Educate me: Used Caymans

[Nourdmrolnmt]

These are in the reasonable to low 30's pricing for used versions...

What to look for, etc?

[x1000rpms]

This thread interests me.

What happened to rule #1??? I know you know better OP!

[Nourdmrolnmt]

This thread interests me.

What happened to rule #1??? I know you know better OP!

well you covered my photo

[8v_gti777]

Not sure if it would fit your price range but I'd go for an 09+ with the new engine design.

[Nourdmrolnmt]

Not sure if it would fit your price range but I'd go for an 09+ with the new engine design.

what reasons?

[x1000rpms]

well you covered my photo

This thread also reminds me of the "waiting till it gets cheaper" thread..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...s-cheaper-quot

When these came out I said "Wait how much?!?!?!!" And it blew my mind because I drove an s2k at the time and it was half the price for 8/10ths? (I apologize in advance for the comparison and biased opinion)

IMO, the only way to justify the original MSRP is to put the car in the mix with the rest of porsche's line up and figure it's somewhere between a boxster and a 911.. and then take into account all the magazines calling it a better car than the 911 that was dumbed down so that it didn't compete with the 911.

Anyway.. once these have reaches decent prices they could be VERY INTERESTING.

[Nourdmrolnmt]

This thread also reminds me of the "waiting till it gets cheaper" thread..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...s-cheaper-quot

When these came out I said "Wait how much?!?!?!!" And it blew my mind because I drove an s2k at the time and it was half the price for 8/10ths? (I apologize in advance for the comparison and biased opinion)

Anyway.. once these have reaches decent prices they could be VERY INTERESTING.

That thread is why this came out.

[x1000rpms]

That thread is why this came out.

This does not surprise me. Seems to me, with it's MSRP, this car is the poster child for "waiting till it gets cheaper."

[Obin Robinson]

These are still fairly new cars. Look for one driven around 10,000 miles a year. That way you know you're getting a car purchased by someone who could afford not just to buy it but to drive and maintain it. Look for maintenance receipts (all should be from dealership or authorized mechanic) and find out what oil was used.

Other than that just look for general condition of the car. These are still fairly new vehicles and were built to be daily drivers. Get the best one in the best condition that you can afford. I'd have no qualms about buying a 2008 Cayman with 100,000 miles on it. They were built very well and there are a lot of them out there to choose from.

Just for your reference. Even the oldes ones are still a solid buy:

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Re...e&model=Cayman

They really are sharp looking cars:



obin

[Nourdmrolnmt]

What does the S add over the regular?

the premium doesn't seem much if the additional stuff is worth it.

[VadGTI]

More horsepower, 6-speed, better brakes, I think.

There's a 100k S for $22k locally.

Sent from a rotary-dial phone using Edna the Small Town Operator

[Nourdmrolnmt]

More horsepower, 6-speed, better brakes, I think.

There's a 100k S for $22k locally.

Sent from a rotary-dial phone using Edna the Small Town Operator

There are a few Ss available in the high 20s with around 70k

[what]

More horsepower, 6-speed, better brakes, I think.

There's a 100k S for $22k locally.

Sent from a rotary-dial phone using Edna the Small Town Operator

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...137087199.html

that one? the one you're considering as you consider every car? the one I, as a good person, sent you via instant message so that you finally sell that POS Volvo?

That one?

[Nourdmrolnmt]

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...137087199.html

that one? the one you're considering as you consider every car? the one I, as a good person, sent you via instant message so that you finally sell that POS Volvo?

That one?

Damn...

would be a fun roadtrip... thats got some nice equipment on it too.

[cerksies]

What does the S add over the regular?

the premium doesn't seem much if the additional stuff is worth it.

The S adds the following....

Bigger brakes (smallest wheels you can fit are 18's)
6 speed as standard (you COULD get the 6 speed on the non-s)
3.4 liter instead of 2.7 (2.9 2009+ cars)
I forget what base HP is, but S HP in 2006-2008 cars is 295
Better resale (arguably)


That's basically it. AFAIK, you can get every option on both cars. I was teetering on getting an S or a non S, but I figured I'd never be happy if I didn't spend the extra few bucks now, so I splurged on the S. I also figured that when (if ever) it comes time to sell the car, the S will hold it's value better than a base, so higher up front, but slightly better return later.

I also considered a 2009+ base vs. a 2006-2008 S, because with the refresh the base got more displacement, and I believe the 6speed as standard, so the gap between the two was smaller. However, gen2 cars (also known as 987.2 on the forums) are still up there a bit in price.

Things to watch out for....

Inner tie rods - they went bad on my car around 50k miles. apparently, it's a somewhat common problem on 997 & 987 cars - there may have been a bad batch of inner rods. I had mine done at a well qualified indy shop, they charged me about $600 (with alignment) to do both inners, and they did a great job. The dealer wanted $600 just to do one, and my dealer's rates are pretty cheap.

