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    Thread: 1.8T AEB No start up after engine build. Looking for opinions!

    1. Member
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      99.5 Audi A4 1.8TQM
      07-16-2012 09:50 AM #1
      Problem:

      Motor wont start after engine build. The motor is getting fuel, spark, and air. The motor seems to be “flooding” meaning drenching the cylinders with fuel but not igniting. NO CODES.

      Engine specs:

      1.8T AEB all new internals, bored out to 82.5mm, 8.5:1 CR, shaved intermediate shaft, supertech valvetrain, IE race/strip cams, GT35r, tuning Eurodyne, MBC.


      Background:

      I've spent a lot of time searching forms of other people build to see if they have the same issues. Had spent over a month thus far maticously cleaning and piecing the motor back together. Had engine internals assembled by machince shop, timing belt and cam chain is set perfectly (no half tooth off). The engine is not the original engine from the car, got the engine as a part out and built it while the original engine was in the car so I could drive it. So the original engine is sitting outside right next to the car and everything was in working condition. No issues with the original motor what so ever.

      Confusing part (possibly the issue):

      1. I built this setup to run off Eurodyne’s 830cc tune. I currently have their 440cc tune on my ecu. The ecu is locked right now due to prior issues with the controller and had Ctapp bench program it. So I am attempting to start the motor off the 440cc tune just so I can read the ecu and get a new license from Ctapp. I can guarantee that the 440cc tune is in working condition and runs fine. I had this in the car with a k04 setup.

      2. I do not have the front end on (no radiator or coolant). I have read that the car may not start without the coolant temp sensor hooked up, so I did at least hook up the sensor without officially mounting the radiator up. No luck starting.

      3. The 440cc tune calls for the 1.8T maf sensor in a vr housing. The 830cc tune calls for an A8 V8 mf sensor and housing. I currently have the v8 maf installed. I have tried starting the motor with the maf installed and disconnected. I know for a fact that the car can run with out the maf hooked up, tried it on the k04 set up.

      4. I have a catch can installed that is venting to atmosphere right now. It’s not diverted back into the intake.

      5. No exhaust piping, the 02 sensor is not hooked up and shouldn’t be the issue because it doesn’t operate when its not warmed up.

      6. Since im not running boost, I don’t have anything divereted back into the intake. i.e. pcv, diverter valve, n75 removed but still electrically connected.


      What I’ve done thus far:

      I have fuel pressure, running an AFPR at 3.5 bar. I initially tried to start with the 830cc injectors on the 440cc tune, it seemed to be “flooding” so swapped in the 440cc injectors no luck starting it on them.

      Tested all the spark plugs, I pulled the plugs and hooked each coilpack up individually with spark plug and cranked the motor and saw spark on all plugs. One thing to note though is that I do notice that it takes a little bit of time before plugs spark, maybe 1 sec or 2.

      I definatly have air, tried with with no intercooler, I used piping to connect the turbo outlet to the intake manifold. Also took the piping off and just let the motor suck in air from vaccum. The gt35r is a larger turbo so there is no spool during cranking so it’s not pushing air into the motor.

      Tried swaping to the built motor from working motor:

      Crank positioning sensor
      Throttle body
      Cam posistion sensor

      Next actions:

      Put the front end on, fill with coolant
      Swap over the maf to the vr6 maf setup
      Complete the intake; divert everything required back into the intake.
      Quadruple check all connections and vacuum lines



      I may have forgotten something. Any advise or opinions?

    2. Member poopie's Avatar
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      07-16-2012 11:19 AM #2
      triple check your timing.

      also the AEB will be reluctant to start if there is a large boost leak.

      the AEB will NOT start without a maf.

    3. Member
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      99.5 Audi A4 1.8TQM
      07-16-2012 12:20 PM #3
      The timing is dead nuts on. Unless there is some unforseen way of putting it 180 degrees out, i don't see anything wrong with the timing.

      As far as major boost leaks, im pretty confident i got everything hooked up, but I am going to go over it with a fine tooth comb.

      And as for the MAF, I can gauruantee that the car will run on the 440cc tune without the maf plugged it. Granted it did stall a couple times but I did drive it down the road and back without it.

      Thanks for the advise tho.
      Last edited by slukepunk; 07-16-2012 at 12:55 PM.

    4. Member poopie's Avatar
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      07-16-2012 01:35 PM #4
      why are you trying to start the car when it seems like many of the essential components aren't even hooked up? i would try and get it back together and start from there. you have too many variables right now.

    5. Member
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      2001.5 Audi A4 1.8TM
      07-16-2012 03:05 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by slukepunk View Post
      The timing is dead nuts on. Unless there is some unforseen way of putting it 180 degrees out, i don't see anything wrong with the timing.

