Vancouver teen is going Big Turbo!

[20VCanuck]

Hey guys, I have recently been saving and aquiring parts to go big turbo on my 2002 awp gti. I should be starting this so I thought I would make a little thread to get your guys input and share!

I bought this car about a year ago, almost stock. My previous jetta had the usual bolt ons, so I knew I wanted more; Originally debated going Frankenturbo, but I wanted a kit that is tried and tested with little to no installation issues. Being a student I wasn't planning an over the top build or anything crazy, just a budget build that I can enjoy and can keep growing and improving as funds allow.

Anyway, here we go!


Whats going on:CTS big turbo kit- featuring a garrett 50trim .48ar
Thermal coated manifold/exhaust housing
630cc injectors
Walbro 255 inline pump
Fmic
Turbo back 3" exhaust
sai,evap,pcv delete

I am still undecided about the tune. Going with either unitronic or maestro.
I like that I dont have to send my ecu away with maestro but I want to drive the car, now spend countless hours working out bugs and tweaking.
Thoughts and opinions would be appreciated!

I will get pictures of the car real quick, for now I'll leave you with a little teaser!





Big shout out to:
Clay at CTS- Has helped me through the whole process and runs a great company. Check em out.
Winston at PODI- Hooked me up on warrenty for my gauge and has some slick stuff.
And of course, future thanks to my old man for helping me put this in soon.

[Three3Se7en]

About the same setup as mine. Maestro 630 mafless base file runs like poo btw (well mine did). What kind of diverter valve or blow off valve are you using? Maf or mafless? Gotta upgrade to larger DV or BOV. CTS is a solid kit though. Oil drain line is a tad short so look around for a longer hose. Make sure you retighten your bolts on turbo - downpipe and wastegate bolts. Look into getting nordlock washers for that.

[20VCanuck]

I plan on going mafless I think, but again everything tune wise is up in the air.
Maestro is cheaper too, but really I just want it to run good!

I will be running low boost (15psi) until I get the funds to do clutch and rods. Could run more I guess but better safe than sorry.

Im hoping at that level my baileys dv will be sufficent.

[Big_Tom]

About the same setup as mine. Maestro 630 mafless base file runs like poo btw (well mine did). What kind of diverter valve or blow off valve are you using? Maf or mafless? Gotta upgrade to larger DV or BOV. CTS is a solid kit though. Oil drain line is a tad short so look around for a longer hose. Make sure you retighten your bolts on turbo - downpipe and wastegate bolts. Look into getting nordlock washers for that.

my base file idle's like poo. The new base file is a lot better in the midrange tho. Make sure you keep your vvt, it makes a difference

I plan on going mafless I think, but again everything tune wise is up in the air.
Maestro is cheaper too, but really I just want it to run good!

I will be running low boost (15psi) until I get the funds to do clutch and rods. Could run more I guess but better safe than sorry.

Im hoping at that level my baileys dv will be sufficent.

no your baileys dv wont be sufficient lol. 1" inlet = no good for big turbo. also you can run 20 psi all day on a 50 trim. i've been doing it since day 1 of BT in Feb 2010. i run 22-232 psi normally, but i've set the car back down to 20 psi since i got the new 630cc file

[Budsdubbin]

Your base file is going to run like pooop, siemens 630's vary in flow thats why good distributors have them flow matched which helps with tuning. I've read somewhere the variance between the injectors flow rates is about 30% thats huge.

[20VCanuck]

So you all say the base file sucks for masetro, but is it any better than uni?

If it doesnt work I will either run two dv's. Or look into a cheap bov.

[Three3Se7en]

From what I hear you can run 550 cc injectors with a 4 bar fpr on the 630 base file and it runs better. The Siemens Deka 630's just suck.
I got a deal on 870's Im gonna toss in with my 2.0 stroker.

Everyone that has Uni likes it. Just cant change anything without sending off the ecu.

[20VCanuck]

Yes that is the only downside I can see, other than it being more expensive. 550's are not an option seeing I have the 630's already

[Big_Tom]

So you all say the base file sucks for masetro, but is it any better than uni?

If it doesnt work I will either run two dv's. Or look into a cheap bov.

the old base file kinda sucked. the new one is much better

[Rac_337]

Maestro is cheaper too, but really I just want it to run good!

Maestro does run good, if somebody that knows what they are doing dials it in for you

good luck on the build!

[Three3Se7en]

The new VVT file runs much better for me. Just flashed it on a little while ago.

[20VCanuck]

Yeah im starting get excited! I book a few days off at the end of july. Hoping it does not take longer than 3 days.


