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    Thread: GX info???

    1. Junior Member BGosnell's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 04:52 PM #36
      I don't know how soon you plan on doin' the swap but I believe the headers for the 1.8 are a different size than then the ABA. That would suck to buy a nice header and then have to replace it months later. Super expensive too.
      What do you mean on the intake? You took the warm air cloth hose and routed it over by the fender? I think the only way to make it truly cold air is to block off the warm air intake all together cuz the flapper in the air box opens and regulates air temp based on expansion and contraction. That might be bad cuz the hole for the fender air is bigger than the warm air one and the flapper might never open cuz of the cooler air being drawn in. I wish there was a way to watch what that flapper was doin'. I always wonder how well mine actually works. It's about 25 years old.
      I have CIS Lambda and I run all stock except a K&N filter and some Autotech wires. My first big upgrade will be a new camshaft. I'm thinkin' I'll run the TT266 with lightweight adjustable cam and intermediate gears. I'd like to do a full on exhaust as soon as possible, mines hurtin', but they're so expensive.
      I know it's an 87, but it's MY 87.

    2. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 05:14 PM #37
      no diff between a 1.8L 8V and a 2L 8V header other than for which chassis it is for. The ports on the head are the same size and same spacing.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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    3. Member skateboards and mk2s's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 06:09 PM #38
      Techtonics said that all the headers will work. Each different header is just maximized for perfect fit.

      I might get to the swap pretty soon so I probably wont do much in the meantime it would just be a good test I guess.

      Im really thinking about the whole ABA swap. Its just nice and clean and I understand that engine a little better. It also seems that people are getting much better gas millage out of their ABA swaps.

      I love the way a CIS car sounds though. I know its silly but a CIS car with a bigger cam just lumps and bumps in the coolest of ways.

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      08-05-2012 06:13 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by BGosnell View Post
      What do you mean on the intake? You took the warm air cloth hose and routed it over by the fender? I think the only way to make it truly cold air is to block off the warm air intake all together cuz the flapper in the air box opens and regulates air temp based on expansion and contraction.


      I have CIS Lambda and I run all stock except a K&N filter and some Autotech wires. My first big upgrade will be a new camshaft. I'm thinkin' I'll run the TT266 with lightweight adjustable cam and intermediate gears. I'd like to do a full on exhaust as soon as possible, mines hurtin', but they're so expensive.
      Sorry I meant I took it off the back of the air box and reused it at the front of the box. It just dips down the fender and ends in the front of the airbox.

      Any of you guys using the stock stuff ever set up a "stock" and "race" style set up with ignition timing?

      Could the distributer position be marked for a quick adjust?

    5. Junior Member BGosnell's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 07:56 PM #40
      Hmmmm I guess I thought since the 2L's are bigger that the exhaust ports would be higher making the headers drop lower.

      what would you do retard the ignition timing for better high end?

      Seems like you could use some sort of colored marker to draw match-up lines on the cap and distributor.
      I know it's an 87, but it's MY 87.

    6. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 09:07 PM #41
      You guys don't realize that the dizzy on an ABA has little to no effect on IGN timing. The hall sender is there only as a cam position sender to tell the ECU when motor is at TDC for #1 cylinder(for sequential fuel injection). The crank position sender on the crank is how the ECU determines timing. The dizzy is only there to distribute the spark to the correct plug, you can even unplug the dizzy's hall sender and the car will run, in a default mode for injection. You can rotate the dizzy all you want and it won't have any effect on the IGN timing, try it some time. If you do turn it far enough to kill the motor, it is because the spark never made it to the plug not because the timing was changed.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      08-05-2012 09:10 PM #42
      For what it's worth, there's two locating pins on the distributor for the holddown IIRC. So you have very limited distributor movement. If you're going out of range, you don't have it installed right
      I really suck at smog.

    8. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 09:17 PM #43
      I have seen some w/o the pins, not sure if they were removed or is some years had them and some didn't.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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    9. Junior Member BGosnell's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 11:33 PM #44
      I was thinking CIS. ABA must be digifant. I have enough to learn with the simple CIS-L without diving into anything else.
      I know it's an 87, but it's MY 87.

