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    Thread: Official FORMULA 1 GROSSER PREIS SANTANDER VON DEUTSCHLAND 2012

    1. 07-21-2012 07:58 AM #26
      Qualifying Session about to start.

    2. 07-21-2012 09:36 AM #27
      Qualifying results before any penalties...
      (sorry about the formatting)


      1 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:16.073 1:38.521 1:40.621 23
      2 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:16.393 1:38.309 1:41.026 23
      3 2 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:16.500 1:39.382 1:41.496 24
      4 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:16.686 1:38.010 1:42.459 24
      5 12 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:16.271 1:39.467 1:43.501 24
      6 18 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1:16.181 1:38.731 1:43.950 27
      7 3 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:16.507 1:38.659 1:44.113 20
      8 4 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:16.221 1:37.365 1:44.186 18
      9 11 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:16.352 1:39.703 1:44.889 26
      10 9 Kimi Räikkönen Lotus-Renault 1:15.693 1:39.729 1:45.811 20
      11 16 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 1:16.516 1:39.789 15
      12 15 Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1:15.726 1:39.933 17
      13 14 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:16.481 1:39.985 16
      14 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:16.265 1:40.212 17
      15 10 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1:16.685 1:40.574 18
      16 19 Bruno Senna Williams-Renault 1:16.426 1:40.752 21
      17 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:15.988 1:41.551 18
      18 17 Jean-Eric Vergne STR-Ferrari 1:16.741 9
      19 20 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham-Renault 1:17.620 8
      20 21 Vitaly Petrov Caterham-Renault 1:18.531 9
      21 25 Charles Pic Marussia-Cosworth 1:19.220 12
      22 24 Timo Glock Marussia-Cosworth 1:19.291 11
      23 22 Pedro de la Rosa HRT-Cosworth 1:19.912 8
      24 23 Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1:20.230

      Weather is going to play a big part tomorrow.

    3. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      07-21-2012 03:26 PM #28
      I was really pulling for Schu and Vettel to line-up 1-2 in Germany; that would have been tremendous

      Regardless, good session and setting up for a good race with Alonso, Vettel and Schumacher 1, 2, 3 respectively.

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      07-22-2012 01:29 AM #29


      The finger......Alonso style!
      Hope it rains!
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    5. Member atoson's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:01 AM #30
      Wow what a race, lots of overtaking.

    6. Member Hawk's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:52 AM #31
      Vettel totally passed Jenson OFF the track. Stewarts better give Jenson 2nd.

      Jenson knows it. Vettel knows it. The cameras show he had all four wheels off the track for the pass. If Jenson doesn't get 2nd I'll be shocked.

      Jenson such a classy guy on the podium smiling and just saying it was a great race and he won't comment.



      Sebastian explaining to Jenson how he had to pass him illegally outside the track to get 2nd. And Jenson, thinking, yup, we'll see what the stewarts say...

    7. Moderator The Red Baron's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:52 AM #32
      Great racing, lots of action.

      It will be interesting to see what the stewards rule on Vettel's pass. I can see it going either way. Personally I think Button has a case.

      I just can't imagine they'll penalize Vettel at his home grand prix.

      I also read that the FIA was investigating Red Bull's engine mapping for irregularities. Not sure what will come of that?
      for every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty,
      many souls must be trampled - hunter s thompson

    8. Moderator The Red Baron's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:56 AM #33
      Oh, I see the stewards cleared RB on the engine mapping thing pre race. Never mind my previous question.
      for every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty,
      many souls must be trampled - hunter s thompson

    9. Member Hawk's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:56 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by The Red Baron View Post
      I just can't imagine they'll penalize Vettel at his home grand prix.
      So the rules are different if you're racing on your home turf. Sounds fair.

      "Hey guys, listen up, here are the rules for today, oh unless this is your home GP in which case don't worry about it."


    10. Member Gran Turismo's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 10:07 AM #35
      Overall a pretty interesting race and congrats to Alonso. Wish that the Kimster got better results as he was so quick during the dry portions of qualifying. As for that off-track pass, I agree that Jenson deserves P2. Like Brundle said at the very least, Seb will get penalized on the grid at Hungary.
      Last edited by Gran Turismo; 07-22-2012 at 10:13 AM.

