to a TTS I would say if you can sell your current set up and get the PR set up you can avoid MAF location issues. They took all the guesswork out of it. This comes from experience that ended up causing more problems than it was worth. FWIW.


      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      My toes are tapping, waiting to receive a shipping notice. The Forge Twintercooler is due next week, so I hope this PR CAI shows up as well. My custom hatch emblem will arrive next week too!
      Post up that emblem man. Is t the same as the one you sent me via PM? I still want one of those. Jealous ova' here!


      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      Remember that the numbers above are with a 2+ tune and compare the stock intake to this intake. I wouldn't think about this in terms of raw numbers, but more in terms of percentage. The claimed increases are roughly 10%. To me, that does not seem unreasonable.
      Better than that, its now proven. The 5 consecutive runs were as I mentioned before, under very demanding conditions and all happened in one dyno session.


      Quote Originally Posted by webcrawlr View Post
      Lots of companies make claims. How many actually show you dyno results? Kinda takes the guessing out of it.



      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      I'd like to see dnyo specs on a 100% stock car, stock intake versus this one, same day back to back runs.

      Looks great, but without the tested car posting all of its specs, and with the stock intake being so restrictive on a 2+ tune.. Might be a cleaner way to see gains.
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post
      This
      Quote Originally Posted by YoungMedic View Post
      my initial thought as well
      Believe it or not a stock Golf R in Arizona is a rare item. If anyone has a bone stock Golf R chime in and they'll work out an arrangement for use of your car for the afternoon.


      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      Yes, I did the preorder for this intake and got a 15% discount, so it was cheaper than the Twintake, but still more than the Wintake. Those were the other 2 intakes I was considering. I also looked at the EVOMs intake, but I was not impressed with the fit/finish of the parts.



      .

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      07-08-2012 02:20 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by slackin' at work View Post
      ok, color me stupid... but where do I find more info on this intake?
      I have not heard/read/seen anything about it before this.
      Quote Originally Posted by TornadrotGTI View Post
      Ditto ^

      Can we get more pics? It looks pretty gnarly in the engine bay. In a good way I think. Also, sound clips on a stock car?
      The link is in blue bold underneath the pics of the dyno results in the original post. As for sound clips I am headed out to Phoenix later in the week and will get sound clips etc and BSH has asked me to create an installation video to help those who have bought it DIY this thing. It will be up on the BSH Facebook page and linked off their website. Why more companies don't do that is beyond me.


      Quote Originally Posted by Rebellionelite View Post
      Wow, seems like one unique intake, wondering how it compares to the VWR intake.
      Kinda curious about this one as well.


      Quote Originally Posted by watsonj0 View Post
      I look forward to seeing some more #'s after customers have installed. Anytime I see over 10-12 hp claims for an intake I become dubious
      Hey, we were all curious if these kinds of numbers could be truly achievable as well. Turns out with a little ingenuity and a great fabricator good things are possible.


      Quote Originally Posted by riderbmx4 View Post
      im wondering if its a good idea to relocate the m.a.f. my friend had some issue with his forge twintake because the M.A.F wasn't in the original position, it was located close the the bend of the intake, so he had some idle issue
      Its a bad idea if you are a DIYr with no prior engineering experience. Phil (Owner/engineer of BSH/PR) knows his sh!t so the MAF was a key concern that was always first in line during development in terms of priority. It ran for 3 months with zero issues.


      Quote Originally Posted by Siliconrane View Post
      Vortex is worse than the scientific community for scrutiny of information. Fact.
      If the claims were unfounded I would be too. This is not t all the case with the PR CrAI. Full disclosure my brethren and sistren!


      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      All stage2+ tunes require an aftermarket intake. Which is why I want to see a comparison of the PR cold air intake versus a stock intake on an otherwise completely stock car. (No exhaust, tune, etc)
      If your stage2+ with a stock intake you will be starving the car of air, which is why it will make tons of power with a free flowing cai versus stock.

      I'm not against the intake, if it makes better numbers than all others I would probably buy it. I just want to see better consumer information.

      Another comparison would be a stage2+ car, with a different aftermarket intake (IE neuspeed or VWR) versus the PR cold air. Then we can see gains versus the competition on an already tuned car.
      So, I agree this is a good basis for testing. A stock Golf R is scarce in the southwest. Anyone out there with a stock R willing to work with PR should contact ken@bshspeedshop.com In terms of a comparison between the PR and some of the other companies out there its not going to be done by them. That needs to be done independently as BSH stays above the fray of the industry BS. I learned his by hanging around those guys this spring. They have one goal to create the best aftermarket performance based gear for VAG cars. That being said it seems like many of these other companies have posted numbers on their CAIs and they are roughly half of what the Phoenix Rising set up was proven to accomplish.


      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      I feel that it comes down to being comfortable that the company you are buying from is doing a good job and providing a quality part. The idea of routing the intake the was BSH has done makes sense. How much difference it makes to the performance in the end may not prove to be all that substantial. At least you know that they really took the time to think about the routing and didn't just accept that the factory path was good enough.
      Yep, that is the concept. Sometimes ya gotta grab a machete and carve your own path. This is probably why I am so stoked to be working with them on my .:R Just a bunch of good dudes who want to make big numbers and make cars that are fun to drive. Who could fault that?


      Quote Originally Posted by V8Star View Post
      See the post above yours.

      I know dynos, I know numbers don't mean much.