    10. Member skateboards and mk2s's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 01:07 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      You guys don't realize that the dizzy on an ABA has little to no effect on IGN timing. The hall sender is there only as a cam position sender to tell the ECU when motor is at TDC for #1 cylinder(for sequential fuel injection). The crank position sender on the crank is how the ECU determines timing. The dizzy is only there to distribute the spark to the correct plug, you can even unplug the dizzy's hall sender and the car will run, in a default mode for injection. You can rotate the dizzy all you want and it won't have any effect on the IGN timing, try it some time. If you do turn it far enough to kill the motor, it is because the spark never made it to the plug not because the timing was changed.
      I was talking about CIS. The milage on the ABA I would think would be good enough that you could leave it "tuned" all the time or if you were a glutten for punishment you could swap chips at the track. On a CIS car though I was wondering if there would be a benefit to having less advance for daily use seeing as it would be an easy adjustment at the track.

      I think in the end, price is going to decide on me running the whole ABA swap. Header, chip and head gasket is going to be the cheapest way to a solid output 8V for me. God I hate wiring though

    11. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 03:05 PM #46
      If the tune is done correctly on an NA motor, there should be no reason to have to swap chips.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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    12. Junior Member BGosnell's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 07:41 PM #47
      Yeah on the GX it seems like your biggest, easiest improvements will be exhaust, cam and valves. If you pop off the head to do some valve work (they're so small on the GX) maybe you could shave the bottom to up your CR. Then again that'd probably cause interference issues. I was hammering on the beast last night and I was impressed with how she pulls when you actually let the rpm's climb before you shift. It felt pretty hairy close to 5k but it pulls real nice at 3 up. I just gotta work on my comfort level.
      I know it's an 87, but it's MY 87.

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      08-07-2012 01:29 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      If the tune is done correctly on an NA motor, there should be no reason to have to swap chips.
      This is exactly why I think for a daily / track car the aba is perfect.

    14. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-07-2012 01:53 AM #49
      Well, if you go stand-alone, that can and will apply to almost any motor. As long as you don't get too wild with cam(s) and CR, a well built motor can do any duty you like. My Rabbit w/ a GX block and a lg valve solid lifter head has 65K+ miles on it as a daily driven work car and has towed the race car on the tow dolly many times to events and even to the hillclimb up the local mountain.

      The motor is really no different than any other 1.8L motor, other than it has a lower CR and the valves are smaller(on the stock head). Put either the solid or hydro lifter heads on it w/ the larger valves, and you will gain some hp, how much? I have no idea, but it is an improvement. No different than back in the day when I bought the modded 1.8L GTI head from TT to fit my 1.7L block. That motor loved to rev!
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      08-08-2012 02:07 AM #50
      After a year with this car I could never go stand alone on my daily.



      God that system sucked! David and I would work so hard on set up. Get the car just right and then like clock work we would spend the rest of the weekend chasing gremlins in the stand alone. Granted this was ten years ago and I'm sure it has come a long way.

      I really think I am set on the ABA swap. In my head I have said that 125 hp will be good enough and it seems that the ABA will get to that point without alot of hassle.

      If I want more down the line I can build a nice block and do a ported head, bigger cam.

      What do guys do with mk2s with 400hp?? Seems like you could never get the chasis to take advantage of even half of that.
      Last edited by skateboards and mk2s; 08-09-2012 at 06:52 PM.

    16. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 09:45 AM #51
      Well, I don't know what system you were running, but I have not had one problem with my MS. And I feel very confident having to travel in my car for work, sometimes doing 800-1000 miles in 2 days.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      08-08-2012 01:23 PM #52
      If I can remeber right I think it was MoTec. Does Mega squirt run on all the factory sensors?

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      08-08-2012 01:59 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      Wow great stuff guys thanks.
      Air intake right now is stock with the front fender side cut out and a K&N I also took the tube from the exhaust and ran it down the fender where the factory tube was.

      I am having the priming issue on hills as well as some bogging on hot startups. Once it clears out it feels ok.

      It also feels like it pulls the hardest at 3/4 throttle. The cable is set right.