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      07-22-2012 11:01 AM #36
      Yeah, I don't see how they can penalize Maldodnado for his move in Spain but not Vettel here. I don't understand why the stewards are taking so long to rule the movie illegal and swap the positions.
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      No, the real enthusiast vehicle would be the RX8. It combines V12 Lamborghini gas mileage with Hyundai Genesis 4cyl. performance.

    12. 07-22-2012 11:16 AM #37
      great drive alonso.

      wished again for schumacher but was not to happen

      wished also for kimi

      mclaren picked up some speed but as far as the pass on button, either you swap their final positions but i do not see a major time penalty is called for.

      not sure why hamilton was in the mix to unlap himself so badly. but it helped alonso out a great deal to keep vettel back.

    13. Member Hawk's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 12:07 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by double-v View Post
      I don't see how they can penalize Maldodnado for his move in Spain but not Vettel here.
      Justice!!!!

      Quote Originally Posted by Formula 1
      Sebastian vettel penalised for jenson button pass. Vettel has been penalised for passing mclaren's jenson button while off-track during the german grand prix.Red bull's vettel was given a 20-second penalty, which drops him from second to fifth place. The incident happened when the german put all four wheels off the track on the exit of the hairpin as he passed button on the penultimate lap. The penalty promotes kimi raikkonen to third and kamui kobayashi to fourth.

    14. Member Hawk's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 12:25 PM #39
      New Standings in Germany are:

      1) Alonso
      2) Button
      3) Kimi


      That's my kind of podium.

      Also, I know this is just mean, but I love that Hamilton's season is falling apart. He's such a dork he'll probably quit Mclaren and then things will go even worse for him.

      This 2nd place will be really good for Jenson's spirits. Hopefully he can pull a win or two more this season even if his championship is over.

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      07-22-2012 12:53 PM #40
      It's a shame they couldn't adjust the standings in time for the podium ceremony. So now what, Vettel, Button, and Raikkonen get together to do a trophy swap? Will Vettel be buying a bottle of Moet for Kimi to spray?
      Quote Originally Posted by 20aeman View Post
      No, the real enthusiast vehicle would be the RX8. It combines V12 Lamborghini gas mileage with Hyundai Genesis 4cyl. performance.

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      07-22-2012 01:47 PM #41
      Nice try on the pass, Vettel

    17. 07-22-2012 01:58 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      New Standings in Germany are:

      1) Alonso
      2) Button
      3) Kimi


      That's my kind of podium.

      Also, I know this is just mean, but I love that Hamilton's season is falling apart. He's such a dork he'll probably quit Mclaren and then things will go even worse for him.

      This 2nd place will be really good for Jenson's spirits. Hopefully he can pull a win or two more this season even if his championship is over.
      aww LOL someone has their panties in a bunch. And this race is just further proof that vettel isn't in Alonso's class. Button isn't even in the conversation.
      Last edited by enigmatic enthusiast; 07-22-2012 at 02:05 PM.

    18. Member kptaylor's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 03:38 PM #43
      I don't know. Hamilton radioing the team to say he wanted to retire after changing his cut tire and rejoining in 22nd place was a bit whiny... It's not like he hasn't charged up through the field before, so you have to wonder if it's the mental game he's losing.

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      07-22-2012 07:47 PM #44
      Great race. Alonso is the man. Webber lost a huge chunk of points by finishing so far back and even Vettel lost out due to his penalty. Ham, well he's dropping way back without any points today.
      Don't want to jump to conclusions, but it's looking more like Alonso is gonna claim another title
      And when the FIA gets on RB for their mapping, it will allow Ferrari to gain distance even more. Perhaps Kimi will make it hard on Alonso before it's over??
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

    20. Senior Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:07 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by kfzmeister View Post
      Great race. Alonso is the man. Webber lost a huge chunk of points by finishing so far back and even Vettel lost out due to his penalty. Ham, well he's dropping way back without any points today.
      Don't want to jump to conclusions, but it's looking more like Alonso is gonna claim another title
      And when the FIA gets on RB for their mapping, it will allow Ferrari to gain distance even more. Perhaps Kimi will make it hard on Alonso before it's over??
      Yeah, not sure what happened w/ Webber, he just couldn't seem to make the prime tire work.