Brakes - while not a problem, and super easy to do yourself, they are pricy just for the parts, especially for the S. My front pads were low, but my rotors were still in great shape. Just for OEM pads and sensors (I don't track the car), I paid about $165 in parts. The job was the easiest brake job I've ever done. I think the whole thing took about 45 minutes, from start to finish. You don't have to take the calipers off if just changing pads. Adding rotors ads a bit more time and a bunch more cost. To do all front brakes with OEM, you're looking at around $450 in parts, plus your time.

IMS / Intermediate Shaft Failure - make sure to do some research on this. Most people say this has been ironed out, but it's possible some 2006 cars may be affected. The preventive fix costs about $600. The non preventive fix is replacing your engine. 2007+ cars are said NOT to be a problem.

Oil Changes - The car takes about 9-10 quarts of synthetic oil. The filter from Porsche is about $30, or $10 for a MANN/MAHLE filter. Even if you do the oil change yourself, you're looking at almost $100. My dealer says that you should change it about once a year or every 15k miles. I don't like going that far, so I'll probably change it every 5000-7500 miles.

Like was said before, these cars are meant to be driven every day. I drive mine a bunch - I've had it since september and have put probably close to 7,000 miles on it, and it's not technically my daily driver. I won't drive mine in snow or if there is salt on the road, mainly to keep the underside of the car clean, not because I don't think it would do well.

The car is extremely comfortable, and is very practical for a two seater. The front trunk is huge (can easily fit a carry on roller and 2 duffles, or possibly 2 carry on rollers depending on how big they are), and the rear trunk is big too, for the size of the car. You also have space right behind the seats above the engine you can throw some bags in

AUX Input - if this is important to you, 2006-2008 cars it has to be retrofitted. I have a Dension gateway and love it. Has ipod/iphone hookup and aux in, and can also be fitted with bluetooth.

My opinion on some of the options:
Bose - sounds awesome. You won't regret it if you get a car w/ BOSE

PCM2.1 (Navi) - I didn't car if my car had it or not, but the PCM radio is the only one that will play MP3 natively, you can burn a disc w/ MP3's on it, and it will play them. The navi (non touch screen) works well.

BiXenon - I WISH my car had them. I really really wanted them, but I wanted my color more (Cobalt Blue Metallic), and the car I ended up settling for didn't have the Xenons. The halogens aren't bad, but coming from a MKV GTI w/ BiXenon's, they halogen's just can't compare.

19" wheels (without PASM) - some people complain it rides too harsh, they are just old. Car looks great w/ 19"s

PASM - I drove a car with PASM, and mine doesn't have it. Do I care? Nope.

Sport seats - I never actually got to sit in a car w/ the sport seats, but I kinda wish I had them. I don't even know if they are that much better, the stock seats are awesome

Sport Chrono - IMO a gimmick, some people love it.

I'm sure there's more I'm missing, but I've gotta say, I absolutely love the car. Normally, I can get bored w/ a car pretty quick, but there is no way that I'll sell this thing UNLESS I can get something that much better. It's gonna be a tough move to get a better car than this one :-)

Pete

[cerksies]

Oh, and forgot to mention.... These cars get a lot of attention and comments. I can pretty much bet safely that in the 10 months I've owned this car, I've gotten more compliments from random people, friends, family, etc on the car than every other single car I've owned, COMBINED.

If you have any questions I can answer, or pictures of an area of the car that you'd like to see, just let me know, I'll do my best to answer.

Pete

[Boosted03GTI]

My buddies '12 Cayman R is for sale. I'll msg the link if interested. He's asking $66k and has a decent trade-in price locked in.

[Burnette]

Quick search for an '09 and above in a two hundred mile radius brought up six, least costly was about forty five grand.
I put it out of my mind owning a Porche, but this thread has given it some light. If I can spend thirty eight grand on a sedan to replace my daily sedan that's paid for now in two years, why not keep what's paid for and buy a used Cayman in two years?
Just wanted to say that I too enjoyed your posts here Pete.

[MrRline]

IMS / Intermediate Shaft Failure - make sure to do some research on this. Most people say this has been ironed out, but it's possible some 2006 cars may be affected. The preventive fix costs about $600. The non preventive fix is replacing your engine. 2007+ cars are said NOT to be a problem.

Sport Chrono - IMO a gimmick, some people love it.

Wasn't the IMS actually a problem until the change over to the updated 2008 versions? I'm still hearing about people getting blue paint engines even in the 06 years? I can always check planet 9 again.

As far as sport chrono if your getting the PDK I see no reason why you wouldn't want it. Package is great for the car.

