Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 35 of 58

    Thread: Ms1 tuning

    1. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-25-2012 08:40 PM #1
      So I recently got my car on the road. It idles and cruises well but has no pull what so ever.
      I'm wondering if maybe my ignition table needs some adjusting? I gathered as much info as I could off of here as to what would work well but I feel like its off a bit.

      I'm running the ms1 v3 for spark only
      The motor is:
      1.8 16v
      82mm je 11:5:1 pistons
      Freshly rebuilt head, decked and
      Mildly ported
      Autotech cams
      R1 bike carbs
      Header w/ no cat
      TT 2.25 exhaust

      Heres my table

    2. Member SirSpectre's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2011
      Location
      Milwaukee, WI
      Posts
      1,086
      Vehicles
      Megasquirt 3x Powered 2000 Cabrio 2.0 \ 2013 FRS
      07-25-2012 09:16 PM #2
      I think your timing is TOO advanced. I dont have personal experience (until this weekend anyway) for 16vs, but The highest timing advance I have seen on them is 26. Try pulling your timing way back and see if it adds more fuel is VE analyze. Keep on pulling back until it takes it away in both directions.

      EDIT: Just saw you are on carbs. Watch your wide band then and see if it leans or riches. If it leans out then you are doing good.

    3. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-25-2012 09:50 PM #3
      It is running a tad rich under load. At idle it's perfect, should I pull timing from the entire table or just the upper end?

      Thanks

    4. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-25-2012 09:51 PM #4
      Is the other axis kPa or TPS?
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    5. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-25-2012 09:52 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      Is the other axis kPa or TPS?
      kPa

    6. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-25-2012 09:58 PM #6
      Do you really have that much of a kPa range? Maybe rescale that part of the graph some.

      And I second the thoughts about how much advance you have.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    7. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-25-2012 10:39 PM #7
      I copied a table I found on here a while back hoping it would get me started.
      I will rescale it and go from there
      Thanks
      Last edited by oldschool eighty8; 07-25-2012 at 10:43 PM.

    8. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 07:25 AM #8
      So I cut the advance back , still behaving the same.
      Should I take more out?


    9. Member sdezego's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 23rd, 2004
      Location
      Hurricane Central FL
      Posts
      11,288
      Vehicles
      '90 Corrado | '62 Harley Panhead
      07-26-2012 08:20 AM #9
      Make sure you timing is actually changing and not Fixed (via IGn settings which is used to verify Trigger angle, etc).

      Check it with a light.
      - Set it to fixed and verify what is on your light matches what TunerStudio Reads. Adj Trigger angle to match.
      - Re-enable to use IGN table and verify at a few RPMs (lower and higher) and make sure what you are reading on your adjustable timing light matches your map

      Then start tweaking map.
      Build: Project sc2020

      My G60 now on MS3 | 4Cyl Torque Plate Rental | 02M Mounts

    10. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 19th, 1999
      Location
      Oxford, PA
      Posts
      35,454
      Vehicles
      03 325i
      07-26-2012 09:42 AM #10
      Agreed, sync timing and try again. For WOT timing on a 16v I have found 30-32deg to be optimal for mild cams, and sometimes more for bigger cams but depends on compression, fuel, etc. The low MAP areas can probably use some more timing, that high spot in the lower right corner can most likely slide to the left a bit. I also agree that unless you can pull that much vacuum, to move the lower bins up a bit and adjust the range to fit the range of the motor a little better. Seldom do I see less then a 20kpa bin unless I'm not using decel fuel cut.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    11. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 09:54 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      Make sure you timing is actually changing and not Fixed (via IGn settings which is used to verify Trigger angle, etc).

      Check it with a light.
      - Set it to fixed and verify what is on your light matches what TunerStudio Reads. Adj Trigger angle to match.
      - Re-enable to use IGN table and verify at a few RPMs (lower and higher) and make sure what you are reading on your adjustable timing light matches your map

      Then start tweaking map.
      I made sure to put the "-10" back in but I didn't check to make sure it's working properly.
      So at idle with the table on the timing light should show what I have as a value set in the table or what I have the distributor set at? Because they are not the same. Distributor is timed at 6 dbtc

    12. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-26-2012 10:26 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by oldschool eighty8 View Post
      So at idle with the table on the timing light should show what I have as a value set in the table
      This if you are running off the table.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    13. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 19th, 1999
      Location
      Oxford, PA
      Posts
      35,454
      Vehicles
      03 325i
      07-26-2012 10:36 AM #13
      Yes, but I would sync it with a fixed angle set in software, you can get some drift due to interpolation if you don't.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    14. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 12:54 PM #14
      Ok so I re-read the manual I didnt sync it right the first time. I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly before I attempt to sync it again. I need to adjust the trigger angle to get the gauge in tunerstudio to match what I have the distributor set at, correct?

