Relay difficulties

[denver_fox]

So long story short, about eight months ago my dad got my relay panel in shambles trying to "fix my a/c"
He read in the bentley how the fans high speed is controlled by the a/c relay and started blindly pulling.
He ended up gtting the fan's high speed working, but the car wouldnt start anymore. Wasnt a big deal, still had the coupe to whip. But now that summer is here its time the sedan got fixed.
I think I've got it back together correctly, hows it look to you guys?

The worst part is I didnt even know he was tearing into the fox. I wake up and relays are everywhere
He will never do that again!

[ziddey]

Don't have a picture of the relay panel handy, but for the high speed fan, have you checked at the fanswitch? It's at the bottom of the radiator. Pull the plug and you'll find 3 pins. One is live fulltime, one is for low speed, and one high. Shunt the pins and see if you can get the low and high to come on that way. Obviously, if you connect the high and low, nothing will happen. If the high trips on, you have a faulty fanswitch.

Actually, now that I think of it, my wiring has been tampered with in the past as well. There's no fuse for the ac fan trigger IIRC (fuse site is completely melted). Yet the AC triggers the high speed. Have been too scared to look into it since everything seems to be "working"


edit: lmao hvac high speed fan not radiator

[denver_fox]

Well, I guess I was bein stupid, because fan speed 3 is working now.

Sometime this week Im going to get a vacuum test done on the a/c to see if there are any leaks.
I wouldnt be suprised if there is, I dont know the last time the a/c worked...

So lets hope I dont have to replace anything and I can just charge it with some r134.

And I know this is a stupid question, but which port on the condenser is the low end? Thanks guys.

[turbinepowered]

Well, I guess I was bein stupid, because fan speed 3 is working now.

Sometime this week Im going to get a vacuum test done on the a/c to see if there are any leaks.
I wouldnt be suprised if there is, I dont know the last time the a/c worked...

So lets hope I dont have to replace anything and I can just charge it with some r134.

And I know this is a stupid question, but which port on the condenser is the low end? Thanks guys.

I'm not sure what your question is. The usual AC loop goes Pump -> Condenser -> Evaporator -> Pump. There's a high and low pressure side on the pump and the evaporator, but the condenser should be all "one pressure."

[denver_fox]

Woops, I meant compressor not condenser! Sorry!

[denver_fox]

So....could someone post a pic of their relay panel for comparison? Really its only the top row I'm not completely sure of.

And once again, where is the low end on the compresser/pump? That is the end I'll be wanting to stick my can to?
Sorry guys, a/c noob here!

[QuantumSyncro]

According to the Bentley you've installed your 'la cucaracha' relay where your AC relay ought to be. It's position #15 (top row fourth over). Also, I don't know what the 57 relay is doing on the top right, Bentley says you should only have three relays in the very top row.

Also, if you get a 99 or 198 (might be 196, can't recall) wiper relay and plug that in you'll have adjustable intermittent wipers.....just sayin.

steve

[denver_fox]

Ugh. The more I try to diagnose this, the more confused I get.

I tried switching relays 13 and 29 but fan speed 3 stopped working. I swapped them back and now it wont work at all....

I don't know if this is relevant, but relay slots 12 and 17 are non-existent. I thought this was weird, so I checked out the coupe, and slots 12 and 13 arent there. Weird.....

And also dont know if this is relevant, but in the GL relay slots 13 and 14 are yellow, while 15 is red/black.

What I really need is someone with another 93 GL to post a pic of their relay panel, since it seems like it differentiates.

Oh, quantumsynchro, only the low speed on my wipers arent working right now. I'll look for that relay tho.

[QuantumSyncro]

Ugh. The more I try to diagnose this, the more confused I get.

I tried switching relays 13 and 29 but fan speed 3 stopped working. I swapped them back and now it wont work at all....

I don't know if this is relevant, but relay slots 12 and 17 are non-existent. I thought this was weird, so I checked out the coupe, and slots 12 and 13 arent there. Weird.....

And also dont know if this is relevant, but in the GL relay slots 13 and 14 are yellow, while 15 is red/black.

What I really need is someone with another 93 GL to post a pic of their relay panel, since it seems like it differentiates.

Oh, quantumsynchro, only the low speed on my wipers arent working right now. I'll look for that relay tho.

I wondered about the 12 /13 swap deal to begin with. Bentley suggests that 12 should be there and 13 should not....so my initial thought was that the connector for 12 was shoved into the 13 slot since the bracket up there is basically a holder and any connecter can go anywhere. That might also explain why your other relays are out of order based on what the manual prescribes.