      Thanks for the advise tho.
      Let's say there was... the engine would have zero compression in that scenario, right? Have you ran a compression test?
      2001.5 A4 1.8TQM: VAG-COM, F21, Motoza 550cc tune, 034 3" HFC, 2.5" exhaust, FMIC, Eibach coilovers, 034 rear sway bar, A8/TT & S4 brakes, JHM shifter & linkage upgrades, single mass flywheel/clutch, 4:1 diff mod, E-fan, Apikol diff mount, AWE DTS, 034 catch can, Nexus 7 HU, custom sound system & subwoofer, BiXenon retrofit
      Former: 1998.5 A4 1.8TM

    6. Member
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      99.5 Audi A4 1.8TQM
      07-16-2012 03:52 PM #6
      @poopie

      The goal with not putting everything on is to prevent the amount of stuff I would have to take off incase something goes wrong and to prevent unnessecary coolant draining. So my next action is to put everything on to see if there is some vital component that I may not have connected.

      In my mind, everything I have left off is something that is not required for engine start up. That is why I am asking to see if someone nows what component I may be missing.

      @metalman1

      I will go with you on the zero compression, I haven't tested it yet, but sounds like the compression is good. When I get around to it I will rent a compression checker.

      Thanks guys keep them rolling.

    7. Member
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      500+awhp 20vt
      07-16-2012 04:04 PM #7
      unplug the Eurodyne ecu, throw it in the garbage. problem solved.
      I like George Michaels

    8. Member
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      07-16-2012 04:17 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by slukepunk View Post
      @metalman1

      I will go with you on the zero compression, I haven't tested it yet, but sounds like the compression is good. When I get around to it I will rent a compression checker.

      Thanks guys keep them rolling.
      Even if the timing is 100% spot-on, it's still easy to check compression and if your compression is super low then right away you'll know what to look into, without going very in-depth on diagnosis.
      2001.5 A4 1.8TQM: VAG-COM, F21, Motoza 550cc tune, 034 3" HFC, 2.5" exhaust, FMIC, Eibach coilovers, 034 rear sway bar, A8/TT & S4 brakes, JHM shifter & linkage upgrades, single mass flywheel/clutch, 4:1 diff mod, E-fan, Apikol diff mount, AWE DTS, 034 catch can, Nexus 7 HU, custom sound system & subwoofer, BiXenon retrofit
      Former: 1998.5 A4 1.8TM

    9. Member poopie's Avatar
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      07-16-2012 05:52 PM #9
      The front end goes together quick. I can get mine off an on in 30 mins. For first startup I just use di water Incase I new to drain it. Quicker just to dump it off on the driveway and hose it down. Then when I'm sure I'm good with no leaks I use the pink stuff.

    10. Member
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      99.5 Audi A4 1.8TQM
      08-20-2012 11:39 AM #10
      For others that may come across this problem. The problem was solved not long after the thread posted.

      The timing was actually 180 degrees out. Apparently the Cam gear was on backwards caused the markings on the cams near the chain tensioner not to line up while the gear was lined up. The cam gear for some reason has timing marks on both sides of the gear.

      Soooooo now the issue with tuning, Siemens deka 870cc injectors do not like to idle on the 830cc Eurodyne tune and my setup.

      BTW Thanks for the advise
      Last edited by slukepunk; 08-20-2012 at 11:42 AM.

    11. Member poopie's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:57 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by slukepunk View Post
      For others that may come across this problem. The problem was solved not long after the thread posted.

      The timing was actually 180 degrees out. Apparently the Cam gear was on backwards caused the markings on the cams near the chain tensioner not to line up while the gear was lined up. The cam gear for some reason has timing marks on both sides of the gear.

      Soooooo now the issue with tuning, Siemens deka 870cc injectors do not like to idle on the 830cc Eurodyne tune and my setup.

      BTW Thanks for the advise
      did you get a new cam gear? you may have broken the key in the keyway. also check compression in case you bent a valve. if its not all together i would pull the head just to check.

    12. Member
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      99.5 Audi A4 1.8TQM
      08-21-2012 03:45 PM #12
      The cam gear was fine. I was actually able to put the cam gear on with either side of it facing me. One way its 180 degrees off, the other way obviously would be the correct way. I initally had mine the 180 degrees off. I had it 180 out becuase I didnt check the marks on the cams near the chain tensioner, ended up rotating the cams to tdc (with all cyclnders at mid stroke) not realizing that I just rotated the cams 180 degrees out of wack.

      I did end up checking compression afterwards no problem there, 140ish across the board.

      I had the car running fine on the eurodyne 440cc file and injectors. The problem I am having now is with the eurodyne 830cc file not liking the 870cc injectors.

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