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    Thread: Vancouver teen is going Big Turbo!

    1. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 12:47 AM #1
      Hey guys, I have recently been saving and aquiring parts to go big turbo on my 2002 awp gti. I should be starting this so I thought I would make a little thread to get your guys input and share!

      I bought this car about a year ago, almost stock. My previous jetta had the usual bolt ons, so I knew I wanted more; Originally debated going Frankenturbo, but I wanted a kit that is tried and tested with little to no installation issues. Being a student I wasn't planning an over the top build or anything crazy, just a budget build that I can enjoy and can keep growing and improving as funds allow.

      Anyway, here we go!


      Whats going on:CTS big turbo kit- featuring a garrett 50trim .48ar
      Thermal coated manifold/exhaust housing
      630cc injectors
      Walbro 255 inline pump
      Fmic
      Turbo back 3" exhaust
      sai,evap,pcv delete

      I am still undecided about the tune. Going with either unitronic or maestro.
      I like that I dont have to send my ecu away with maestro but I want to drive the car, now spend countless hours working out bugs and tweaking.
      Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated!

      I will get pictures of the car real quick, for now I'll leave you with a little teaser!





      Big shout out to:
      Clay at CTS- Has helped me through the whole process and runs a great company. Check em out.
      Winston at PODI- Hooked me up on warrenty for my gauge and has some slick stuff.
      And of course, future thanks to my old man for helping me put this in soon.
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    2. Member Three3Se7en's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 01:02 AM #2
      About the same setup as mine. Maestro 630 mafless base file runs like poo btw (well mine did). What kind of diverter valve or blow off valve are you using? Maf or mafless? Gotta upgrade to larger DV or BOV. CTS is a solid kit though. Oil drain line is a tad short so look around for a longer hose. Make sure you retighten your bolts on turbo - downpipe and wastegate bolts. Look into getting nordlock washers for that.

      2.1L, 1000cc, Maestro, CompTurbo 5558, CTS, IE intake, Scat rods, more to come..

    3. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 01:05 AM #3
      I plan on going mafless I think, but again everything tune wise is up in the air.
      Maestro is cheaper too, but really I just want it to run good!

      I will be running low boost (15psi) until I get the funds to do clutch and rods. Could run more I guess but better safe than sorry.

      Im hoping at that level my baileys dv will be sufficent.
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    4. Member Big_Tom's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 04:54 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Three3Se7en View Post
      About the same setup as mine. Maestro 630 mafless base file runs like poo btw (well mine did). What kind of diverter valve or blow off valve are you using? Maf or mafless? Gotta upgrade to larger DV or BOV. CTS is a solid kit though. Oil drain line is a tad short so look around for a longer hose. Make sure you retighten your bolts on turbo - downpipe and wastegate bolts. Look into getting nordlock washers for that.

      my base file idle's like poo. The new base file is a lot better in the midrange tho. Make sure you keep your vvt, it makes a difference

      Quote Originally Posted by 20VCanuck View Post
      I plan on going mafless I think, but again everything tune wise is up in the air.
      Maestro is cheaper too, but really I just want it to run good!

      I will be running low boost (15psi) until I get the funds to do clutch and rods. Could run more I guess but better safe than sorry.

      Im hoping at that level my baileys dv will be sufficent.
      no your baileys dv wont be sufficient lol. 1" inlet = no good for big turbo. also you can run 20 psi all day on a 50 trim. i've been doing it since day 1 of BT in Feb 2010. i run 22-232 psi normally, but i've set the car back down to 20 psi since i got the new 630cc file
      My Thread Fk AK Coilovers, Full 3" Exhaust, Custom FMIC, Forge Evo14 BOV, Forge Unos MBC, Forge Throttle Body Hose, Prothane Dog Bone Mount, BFI STG 1 Eng/Trans Mounts, Sachs VR6 Clutch Kit, TT Short Shifter, Siemens 630s, Walbro 255, DBB Garrett 50 Trim Turbo Kit, Eurodyne 630cc MAFLESS PAGPARTS FTW -- STEVEBILT.COM -- Integrated Engineering -- FourSeasonTuning.com Don't Buy Anything From *ChunkyPeanuts*

    5. Member Budsdubbin's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 11:30 AM #5
      Your base file is going to run like pooop, siemens 630's vary in flow thats why good distributors have them flow matched which helps with tuning. I've read somewhere the variance between the injectors flow rates is about 30% thats huge.
      20th Build ~9:5:1 wiseco 81mm forge pisons~IE 20mm rifle drilled H beams~Calico rod bearing~stock port AWP head matched to a IE intake manifold~hemi throttlebody~Custom downpipe/turboback~Self maestro tuned~tial 38mm wastegate~GT3076r .63ar Vband~6 puck Clutchnet~PTE600~USRT 1000cc gen2's~044 IE surge assembly~IE fuelrail~fuelab adjustable FPR

    6. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 01:50 PM #6
      So you all say the base file sucks for masetro, but is it any better than uni?

