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    VWVortex


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    Thread: No start knock box suspect HELP

    1. Member broke..'s Avatar
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      77 rabbit 2door (16v swap in progress) 95 jetta aba 5speed daily
      07-17-2012 09:02 PM #1
      I have been trying to get my 16v swap started and the knock box is only sending 1.3 volts to the hall sender and full battery power to the the fuel pump relay (which should be the ground for the ignition switch current needed to trip the relay)





      is there something that would cause this behavior? or is the box its self bad???

      any suggestions or ideas are welcome

      also if you have a cis-e knock box for sale i would like to buy it, if mine really is bad.


      more information



      the brown wire with a yellow tracer goes to the knock box @ pin #10, it has to be ground in order for the fuel pump to run (jumped it to ground and the relay goes if the ignition is in the running position)

      as this diagram describes


      at pin 9 a wire that is also brown with a yellow tracer leaves the knock box and provides power to the Hall sensor.




      currently the brown/yellow wire to the fuel pump relay is grounded when the key is off, and has battery power when the key is in the running position which it shouldn't.

      there is only 1.3 volts getting to the hall sender while 12 volts is going is going to the fuel pump relay.

      also i have 12v switched coming in through the yellow wire

      i did continuity checks on all the wires that would be questionable and they all check out with next to no resistance.


      i started this thread to make sure i'm not chasing down the wrong problem, has anyone else had the knock box fail on them? i bought this motor in running condition (from someone the vortex).

      suggestions are welcomed i don't know what i'm missing if it's not the knock box that's causing the problem.

      I'm not trying to convince everyone this is what's wrong, i'm just trying to provide as much information as i can to help people make suggestions or help me trouble shoot this.

      tl:dr fuel pump does not prime or run because the knock box is sending power somewhere it shouldn't.
      Last edited by broke..; 07-17-2012 at 11:19 PM.
      A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

    2. Member broke..'s Avatar
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      77 rabbit 2door (16v swap in progress) 95 jetta aba 5speed daily
      08-05-2012 01:27 AM #2
      halp
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    3. Member ekua516's Avatar
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      1mk2/1mk3/1mkiv all jettas.....
      08-05-2012 11:00 AM #3
      Had a similar problem but damn i really didnt get into all the details like you ..
      what are you missing fuel or spark?
      in my case i was missing fuel after diagnosis i found that i was missing the ground circuit from box to trigger relay,check wire to and from box to relay that was good so i got another box and lucky me that fixed it..

    4. 08-06-2012 11:35 PM #4
      Pin 9 from the knock box is the signal from the hall sender (pin 2 on hall sender). There should be 12v between pin 1 and 3 on the hall sender when the key is in run.

      If the engine is not running, the fuel pump shouldn't run. So 12v on pin 10 sounds right.

      Sorry for not having a solution, but I hope this helps you troubleshoot your issues.

      -Alex

    5. Member broke..'s Avatar
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      77 rabbit 2door (16v swap in progress) 95 jetta aba 5speed daily
      08-07-2012 07:30 PM #5
      i have two known good boxs plus the knock box from my original wiring and that did not help.

      would the next step be replacing the ecu? (oxygen sensor control unit)

      and i do not have fuel or fuel pump prime.

      i want to fuel before i mess with figuring out if it has spark.

      one problem at a time.
      A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

    6. 08-08-2012 04:07 PM #6
      I haven't had the stock CIS-E for a while now, but I believe that the fuel pump doesn't come on unless the engine is turning. So there has to be a signal coming from the hall sender in the distributor for the Oxygen Sensor Control unit to turn on the fuel pump. Can you just pull out the distributor and turn it by hand to see if the fuel pump comes on?

      -Alex

    7. Member Angrygilmore's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 11:48 PM #7
      put the horn relay in the fuel pump relay spot and see if she starts if it does its the the knock box or wiring if not check your fuel pressure

    8. 08-09-2012 05:00 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Angrygilmore View Post
      put the horn relay in the fuel pump relay spot and see if she starts if it does its the the knock box or wiring if not check your fuel pressure
      If it starts, you just proved you had a bad relay and everything else is fine. If it doesn't start, it can be the knock box, oxygen sensor box, hall sender, fuel pump, ignition switch, etc etc.

    9. Member broke..'s Avatar
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      77 rabbit 2door (16v swap in progress) 95 jetta aba 5speed daily
      08-11-2012 12:15 AM #9
      i have no pump prime when i turn the key to the run position.

      it should prime for a few seconds then shut off.

      i want to know reasons why it wouldn't.

      i'm in the proces of moving and i need this car running before september 26th when i start class.
      A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

    10. Member broke..'s Avatar
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      08-18-2012 01:35 AM #10
      up top
      A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

    11. 08-18-2012 09:37 PM #11
      Once again, have you checked to make sure the hall sensor has 12v? Have you pulled out the distributor and turned it to see if it sends a signal to the knock box?

      -Alex

    12. Member broke..'s Avatar
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      08-20-2012 03:26 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by 20v_boost View Post
      Once again, have you checked to make sure the hall sensor has 12v? Have you pulled out the distributor and turned it to see if it sends a signal to the knock box?

      -Alex
      if you read what i posted i did that before i even made the thread.

      and am i wrong in assuming if hall sensor is not getting power it wont send a signal to knock box anyway? since it has no power with which to send a signal.

      Quote Originally Posted by broke.. View Post
      I have been trying to get my 16v swap started and the knock box is only sending 1.3 volts to the hall sender and full battery power to the the fuel pump relay (which should be the ground for the ignition switch current needed to trip the relay)
      first post first thing i said...

      i made thread because i'm stumped, not because i want you to hold my hand through all the trouble shooting steps from the bentley manual
      A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

    13. 08-20-2012 08:27 AM #13
      Yes, I did read your first post. I read about the 1.3 volts. But I said in my first post that you're measuring it wrong. You said . .

      at pin 9 a wire that is also brown with a yellow tracer leaves the knock box and provides power to the Hall sensor.

      Pin 9 is where the hall sensor SIGNAL enters the knock box. You should only get 12v between the outer pins of the hall sensor's 3 pin connector. So between pins 1 and 3 on the hall sensor plug. Do you get what I'm saying?

      -Alex

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