      On your GX are you still running all the stock CIS E stuff? Vacuum advance?

      Right now it feels great until 4200 rpm and then it is just done.

      The exhaust helped and I know that the stock manifold and downpipe are the worst
      so maybe I will try the header before I do which ever swap I decide on.
      ive got Lambda now, its all stock.. my 86 started out life as a Golf..

      the wrecked 85 tho, it does exactly as you describe.. the pump was always a bit noisey, and it never had real good power at WOT.. im thinking my fuel pump was getting weak. my car also made the best power under WOT, with it still in closed loop mode..

      if parked on a hill, i would have to cycle my key on and off about 8 times to re-prime it..

      the 85 had CIS-E, and it was all stock. no vacuum advance on that one. knock box.. i dont know what had been done to it in the 400k miles it traveled tho.. still think it had a weak fuel pump..

      i noticed the toilet bowl manifold is not the restrictive part.. the 1.5" downpipe is..

      my GTI benefited from a 4->2->1 manifold/downpipe, but not as much as my Golf benefited from a 4->1 header..

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      08-08-2012 02:01 PM #54
      btw, dont try and run a mk3 header on a mk2.. it will hit the rack n pinion..

    20. Member ps2375's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 02:25 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      If I can remeber right I think it was MoTec. Does Mega squirt run on all the factory sensors?
      It can, but I use GM sensors, as it is has those curves loaded as default. And the only sensors needed to add are coolant and intake air temp.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

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      08-09-2012 06:46 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      btw, dont try and run a mk3 header on a mk2.. it will hit the rack n pinion..
      This is on the the 1.8 correct? If I go to either the ABA or 2.0 tall block then the MK3 header works correct?

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      08-11-2012 11:38 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      This is on the the 1.8 correct? If I go to either the ABA or 2.0 tall block then the MK3 header works correct?
      yes, dont try and run a tall block header on a non-tall block engine..

      ive got an ABA header on my 1.8..

      i had to build some 1/4" aluminum spacers to go on top of the motor mount isolators to keep the header from hitting the rack..

      yes, i LIFTED the back of my engine to clear the rack n pinion..

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      08-11-2012 06:52 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      yes, dont try and run a tall block header on a non-tall block engine..

      ive got an ABA header on my 1.8..

      i had to build some 1/4" aluminum spacers to go on top of the motor mount isolators to keep the header from hitting the rack..

      yes, i LIFTED the back of my engine to clear the rack n pinion..
      Cudos to you for the dedication

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      08-11-2012 10:51 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      Cudos to you for the dedication
      its amazing what you will do when you have parts that *ALMOST* fits..

      im a broke college kid with access to a full machine shop basically..

      when somethin dont fit, i make it fit, or make a new one..

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      08-13-2012 12:24 PM #60
      Looks like my ABA is going to need more work than I initially thought.

      Im going to drop the cam in the 1.8 and found a cheap used header (that fits)

      That will have to do until I can build the ABA up nice.

      Do you have a preffered spark plug for the GX?

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      08-13-2012 12:45 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      Looks like my ABA is going to need more work than I initially thought.

      Im going to drop the cam in the 1.8 and found a cheap used header (that fits)

      That will have to do until I can build the ABA up nice.

      Do you have a preffered spark plug for the GX?
      i run spark plugs out of a GTI engine (HT code)

      just order plugs for an 85(6,7,8) GTI.. they should have 3 electrodes, rather than 1..

      ill go look at my car, get you a number off the plugs im running.. they work good tho, i know this.

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      08-13-2012 12:53 PM #62
      NGK BP6ETs are whats in my car..

      they are stock to an 85 GTI, because thats what they came out of..

      wrecked my 85, had just re-freshed the ignition system, so what i could save, i did.

      the wires, plugs, and cap were all the same. ROTOR was not.. knock sensing ign systems use 10mm shafts, like WW suggested..

      also running ~20* advanced ignition timing.. 6* just ISNT ENOUGH for these engines.. every one ive driven/worked on has BENEFITED from advancing the timing..

      also, my cam is retarded ~3.5* as well..

      the adjustible cam gear is NICE, makes it so you can shift your power around!
      Last edited by Glegor; 08-13-2012 at 01:00 PM.