      If it doesnt work I will either run two dv's. Or look into a cheap bov.
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    7. Member Three3Se7en's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 01:56 PM #7
      From what I hear you can run 550 cc injectors with a 4 bar fpr on the 630 base file and it runs better. The Siemens Deka 630's just suck.
      I got a deal on 870's Im gonna toss in with my 2.0 stroker.

      Everyone that has Uni likes it. Just cant change anything without sending off the ecu.
      2.1L, 1000cc, Maestro, CompTurbo 5558, CTS, IE intake, Scat rods, more to come..

    8. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 02:00 PM #8
      Yes that is the only downside I can see, other than it being more expensive. 550's are not an option seeing I have the 630's already
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    9. Member Big_Tom's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 02:09 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by 20VCanuck View Post
      So you all say the base file sucks for masetro, but is it any better than uni?

      If it doesnt work I will either run two dv's. Or look into a cheap bov.
      the old base file kinda sucked. the new one is much better
      My Thread Fk AK Coilovers, Full 3" Exhaust, Custom FMIC, Forge Evo14 BOV, Forge Unos MBC, Forge Throttle Body Hose, Prothane Dog Bone Mount, BFI STG 1 Eng/Trans Mounts, Sachs VR6 Clutch Kit, TT Short Shifter, Siemens 630s, Walbro 255, DBB Garrett 50 Trim Turbo Kit, Eurodyne 630cc MAFLESS PAGPARTS FTW -- STEVEBILT.COM -- Integrated Engineering -- FourSeasonTuning.com Don't Buy Anything From *ChunkyPeanuts*

    10. Member Rac_337's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 08:34 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 20VCanuck View Post
      Maestro is cheaper too, but really I just want it to run good!
      Maestro does run good, if somebody that knows what they are doing dials it in for you

      good luck on the build!

    11. Member Three3Se7en's Avatar
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      07-07-2012 10:51 PM #11
      The new VVT file runs much better for me. Just flashed it on a little while ago.
      2.1L, 1000cc, Maestro, CompTurbo 5558, CTS, IE intake, Scat rods, more to come..

    12. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 04:32 AM #12
      Yeah im starting get excited! I book a few days off at the end of july. Hoping it does not take longer than 3 days.


      I will most likely go with maestro, see how the base file goes and mess with it a bit, and go from there.
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    13. Member Big_Tom's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 09:57 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Three3Se7en View Post
      The new VVT file runs much better for me. Just flashed it on a little while ago.
      My Thread Fk AK Coilovers, Full 3" Exhaust, Custom FMIC, Forge Evo14 BOV, Forge Unos MBC, Forge Throttle Body Hose, Prothane Dog Bone Mount, BFI STG 1 Eng/Trans Mounts, Sachs VR6 Clutch Kit, TT Short Shifter, Siemens 630s, Walbro 255, DBB Garrett 50 Trim Turbo Kit, Eurodyne 630cc MAFLESS PAGPARTS FTW -- STEVEBILT.COM -- Integrated Engineering -- FourSeasonTuning.com Don't Buy Anything From *ChunkyPeanuts*

    14. Forum Sponsor pete@integrated's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 03:17 PM #14
      It's a 50 trim guys, on a stock motor... Why not get a tune that runs right out of the box? Unless your time has no value to you at all and you like a car that runs like ****...

      I'd definitely keep a maf on it and use either the UM or Uni MAF 630cc file.
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      Check out some cutting edge R&D Work on our blog! IE Behind the scenes Blog!

    15. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 03:30 PM #15
      A maf is something I could do if need be. How much better is a maf setup run? Or does this depend on varying climate?

      Was just checking out the unitronic website and I thought the turn around was much quicker! 1-2 weeks from receiving would definitely be a thorn in my side.
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    16. Member Chickenman35's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 04:25 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by 20VCanuck View Post
      A maf is something I could do if need be. How much better is a maf setup run? Or does this depend on varying climate?

      Was just checking out the unitronic website and I thought the turn around was much quicker! 1-2 weeks from receiving would definitely be a thorn in my side.
      I agree with Pete.

      On a daily driver there is absolutely no good reason for not running a MAF. It just makes life so much easier. A MAF Tune will take care of all the countless minute adjustments at partial throttle much better than a Non-MAF tune. Groggery has a good thread on comparison between a MAF Tune and a Non-MAF tune. You are just miles ahead as far as drive-ablity with a MAF Tune.