      And in for nick's comments as to why was LH racing SV when he was a lap down.
      Last edited by Mk1Racer; 07-22-2012 at 09:15 PM.

    21. Member nickthaskater's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 09:40 PM #46
      Solid racing from start to finish, and a bit of redemption for Lewis to come up and pass the leaders, I'm sure he enjoyed that.

      Sucks for Vettel as it could be argued either way with how Jenson went right to the edge in corner exit and even lost the back end a bit as Vettel said he was concerned about, but those are the breaks. It would have been nice for the FIA to simply get on the radio and say "give the position back" rather than slapping a drive thru despite no warning, but I'm sure Vettel will come back.

      Alonso is an absolute beast. He literally controlled that race from the get-go, and I don't think either Jenson or Vettel ever had a chance; Alonso always seemed to have something in reserve. Good on him for making such an incredible comeback this year.

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      07-22-2012 10:19 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by nickthaskater View Post
      Solid racing from start to finish, and a bit of redemption for Lewis to come up and pass the leaders, I'm sure he enjoyed that.

      Sucks for Vettel as it could be argued either way with how Jenson went right to the edge in corner exit and even lost the back end a bit as Vettel said he was concerned about, but those are the breaks. It would have been nice for the FIA to simply get on the radio and say "give the position back" rather than slapping a drive thru despite no warning, but I'm sure Vettel will come back.

      Alonso is an absolute beast. He literally controlled that race from the get-go, and I don't think either Jenson or Vettel ever had a chance; Alonso always seemed to have something in reserve. Good on him for making such an incredible comeback this year.
      Both Button and Vettel said something to Alonso right after the race. They were both surprised to not be able to get closer to the Ferrari in the DRS zone. I'm wondering if Ferrari knew it might get tight there and set gearing appropriately. Button later said that Alonso knew exactly where to use KERS throughout the whole circuit.
      Here's a nice Article from Windsor about Alonso's tactics during the race:
      http://peterwindsor.com/2012/07/22/w...lass-fernando/
      Form is temporary; Class is permanent

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      07-22-2012 10:35 PM #48
      What jumped out at me straight away when Vettel was in Alonso's DRS zone and Alonso picked up DRS off of a back marker (so both Vettel and Alonso were using DRS nose to tail), was that Vettel maxed out at 308km/h whereas Alonso peaked at 318km/h. I know the RBR isn't quick in the straights, but damn.

    24. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 11:21 PM #49
      Had to watch the race on the stupid Fox/Speed feed. My god those announcers are terrible. Half the time there's more than one of them talking at once so you can't understand them, they don't notice obvious important things happening on the screen until after the fact, and when they say stupid things they never bother correcting themselves. Not to mention the 347 commercial breaks. It took me barely more than an hour to watch the race including fastforwarding through the commercials.

      Hamilton's pass on Vettel was awesome. Not sure what Vettel's problem with that is. Hamilton was obviously faster at that point and he had a good chance of making some passes on the backmarkers that would have been blue flagged. Can't blame him for trying to salvage the race.

      Would have been very interesting to see how McLaren would have ended up finishing if Lewis didn't get that puncture. I'm also surprised they didn't bring out the safety car to clear that debris.

    25. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      07-22-2012 11:28 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      Also, I know this is just mean, but I love that Hamilton's season is falling apart. He's such a dork he'll probably quit Mclaren and then things will go even worse for him.
      I wouldn't be so quick to say that. He had bad luck in this race and yet still has 30 points on Button. Button has really been struggling during the last few races and has been all over the map in terms of finishing position. Hamilton has been quite consistent, with his worst finish being 8th aside from his two retirements. I would hardly say his season is "falling apart" after suffering some bad luck in two non consecutive races.

      Clearly, the McLaren car has seen some significant improvements and I wouldn't be surprised to see both McLarens running near the front in the next few races.

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