I will most likely go with maestro, see how the base file goes and mess with it a bit, and go from there.

[Big_Tom]

The new VVT file runs much better for me. Just flashed it on a little while ago.

[pete@integrated]

It's a 50 trim guys, on a stock motor... Why not get a tune that runs right out of the box? Unless your time has no value to you at all and you like a car that runs like ****...

I'd definitely keep a maf on it and use either the UM or Uni MAF 630cc file.

[20VCanuck]

A maf is something I could do if need be. How much better is a maf setup run? Or does this depend on varying climate?

Was just checking out the unitronic website and I thought the turn around was much quicker! 1-2 weeks from receiving would definitely be a thorn in my side.

[Chickenman35]

A maf is something I could do if need be. How much better is a maf setup run? Or does this depend on varying climate?

Was just checking out the unitronic website and I thought the turn around was much quicker! 1-2 weeks from receiving would definitely be a thorn in my side.

I agree with Pete.

On a daily driver there is absolutely no good reason for not running a MAF. It just makes life so much easier. A MAF Tune will take care of all the countless minute adjustments at partial throttle much better than a Non-MAF tune. Groggery has a good thread on comparison between a MAF Tune and a Non-MAF tune. You are just miles ahead as far as drive-ablity with a MAF Tune.

Keep the PCV system as well. You do not want to eliminate that on a Daily Driver. It costs zero horsepower, there are no drawbacks to keeping it and your engine is designed to use it. Eliminating the PCV system will cause quicker oil contamination, possible ring seal issues and probable seal leakage issues. It's all been covered before in the FAQ's under the valve Cover Breathing thread.

Modifying the PCV system by adding a " Closed System" catch can and improving some of the failure prone stock hoses etc, is a good idea. But totally eliminating the PCV system on a daily driver is just plain dumb. Cleaning up the engine bay at the expense of function by deleting necessary systems is NEVER a good idea in my books.

Same logic goes for the EVAP system. Run the damned thing. It's there for a reason and it cost no horsepower.

The SAI...now that is a failure prone system, that doesn't do a whole lot and can be eliminated.

Just my .02c

[Chickenman35]

One thing that people forget about when running MAF-less is Climate. It cannot adjust for differences in air density as efficiently as a MAF system. And you know what our climate is like on the WetCoast!!

We can go from torrential downpours and temperatures in the low teens ( Celsius ) to 25 or 30 c in 1 day.

You can go from sea level to 4,000 + ft in less than an hours drive ( Grouse, Seymour and Cypress mountains ). Pouring rain and BELOW sea level densities in Vancouver, to freezing temps and snow at 5,000 ft on the Coquihalla summit, to sunshine and 25 to 40 Celsius in Kelowna...all in a days drive.

Running a MAF tune is essential in this part of the world IMHO.

[20VCanuck]

Love that BC weather! All good valid points, at this point I have no bias to maf or mafless. So I appreciate your insight to help me make my choices!

As for the pcv it will just be vented on the valve cover, and a hose run to the ground on the block. Exact same idea as a catch can, just without the can.

In terms of the evap system, I could leave it. I just figured since I was doing everything else I might as well take it out aswell.

[Three3Se7en]

For those that run MAF with BT, what is your diverter valve setup?

[Chickenman35]

Love that BC weather! All good valid points, at this point I have no bias to maf or mafless. So I appreciate your insight to help me make my choices!

As for the pcv it will just be vented on the valve cover, and a hose run to the ground on the block. Exact same idea as a catch can, just without the can.

In terms of the evap system, I could leave it. I just figured since I was doing everything else I might as well take it out aswell.

I would not go that route with the PCV. You are going to regret it. Constant stink in your car from fumes being sucked in from engine bay, oil contamination, and the ring seal and oil sealing issues. Running a vent and a draft tube is straight from the 1950's...

Run the stock system with a non-vented catch can. Your car will last longer, drive better and chicks will not think you a re a knuckle dragging Cave-Man

[Chickenman35]

For those that run MAF with BT, what is your diverter valve setup?

MadMax valve ( Modified EVO X valve ) is the way to go. Piston valves such as the Forge etc are just too slow and flow restricted.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...diverter+valve

Synpase Synchronic is pretty good as well:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/16503A

[20VCanuck]

If I have the funds by the time I go to install this, I will try and pick up a catch can.

Where abouts are you located chicken? Do you have any experience with maestro? are you on dubberz?

[Big_Tom]

I would not go that route with the PCV. You are going to regret it. Constant stink in your car from fumes being sucked in from engine bay, oil contamination, and the ring seal and oil sealing issues. Running a vent and a draft tube is straight from the 1950's...