Even looking at another 93 might not solve the problem because of the order in that row. Best thing to do is closely inspect the connectors to see how loaded the pins are in each and then fit the relay with pin outs that match the connector.

I'm wondering if you have a bad relay or bad connection somewhere and just need to swap some relays until you find one that works properly.

I'd drop my fuse / relay box down and check all the connections in the back too just to make sure that everything is connected solid. In fact I would unplug each one and reseat it again, sometimes even what we think is a good connection might not be good.

Bentley says:

position
12 - seat belt warning relay
13 - open
14 - idle stabilizer control unit
15 - A/C relay
16 - open
17 - open

good luck!

edit - also if you goog the part # on the relay you can typically figure out what it was originally used for...

[denver_fox]

I have a box in my spare bedroom filled with relays, all of which are from my grandmas old audis and vw's. Alot of them are very similar to the foxes, the problem is, I dont know what half of them are. I've tried googling them, but alot of the sites say different things. I guess I'll post a buncha pics or a list and you can help me decipher them??

And IMO, the bentley only teases you with the relays. Sure, it says "a.c relay goes here", but it doesnt say WHAT # relay, or at least some part #'s or sumthin!

So since I had nothing to go off of really except the bentleys teasing, I took a pic of a jy foxes panel:


It kinda helped, but it also added to my confusion. Does any1 know if the relay plugs colors have any significance?(the outlets on the top row)

[voxwagen88]

Here's a list of the relay numbers (the numbers printed on the relays) and what they are used for on my 1990 Fox.

# Function
13 Air Conditioning Relay
18 Load Reduction Relay
19 Intermittent Wiper Relay
21 Flasher Relay
29 Seat Belt Warning
53 Multi Use - Horn Relay / Starter Interlock / AC Fan
57 Idle Stabilizer Control Unit

80 Fuel Pump Relay
Hope that helps with your sorting.

My top row goes 29 / 57 / 13.
And if I'm looking at the pictures correctly, 29 goes where your 13 is.
57 where your 29 is, and 13 where your 57 is.
Maybe...

You seem to have a relay in the "13" slot that is open on mine.
Between your 13 and 29 relay in the picture.

Or maybe I'm lost. Your top row seems to be off a slot somehow....

[QuantumSyncro]

I have a box in my spare bedroom filled with relays, all of which are from my grandmas old audis and vw's. Alot of them are very similar to the foxes, the problem is, I dont know what half of them are. I've tried googling them, but alot of the sites say different things. I guess I'll post a buncha pics or a list and you can help me decipher them??

And IMO, the bentley only teases you with the relays. Sure, it says "a.c relay goes here", but it doesnt say WHAT # relay, or at least some part #'s or sumthin!

So since I had nothing to go off of really except the bentleys teasing, I took a pic of a jy foxes panel:


It kinda helped, but it also added to my confusion. Does any1 know if the relay plugs colors have any significance?(the outlets on the top row)

Relay plug colors don't mean anything, it's the configuration of the pins that's important.

Most relays are general and that's why you see multiple applications when you look online. Most relays with four or five standard pins are the same, in fact the four pin relay is just lacking the center pin present in the five pin relay. The specialized application relays are like fuel pump and glow plug where there's a huge pin and multiple other pins too.

If the relay pins match the socket then it will work as necessary, regardless as to who made it.

The area in question here is really the top row because the lower two rows are set, so we know precisely what goes there. Because the top row doesn't conform to the Bentley just populate it with relays that match the pin outs in the plug. If things don't work at that point just replace the suspected relay with another.

good luck!

steve

[denver_fox]

Here's a list of the relay numbers (the numbers printed on the relays) and what they are used for on my 1990 Fox.

# Function
13 Air Conditioning Relay
18 Load Reduction Relay
19 Intermittent Wiper Relay
21 Flasher Relay
29 Seat Belt Warning
53 Multi Use - Horn Relay / Starter Interlock / AC Fan
57 Idle Stabilizer Control Unit
80 Fuel Pump Relay

This is super helpful, thanks! Thanks for your suggestions too, Steve. Huge help.

And yea, the grey relay in slot 13(or is it 14 since 12 is a hole?) probably shouldnt be there. I know the bentley says empty, but I was getting super confused and was kinda just trying to put it back together like how the junkyard fox was. I wish I could remember if its panel had missing relay outlets.....

I'm about to head back to the junkyard. The 91 I was going off of was crushed, but theres still an 88 available. "JY's are a great place to learn, you can rip and tear without giving a care!"