      All I am saying though, is that when the initial post in the thread compares a stock intake on a stage 2+ car, versus a cold air intake on a stage 2+ car, of course the gains will be 25awhp. This is not a good comparison, all I am asking is for a better test.
      Thanks for bringing this up hopefully a stocker Golf R will pop up so they can conduct their own testing. If you just go off of percentage of power and TQ increases it is still fairly obvious that the gains from the PR intake are far greater than any other commercially available CAI for the Golf .:R


      Quote Originally Posted by BSHR View Post
      The dyno of the stock intake and the PR intake were all done with in an hour. The PR intake is the first intake i can honestly say that without a doubt you can feel the difference in power through out the whole rpm range.
      x2 shizznit felt pretty damn torquey after install. It was noticeable and to get noticeable butt dyno gains of an intake is an achievement. Outside of a chip or WMI how else are you going to see numbers like that for sub $500-? Money well spent any way you dice it.

      .

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      07-08-2012 02:40 PM #41
      It seems like there is always more discussions about the merits of the PR CrAI happening here as well....

      [Phoenix Risning on fB]

    17. 07-09-2012 01:41 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by iMod.:R View Post
      It seems like there is always more discussions about the merits of the PR CrAI happening here as well....

      [Phoenix Risning on fB]
      so you fully stand behind this product? are u running this set up on your r ?//

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      07-09-2012 01:58 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by iMod.:R View Post
      It seems like there is always more discussions about the merits of the PR CrAI happening here as well....

      [Phoenix Risning on fB]
      Thanks alot for posting that facebook link Found some products to add to my wish list

    19. Member ecirwin's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 07:51 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by iMod.:R View Post
      Post up that emblem man. Is t the same as the one you sent me via PM? I still want one of those. Jealous ova' here!
      I will post up the emblem when it arrives. It took them quite a few attempts to get it and they wouldn't ship until it was right. They also quoted me a price at the beginning and kept that price even though they did more work than usual. The price was higher than what Rebadge.com usually charges, but still they stuck to their quote.

      I did see the PR FMIC, but I had already committed to the Forge buy and PR is still in process not shipping. I am sure that their solution will give better performance, but we are probably splitting hairs at this point. I am not going to be racing this car, it is my DD. It is just fun!
      2012 Golf R 2Dr Loaded DBP - Diesel Geek, Badgeless Grille & Fill, Delete R Badges, 42DD Downpipe, Autotech HPFP, UM Stg2, Huper Optik Tint, HPA Dogbone mount, Rebadge.com, BSH PR CAI, Twintercooler, LED Tails, TSW Interlaggos 19X8, CTS TOP & TP, Xpel Ultimate, DXD Stg2 Daily, USRT W/M

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      07-09-2012 11:57 AM #45
      I'm waiting on full pics on the intake looked at my car and can't see how there is any room on the passanger side?
      2012 VW Golf R Rising Blue 2-DR | APR Carbonio Intake | APR Stage 1 ECU | Clear Sidemarkers | R Mats | Blind Spot Mirrors | H&R Sport Springs | 19x8 TSW Nurburgring Wheels | 235/35/19 Michelin Pilot Super Sports | Gone.

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    21. Member ecirwin's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 12:00 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by JRMGTI View Post
      I'm waiting on full pics on the intake looked at my car and can't see how there is any room on the passanger side?
      There are pics on the BSH site (link at bottom of first post). Maybe you think you need more than that?
      2012 Golf R 2Dr Loaded DBP - Diesel Geek, Badgeless Grille & Fill, Delete R Badges, 42DD Downpipe, Autotech HPFP, UM Stg2, Huper Optik Tint, HPA Dogbone mount, Rebadge.com, BSH PR CAI, Twintercooler, LED Tails, TSW Interlaggos 19X8, CTS TOP & TP, Xpel Ultimate, DXD Stg2 Daily, USRT W/M

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      07-09-2012 12:59 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by ecirwin View Post
      There are pics on the BSH site (link at bottom of first post). Maybe you think you need more than that?
      To be fair, those pics are of a prototype system, kind of small, and show an engine compartment with some unrelated changes. It would be nice to see some higher quality pics of the as-shipping production system. Maybe you could shoot these at the same time as the promised installation video?

    23. Member ecirwin's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 02:18 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by keihin View Post
      To be fair, those pics are of a prototype system, kind of small, and show an engine compartment with some unrelated changes. It would be nice to see some higher quality pics of the as-shipping production system. Maybe you could shoot these at the same time as the promised installation video?
      Yes, you are correct. I should have mentioned that, but I was in a hurry. If what iMod is saying is correct, they won't have a finished unit until the end of this week. Sounds like a delay at the powder coater.
      2012 Golf R 2Dr Loaded DBP - Diesel Geek, Badgeless Grille & Fill, Delete R Badges, 42DD Downpipe, Autotech HPFP, UM Stg2, Huper Optik Tint, HPA Dogbone mount, Rebadge.com, BSH PR CAI, Twintercooler, LED Tails, TSW Interlaggos 19X8, CTS TOP & TP, Xpel Ultimate, DXD Stg2 Daily, USRT W/M

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      07-09-2012 02:24 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by riderbmx4 View Post
      so you fully stand behind this product? are u running this set up on your r ?//
      Of course he is. Why would he not want the best intake ever produced.
      Blue One

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      07-09-2012 03:43 PM #50
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