Run the stock system with a non-vented catch can. Your car will last longer, drive better and chicks will not think you a re a knuckle dragging Cave-Man

MadMax valve ( Modified EVO X valve ) is the way to go. Piston valves such as the Forge etc are just too slow and flow restricted.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...diverter+valve

Synpase Synchronic is pretty good as well:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/16503A

^^^ you are spewing out lots of misinformation. not all piston diverter valves are created equally. some are faster than others and some are larger than others for more flow. Greddy is near the top of the list for response time as is a few other piston style dv's. I've never have a problem with mine opening slow. it opens fast even with a small amount of pressure and it still stays shut until my throttle plate closes

also, for that matter the only folks i hear blabbering about how "slow" the Forge valves are is their competition. And they are "lab" tests @ that. Put them out on the street and they work flawlessly. I've never seen anyone in the streets around here complain about Forge valves. I see a lot of them, being that Forge is in Orlando. They are popular on Subaru, Mistu/DSM, VW, & Chevy around here

also wtf oil contamination are you talkin about? i've been running my hose to the floor and breather cover for 2 years now. NO OIL CONTAMINATION. you'd have to pour some $hit in my engine for my oil to get contaminated. And I don't smell fumes very often either. I may catch a whiff in my garage or at a stop light every now and again, but it's rare. and i ride windows because no a/c

[Big_Tom]

also don't get a synchronics BOV, those suck. I have a friend with an AWD eagle talon w/ a giant PTE turbo. He had a greddy type-r (greddy's biggest valve for racing applications) on there for the longest time(6 or 7 years easy), never had a problem with it. He sees the synchronic come out, and he wanted one and bought one. never could get it to function properly, so he took it off after he got tired of fooling with it. I think he has a sheepdog on it now

[Chickenman35]

^^^ you are spewing out lots of misinformation. not all piston diverter valves are created equally. some are faster than others and some are larger than others for more flow. Greddy is near the top of the list for response time as is a few other piston style dv's. I've never have a problem with mine opening slow. it opens fast even with a small amount of pressure and it still stays shut until my throttle plate closes

also, for that matter the only folks i hear blabbering about how "slow" the Forge valves are is their competition. And they are "lab" tests @ that. Put them out on the street and they work flawlessly. I've never seen anyone in the streets around here complain about Forge valves. I see a lot of them, being that Forge is in Orlando. They are popular on Subaru, Mistu/DSM, VW, & Chevy around here

also wtf oil contamination are you talkin about? i've been running my hose to the floor and breather cover for 2 years now. NO OIL CONTAMINATION. you'd have to pour some $hit in my engine for my oil to get contaminated. And I don't smell fumes very often either. I may catch a whiff in my garage or at a stop light every now and again, but it's rare. and i ride windows because no a/c

I'm not spewing misinfo Dude. Do some research

Oil contamination from not running a PCV system is an engineering fact. I didn't just make it up Dude. Do any oil analysis? I bet not..so how the frik would you know what's happening to your oil? Go do some research at intelligent sites like BobIsThe Oil Guy before you post your lame comments. And BTW, some people actually have AC and drive with the windows up.

And have you done ANY research on piston style valves other than your seat of the pants experience. There is plenty of Hard Core data on the net that shows ACTUAL response times, flow rates and ability to hold boost. The Forge Piston units ( 004,007, and 008 ) all rated poorly. There are multiple testing reports on You-Tube by various independent sources...look them up. There are multiple threads on this site showing the actual weakness of Piston type valves. Most are all copy cats of the Forge series, which is dated and not of the best design..

Guys like you are the reason why most of the " intelligent " posters to Vortex 1.8T Forum have left. Narrow minded and drink the Vortex Kool-Aid. Guys like Aaron, Steve, Max, Lugnuts just to name a few.

You try and help out with knowledge gained through 35+ years of racing and working in the Automotive industry and you get treated like crap by dick heads. So I'm outa here too...

[Chickenman35]

If I have the funds by the time I go to install this, I will try and pick up a catch can.

Where abouts are you located chicken? Do you have any experience with maestro? are you on dubberz?

Not on Dubbers very often...but I may be more often now as I'm fed up with the Knuckle heads on this Forum. All the intelligent life here has left. I'm in Coquitlam, PM me and I'll give you my Phone number. I've also go a VAG-COM if you need to borrow it.