Also I believe you may be missing the problem with the power steering pumps leaking in models predating the 2008 change where this issue was supposedly ironed out. I've also read quite a few issues with owners and the clutch issues which are random and assorted.

Also as more information 40k is supposed to be a large maintenance interval from what i've read. I know they usually want to change the spark plugs at around 600-800 bucks as well as a few other things.

[cerksies]

Wasn't the IMS actually a problem until the change over to the updated 2008 versions? I'm still hearing about people getting blue paint engines even in the 06 years? I can always check planet 9 again.

As far as sport chrono if your getting the PDK I see no reason why you wouldn't want it. Package is great for the car.

Also I believe you may be missing the problem with the power steering pumps leaking in models predating the 2008 change where this issue was supposedly ironed out. I've also read quite a few issues with owners and the clutch issues which are random and assorted.

Also as more information 40k is supposed to be a large maintenance interval from what i've read. I know they usually want to change the spark plugs at around 600-800 bucks as well as a few other things.

When I was doing my research, the IMS was a grey area. I couldn't get a 100% definite, but everything I looked at basically said "all 987's should be fine, but there could be some 2006's that squeaked by" which in terms of Cayman's would be Cayman S' (there were no base Cayman's in 2006). Some people have said that they basically took the M96 and restamped M97 on it

Here's one of the links I found while doing my research:
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
go down to "How do I know which IMS my engine has and what can I do?"

As far as Sport Chrono goes, my car is 6MT, not PDK, but I could see the benefits on PDK for sure, but for 6mt, I think it's gimmiky. I wouldn't have cared if my car had it though.

Also, don't forget, 2006-2008 cars are NOT PDK, they are Tiptronic. PDK was one of the facelift revisions.

I didn't know about the PS pump issues, I'll have to look into that.

As far as maintenance goes, it can get expensive if taken to the dealer for all that stuff. Find a good indy shop. I have a few $1000-2500 service bills in my receipts from the previous owners.

Pete

[honghong322]

Been eyeing a 2009+ for the past 6 months. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet (I don't think) is before you buy, perform a PPI at an indy shop. That will tell you the general condition of all the mechanics and if the mechanic sees any upcoming issues.

These are pretty stout/reliable cars, but parts will run more than the average honda/toyota.

Have you driven one? If you haven't, I suggest you find one and drive it, the way the car drives and handles is just You won't ever stop smiling. My problem is that I live in MA and I'm not going to drive the car during the winter...

[mtbscoTT]

I had a 2006 S bought new for 2 1/2 years, sold with about 30K miles on it. No problems whatsoever, only paid for the recommended maintenance (which by that point was around $600 out of pocket.) It's probably the only car I kind of regret selling, I had no big reason at the time, I just change cars a lot.
I shuffled it as daily driver with a MINI and an A3 at the time, it works just as well on the morning commute as it does down a winding country road or trackday. Decent gas mileage, lots of storage for a 2 seater as noted. I'm in the camp that thinks it's a much better design than the 911 but since that's Porsche's bread and butter car it will always be held down a notch in straightline performance.
In my experience, there would be no reason not to buy a 2006, I think the IMS issue is way overstated. Facelift was in 2009, at that time base Cayman got 6 speed as well as the S, engine capacity up for base and horsepower bump to 320 on S. PDK also became available. If you could afford it, I'd get a 2009+ for the updates, but nothing wrong with the 06-08's either. Great car.

[blahblahyoutoo]

These are in the reasonable to low 30's pricing for used versions...

What to look for, etc?

volt >> mmaxx >> cayman

[dmorrow]

I looked pretty hard at getting one until recently and they seem like great cars.

For low $30k's I would definately get a an S. I would hate to save a little and always wish I had the extra HP. You'll get most if not all of the money back for the S when you sell it. I would look for lower miles, many owners use them as weekend cars and they only come out when the weather is good, not used in heavy traffic, etc. Less likely to need a lot of the items that come with age and miles.

[8v_gti777]

what reasons?

From what I understand it's a more stout engine design without an IMS/RMS to break/leak. They get raced in Grand Am races and can take a serious beating. Here's a little I found on the web.

The new 9A1 motor is a completely new design, and is used in the Gen 2 987s, 997s and the new Gen 2 997 turbo.The GT2 and GT3 still use the previously used old-style split-case air-cooled motors with water-cooled heads, often referred to as the GT-1 motor. No doubt, with the debut of the new turbo using the 9A1 block, these cars will use it in the future, as well. The 9A1 motor does not have any of the problems mentioned here. That's not to say it may develop its own problems. This block is also used on the non-S Gen 2 987 Boxsters and Caymans, but with port injection rather than the DFI used in the other cars.