      Keep the PCV system as well. You do not want to eliminate that on a Daily Driver. It costs zero horsepower, there are no drawbacks to keeping it and your engine is designed to use it. Eliminating the PCV system will cause quicker oil contamination, possible ring seal issues and probable seal leakage issues. It's all been covered before in the FAQ's under the valve Cover Breathing thread.

      Modifying the PCV system by adding a " Closed System" catch can and improving some of the failure prone stock hoses etc, is a good idea. But totally eliminating the PCV system on a daily driver is just plain dumb. Cleaning up the engine bay at the expense of function by deleting necessary systems is NEVER a good idea in my books.

      Same logic goes for the EVAP system. Run the damned thing. It's there for a reason and it cost no horsepower.

      The SAI...now that is a failure prone system, that doesn't do a whole lot and can be eliminated.

      Just my .02c
      Last edited by Chickenman35; 07-08-2012 at 04:37 PM.

    17. Member Chickenman35's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 04:36 PM #17
      One thing that people forget about when running MAF-less is Climate. It cannot adjust for differences in air density as efficiently as a MAF system. And you know what our climate is like on the WetCoast!!

      We can go from torrential downpours and temperatures in the low teens ( Celsius ) to 25 or 30 c in 1 day.

      You can go from sea level to 4,000 + ft in less than an hours drive ( Grouse, Seymour and Cypress mountains ). Pouring rain and BELOW sea level densities in Vancouver, to freezing temps and snow at 5,000 ft on the Coquihalla summit, to sunshine and 25 to 40 Celsius in Kelowna...all in a days drive.

      Running a MAF tune is essential in this part of the world IMHO.

    18. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 05:05 PM #18
      Love that BC weather! All good valid points, at this point I have no bias to maf or mafless. So I appreciate your insight to help me make my choices!

      As for the pcv it will just be vented on the valve cover, and a hose run to the ground on the block. Exact same idea as a catch can, just without the can.

      In terms of the evap system, I could leave it. I just figured since I was doing everything else I might as well take it out aswell.
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    19. Member Three3Se7en's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 05:32 PM #19
      For those that run MAF with BT, what is your diverter valve setup?
      2.1L, 1000cc, Maestro, CompTurbo 5558, CTS, IE intake, Scat rods, more to come..

    20. Member Chickenman35's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 06:08 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by 20VCanuck View Post
      Love that BC weather! All good valid points, at this point I have no bias to maf or mafless. So I appreciate your insight to help me make my choices!

      As for the pcv it will just be vented on the valve cover, and a hose run to the ground on the block. Exact same idea as a catch can, just without the can.

      In terms of the evap system, I could leave it. I just figured since I was doing everything else I might as well take it out aswell.
      I would not go that route with the PCV. You are going to regret it. Constant stink in your car from fumes being sucked in from engine bay, oil contamination, and the ring seal and oil sealing issues. Running a vent and a draft tube is straight from the 1950's...

      Run the stock system with a non-vented catch can. Your car will last longer, drive better and chicks will not think you a re a knuckle dragging Cave-Man

    21. Member Chickenman35's Avatar
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      07-08-2012 06:10 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Three3Se7en View Post
      For those that run MAF with BT, what is your diverter valve setup?
      MadMax valve ( Modified EVO X valve ) is the way to go. Piston valves such as the Forge etc are just too slow and flow restricted.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...diverter+valve

      Synpase Synchronic is pretty good as well:

      http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/16503A

    22. Member 20VCanuck's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 02:41 AM #22
      If I have the funds by the time I go to install this, I will try and pick up a catch can.

      Where abouts are you located chicken? Do you have any experience with maestro? are you on dubberz?
      50 trim'd up!
      http://ctsturbo.com-/thread

    23. Member Big_Tom's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 08:36 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Chickenman35 View Post
      I would not go that route with the PCV. You are going to regret it. Constant stink in your car from fumes being sucked in from engine bay, oil contamination, and the ring seal and oil sealing issues. Running a vent and a draft tube is straight from the 1950's...