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      08-13-2012 01:04 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      This is on the the 1.8 correct? If I go to either the ABA or 2.0 tall block then the MK3 header works correct?
      lol, just realised this..

      ABA, and 2.0 tall block are one in the same..

      i dont know of another tall block 2.0 in the united states

      besides maybe the mk4 motors.. dunno much about those tho..

    29. Junior Member BGosnell's Avatar
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      08-13-2012 02:58 PM #64
      I'm rockin' the Bosch w7dsr's, single electrode silvers. Silver is the best conducting metal and they're pretty much straight out of the Bentley's. The book actually says WR7DS's but the only difference I can fin is that the dsr's run a little colder for high performance apps. There might be an issue with early fouling on daily drivers but I figure as long as you hammer on it every now and then you're good to go.

      I was playing with timing the other day and figured since I run premium I'd be best served to advance all the way to knock, back it off a bit an call it good, but assumed that my timing light was defective(cheapo harbor freight special) because I would get it all the way to 20 or 30 degrees advanced and it wouldn't knock it would just go from high rpm's to progressively lower ones. And that seems like a TON of advance. Plus at around 6 extra degrees it would make this half squeal half grind sound that might be knocking but I can't be sure.
      I know it's an 87, but it's MY 87.

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      08-13-2012 04:21 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by BGosnell View Post
      I'm rockin' the Bosch w7dsr's, single electrode silvers. Silver is the best conducting metal and they're pretty much straight out of the Bentley's. The book actually says WR7DS's but the only difference I can fin is that the dsr's run a little colder for high performance apps. There might be an issue with early fouling on daily drivers but I figure as long as you hammer on it every now and then you're good to go.

      I was playing with timing the other day and figured since I run premium I'd be best served to advance all the way to knock, back it off a bit an call it good, but assumed that my timing light was defective(cheapo harbor freight special) because I would get it all the way to 20 or 30 degrees advanced and it wouldn't knock it would just go from high rpm's to progressively lower ones. And that seems like a TON of advance. Plus at around 6 extra degrees it would make this half squeal half grind sound that might be knocking but I can't be sure.
      any NGK plug with R in the number, has a RESISTOR built into the plug..

      VWs use solid core wires, with resistors on the end..

      there is no reason to use 2 resistors in the ignition system..

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      08-13-2012 04:27 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      i run spark plugs out of a GTI engine (HT code)

      just order plugs for an 85(6,7,8) GTI.. they should have 3 electrodes, rather than 1..

      ill go look at my car, get you a number off the plugs im running.. they work good tho, i know this.
      Thanks very much.

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      08-13-2012 04:30 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Glegor View Post
      NGK BP6ETs are whats in my car..

      they are stock to an 85 GTI, because thats what they came out of..

      wrecked my 85, had just re-freshed the ignition system, so what i could save, i did.

      the wires, plugs, and cap were all the same. ROTOR was not.. knock sensing ign systems use 10mm shafts, like WW suggested..

      also running ~20* advanced ignition timing.. 6* just ISNT ENOUGH for these engines.. every one ive driven/worked on has BENEFITED from advancing the timing..

      also, my cam is retarded ~3.5* as well..

      the adjustible cam gear is NICE, makes it so you can shift your power around!
      Are you using any sort of WOT switch on the golf? Or everything is still stock?

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      08-13-2012 04:37 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by skateboards and mk2s View Post
      Are you using any sort of WOT switch on the golf? Or everything is still stock?
      everything, injection wise, is 100% stock..

      ive thought about adding a WOT switch, but it just doesnt seem like the gains would be worth the work involved..

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      08-13-2012 11:12 PM #69
      I was talkin' about Bosch's not NGK. The Bosch W7dtc and wr7ds are what bentley recommends for the GX.
      I know it's an 87, but it's MY 87.

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      08-14-2012 05:00 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by BGosnell View Post
      I was talkin' about Bosch's not NGK. The Bosch W7dtc and wr7ds are what bentley recommends for the GX.
      lol, just noticed that..

      i like the GTI plugs i have in there now..

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