There were actually three different leaks that the M96 in the 996 and 986 cars, and M97 motors in the Gen 1 997/987 cars that were often lumped into what were called "RMS" leaks. These were the RMS (rear main seal), the bearing covers, and the rear case bolts. The real RMS leaks were mostly the fault of the block design in the M96 and M97 blocks where the crankshaft sat in a separate cradle that was then set into the crankcase. If the casting was not absolutely perfect on the case, the crankshaft could be very slightly off-center - when this happened it basically chewed-up the RMS, and there was a leak. For cars that were in-warranty, dealers were given what was referred to as a "go-no go" tool that was inserted onto the crankshaft to measure its straightness. If the tool didn't fit, then a new motor was installed. If it fit, then the seal was replaced. Over a few years, these seals were updated, with the last one being made of Teflon and derived from a seal use in the Cayenne motors. A combination of better casting and the OEM use of the new seals in the 987 cars made this leak rare in these cars. Again the new, 9A1 motors do not use this "cradle" design.

[Mike!]

I've heard the word IMS thrown around, so I feel compelled to share this link.

http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxst...re-anyone.html

All 06-08 Caymans are M97s, and there are no known IMS failures from the updated bearing design. The oldest cars are coming up on 7 years old with several over 100k mi too. I would not be concerned about catastrophic engine failure with one.

The 09+ cars did add some nice changes, but there's diminishing returns in paying the premium. The early cars are still great.

[Hawk]

Love my base '07.

90,000 kilometres on it and it's been flawless.

Best car I've every owned. Love it EVERY SINGLE time I drive it. As much now as 60 months ago when it was new.

Are there better cars out there? Of course there are. Is this all I can afford? Damn straight. But I'm seriously considering keeping this thing forever. Some interesting facts: Since its debut, it has consistently been Porsche's worst selling car. Chris Harris owns one.

On average I've spent about $1,000 per year on maintenance and expendable items (tires, pads, rotors etc)

I won't post any pictures. I think we know what they look like.

[Nourdmrolnmt]

What is rust like on these cars?

Is it something to even worry about? does the Cayman have a galvanized body?

[Hawk]

Rust is a non-issue. Fully galvanized bodies.

[Obin Robinson]

What is rust like on these cars?

Is it something to even worry about? does the Cayman have a galvanized body?

Porsche has been galvanizing their cars since the 1970s.

obin

[NoDubJustYet]

Is it worth going through a Porsche dealer and getting a CPO car?

[John Y]

Is it worth going through a Porsche dealer and getting a CPO car?

Given labor and parts costs, I'd be reluctant to buy an early 987 (the 05-08 Boxster, or 06-08 for Cayman) without a CPO warranty. Even though it seems safe to say that the 07s and 08s are, at least, less likely to have either RMS or IMS issues, these and other problems will be expensive - potentially catastrophic in the case of the IMS, if you lose an engine out of warranty.

My 05 S was CPO, and the RMS replacement it needed about 3K miles into my ownership period would have cost about 2K or a bit more, were it not for the warranty. As it was, no muss no fuss. With that said, I have owned a couple now (the 05 S and an 07 Boxster new) and driven most of the other models and versions through all the model years extensively, except maybe the Spyder; I think I can honestly say the 987 is about as enjoyable a drive and ownership experience as anything I've tried, if not more.

[dmorrow]

Is it worth going through a Porsche dealer and getting a CPO car?

For me, if I can get a Private Party car for $2k - $3k less than an equal CPO I would buy the Privat Party car. I think by meeting the owner I can get a better idea of how it was operated and maintained. Most 06's will have very little left in the CPO and even 07's you are probably buying a year and a half at most, I would take the risk. The $2k - $3k saved will fix a lot of things and worst case scenario, remember you saved the money up front.

I would get an S over a CPO and if you are willing to spend low $30k's I think it will be hard to get both and S and CPO, unless it is really high miles.

My car was CPO (Private Owner) and basically had a 4 month warranty on it. It was nice to have but I didn't put its value much above the others I was looking at that were of equal condition.

[Mike!]

Given labor and parts costs, I'd be reluctant to buy an early 987 (the 05-08 Boxster, or 06-08 for Cayman) without a CPO warranty. Even though it seems safe to say that the 07s and 08s are, at least, less likely to have either RMS or IMS issues, these and other problems will be expensive - potentially catastrophic in the case of the IMS, if you lose an engine out of warranty.

It's not that they're less likely... there's no documented cases of IMS failure on Caymans.

Even the '06 Cayman Ss all used the M97 (though some '06 Boxsters had M96s).

[epbrown]

It's not that they're less likely... there's no documented cases of IMS failure on Caymans.

Even the '06 Cayman Ss all used the M97 (though some '06 Boxsters had M96s).

I thought Boxsters had the M96 until the 07 model year?