      Run the stock system with a non-vented catch can. Your car will last longer, drive better and chicks will not think you a re a knuckle dragging Cave-Man
      Quote Originally Posted by Chickenman35 View Post
      MadMax valve ( Modified EVO X valve ) is the way to go. Piston valves such as the Forge etc are just too slow and flow restricted.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...diverter+valve

      Synpase Synchronic is pretty good as well:

      http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/16503A

      ^^^ you are spewing out lots of misinformation. not all piston diverter valves are created equally. some are faster than others and some are larger than others for more flow. Greddy is near the top of the list for response time as is a few other piston style dv's. I've never have a problem with mine opening slow. it opens fast even with a small amount of pressure and it still stays shut until my throttle plate closes

      also, for that matter the only folks i hear blabbering about how "slow" the Forge valves are is their competition. And they are "lab" tests @ that. Put them out on the street and they work flawlessly. I've never seen anyone in the streets around here complain about Forge valves. I see a lot of them, being that Forge is in Orlando. They are popular on Subaru, Mistu/DSM, VW, & Chevy around here

      also wtf oil contamination are you talkin about? i've been running my hose to the floor and breather cover for 2 years now. NO OIL CONTAMINATION. you'd have to pour some $hit in my engine for my oil to get contaminated. And I don't smell fumes very often either. I may catch a whiff in my garage or at a stop light every now and again, but it's rare. and i ride windows because no a/c
      My Thread Fk AK Coilovers, Full 3" Exhaust, Custom FMIC, Forge Evo14 BOV, Forge Unos MBC, Forge Throttle Body Hose, Prothane Dog Bone Mount, BFI STG 1 Eng/Trans Mounts, Sachs VR6 Clutch Kit, TT Short Shifter, Siemens 630s, Walbro 255, DBB Garrett 50 Trim Turbo Kit, Eurodyne 630cc MAFLESS PAGPARTS FTW -- STEVEBILT.COM -- Integrated Engineering -- FourSeasonTuning.com Don't Buy Anything From *ChunkyPeanuts*

    24. Member Big_Tom's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 08:45 AM #24
      also don't get a synchronics BOV, those suck. I have a friend with an AWD eagle talon w/ a giant PTE turbo. He had a greddy type-r (greddy's biggest valve for racing applications) on there for the longest time(6 or 7 years easy), never had a problem with it. He sees the synchronic come out, and he wanted one and bought one. never could get it to function properly, so he took it off after he got tired of fooling with it. I think he has a sheepdog on it now
      My Thread Fk AK Coilovers, Full 3" Exhaust, Custom FMIC, Forge Evo14 BOV, Forge Unos MBC, Forge Throttle Body Hose, Prothane Dog Bone Mount, BFI STG 1 Eng/Trans Mounts, Sachs VR6 Clutch Kit, TT Short Shifter, Siemens 630s, Walbro 255, DBB Garrett 50 Trim Turbo Kit, Eurodyne 630cc MAFLESS PAGPARTS FTW -- STEVEBILT.COM -- Integrated Engineering -- FourSeasonTuning.com Don't Buy Anything From *ChunkyPeanuts*

    25. Member Chickenman35's Avatar
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      07-09-2012 12:04 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Big_Tom View Post
      ^^^ you are spewing out lots of misinformation. not all piston diverter valves are created equally. some are faster than others and some are larger than others for more flow. Greddy is near the top of the list for response time as is a few other piston style dv's. I've never have a problem with mine opening slow. it opens fast even with a small amount of pressure and it still stays shut until my throttle plate closes

      also, for that matter the only folks i hear blabbering about how "slow" the Forge valves are is their competition. And they are "lab" tests @ that. Put them out on the street and they work flawlessly. I've never seen anyone in the streets around here complain about Forge valves. I see a lot of them, being that Forge is in Orlando. They are popular on Subaru, Mistu/DSM, VW, & Chevy around here

      also wtf oil contamination are you talkin about? i've been running my hose to the floor and breather cover for 2 years now. NO OIL CONTAMINATION. you'd have to pour some $hit in my engine for my oil to get contaminated. And I don't smell fumes very often either. I may catch a whiff in my garage or at a stop light every now and again, but it's rare. and i ride windows because no a/c
      I'm not spewing misinfo Dude. Do some research

      Oil contamination from not running a PCV system is an engineering fact. I didn't just make it up Dude. Do any oil analysis? I bet not..so how the frik would you know what's happening to your oil? Go do some research at intelligent sites like BobIsThe Oil Guy before you post your lame comments. And BTW, some people actually have AC and drive with the windows up.

      And have you done ANY research on piston style valves other than your seat of the pants experience. There is plenty of Hard Core data on the net that shows ACTUAL response times, flow rates and ability to hold boost. The Forge Piston units ( 004,007, and 008 ) all rated poorly. There are multiple testing reports on You-Tube by various independent sources...look them up. There are multiple threads on this site showing the actual weakness of Piston type valves. Most are all copy cats of the Forge series, which is dated and not of the best design..

      Guys like you are the reason why most of the " intelligent " posters to Vortex 1.8T Forum have left. Narrow minded and drink the Vortex Kool-Aid. Guys like Aaron, Steve, Max, Lugnuts just to name a few.

      You try and help out with knowledge gained through 35+ years of racing and working in the Automotive industry and you get treated like crap by dick heads. So I'm outa here too...

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