[All_Euro]

MadMax valve ( Modified EVO X valve ) is the way to go. Piston valves such as the Forge etc are just too slow and flow restricted.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...diverter+valve

Synpase Synchronic is pretty good as well:

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/prod/16503A

I caught the 4th of July sale and ordered http://synapseengineering.pinnacleca...rs-560-16.html from Synapse Engineering to replace my R1... I'm hoping it's similar in performance to the Madmax DV

[Big_Tom]

I'm not spewing misinfo Dude. Do some research

Oil contamination from not running a PCV system is an engineering fact. I didn't just make it up Dude. Do any oil analysis? I bet not..so how the frik would you know what's happening to your oil? Go do some research at intelligent sites like BobIsThe Oil Guy before you post your lame comments. And BTW, some people actually have AC and drive with the windows up.

And have you done ANY research on piston style valves other than your seat of the pants experience. There is plenty of Hard Core data on the net that shows ACTUAL response times, flow rates and ability to hold boost. The Forge Piston units ( 004,007, and 008 ) all rated poorly. There are multiple testing reports on You-Tube by various independent sources...look them up. There are multiple threads on this site showing the actual weakness of Piston type valves. Most are all copy cats of the Forge series, which is dated and not of the best design..

Guys like you are the reason why most of the " intelligent " posters to Vortex 1.8T Forum have left. Narrow minded and drink the Vortex Kool-Aid. Guys like Aaron, Steve, Max, Lugnuts just to name a few.

You try and help out with knowledge gained through 35+ years of racing and working in the Automotive industry and you get treated like crap by dick heads. So I'm outa here too...

blah blah blah, guyS like me this... blah blah blah, guys like me that... lay off with that bull$hit ur*high*ness. u don't even know me you can do all the studies you want about reactions times, etc. still does not negate the fact that Forge sells more than any of the other companies you named or the fact that 99% of their customers love their products. also, i could give a $hit about the "intelligent" posters or why you say they left you can kick rocks too for all i care

LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I HAVE NO FRIENDS ON HERE AND I'VE NEVER HELPED ANYONE

[Big_Tom]

and i dont need a lab test to tell me if my oil is contaminated lol i've been changing my own oils long enough to notice these things

[20VCanuck]

Well, I'll get this back on topic by posting some more pictures!

Intake setup


Wastegate


Downpipe


Turbo



Manifold


Before engine bay

[Big_Tom]

Well, I'll get this back on topic by posting some more pictures!

Intake setup

Hey, I have an intake that looks just like that! For real tho, isn't the construction of that thing nice? Heavy Duty lol. are you actually going to use the cold air extension? most people swear CAI's dont do anything, this one does

[Three3Se7en]

My guess is it sucks up water and lots of dirt, mud, etc.

[Big_Tom]

My guess is it sucks up water and lots of dirt, mud, etc.

LOL, n3v@R! you should have 1 too lol. i'm just running the short ram right now. occasionally, i thorw on the cold air extension for moar awesomeness

[doug@frankenturbo.com]

OP --

Great pix of your hardware! You have an exciting project ahead of you! Here's a bit of opinions from a "small turbo" guy:

don't over-think your DV. So long as yours is functional, it'll be fine while you dial in 1000 other things.

PLEASE run a MAF. I know it's debatable whether you can reach max power output while the ECU is seeing grams/sec, but for the other 99% of your driving, you'll be happy to have the input from that sensor. I recommend the Hitachi MAF/sensor for such a big power output. And get yourself modern, EV14-type fuel injectors. Even the 1000cc units idle beautifully.

Good luck on the build!

[20VCanuck]

Hey, I have an intake that looks just like that! For real tho, isn't the construction of that thing nice? Heavy Duty lol

Yes, I had a K&N cai a little while ago. I since have sold it, but it felt like tin foil compared to this! I will probably run the cold air extension! Btw, I ordered that ebay fmic piping kit. Showed up, was the wrong shiz, anyway I sent it back today. Clay hooked me up on the cts piping kit

OP --


PLEASE run a MAF. I know it's debatable whether you can reach max power output while the ECU is seeing grams/sec, but for the other 99% of your driving, you'll be happy to have the input from that sensor. I recommend the Hitachi MAF/sensor for such a big power output. And get yourself modern, EV14-type fuel injectors. Even the 1000cc units idle beautifully.

Good luck on the build!

I think I will run a MAF, as drivibility is really what its all about. Ya, I want a fast car, but its my dd and I will be driving to school/work everyday. Would the vr housing work?2.75 ID I believe. Stock sensor?

I have already bought the injectors. Are the siemens 630cc's that bad? I mean, I suppose I could probably exhange them. Just wondering if its worth my time/effort