    15. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-26-2012 01:08 PM #15
      No, set the MS to a fixed angle, set the motor to that angle. So, if you have a FW with a mark at 6*BTDC, set the fixed angle to 6*, then set the motor to 6* BTDC. Then go back to the spark table, the motor timing should match the table.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    16. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 01:13 PM #16
      Ok that's the way I did it the first time.

    17. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 04:23 PM #17
      Sync'd the distro and ecu again. I don't have an extra set of hands tonight to check the timing at different rpm's but I already think its not following the map. Monitoring the gauges my kpa stays at 97 weather it's idling or revving. That should be following the rpms as they go up and down shouldn't it?

      I did check the timing at idle with the table on and it the idle timing is what I have the 800 rpm column set at now
      Last edited by oldschool eighty8; 07-26-2012 at 04:27 PM.

    18. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-26-2012 04:58 PM #18
      Sounds like the map is not connected to the motor. Check your vacuum line(s).
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    19. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 05:42 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      Sounds like the map is not connected to the motor. Check your vacuum line(s).
      I only have one vac line. For the break booster and it is secure.

    20. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-26-2012 06:04 PM #20
      Well, 97 would be pretty close to atmosphere near sea level. Have you checked to see if the MAP sensor will respond to a vacuum? I use a syringe or a vacuum pump or by mouth.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    21. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 06:25 PM #21
      I honistly don't think there is one in it, this ecu is really bare bones it's set up for single spark only. I know it works because I got it and the carbs from a friend of mine who ran it for a summer with no issues. Only difference between our setups is the motor itself.

    22. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-26-2012 07:06 PM #22
      It has a barb for the vacuum line? That is the MAP sensor, if you don't have a MAP sensor, the only other way is with a TPS input and that would be on the alpha-n option.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    23. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 08:26 PM #23
      No barb on it.

    24. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-26-2012 08:36 PM #24
      Can you post a pic of the board? Did this have an external MAP?
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    25. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 19th, 1999
      Location
      Oxford, PA
      Posts
      35,454
      Vehicles
      03 325i
      07-26-2012 10:09 PM #25
      A v3 will just have a hole with the barb just inside the case.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    26. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-26-2012 10:34 PM #26
      I can take it back out and get some pictures of it, I don't remember seeing a map inside it when I opened it up, or a hole on the outside where it should be but I will look again

      Thanks

    27. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-27-2012 06:12 AM #27

    28. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-27-2012 10:42 AM #28
      MAP sensor should be mounted on the bottom of board, if you look in the hole on the end plate, do you see it? It looks like it is mounted as the holes for U2 look be have something soldered in them.
      Last edited by ps2375; 07-27-2012 at 10:47 AM.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    29. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 19th, 1999
      Location
      Oxford, PA
      Posts
      35,454
      Vehicles
      03 325i
      07-27-2012 10:54 AM #29
      Should be there, I see pins and solder.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    30. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-27-2012 01:14 PM #30
      Yup, I feel like an idiot. It's in there thanks guys.

      Is it sensitive to line size like a digi1 ecu? I have some leftover boost line that should reach.

    31. Member ps2375's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 13th, 2003
      Location
      Meridian, ID
      Posts
      11,446
      Vehicles
      80 Rabbit(DEAD), 94 Golf
      07-27-2012 01:18 PM #31
      any line should work.
      Tradition is the art of making the same mistake repeatedly, on purpose.

      FS:MkI low back front seat upholstery(new)

    32. Member SirSpectre's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2011
      Location
      Milwaukee, WI
      Posts
      1,086
      Vehicles
      Megasquirt 3x Powered 2000 Cabrio 2.0 \ 2013 FRS
      07-27-2012 01:41 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by ps2375 View Post
      any line should work.
      Any line, any length, assuming it doesn't collapse under vacuum. Ask me how I know Boost line will be fine.

    33. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-30-2012 08:10 AM #33
      Vac line hooked up it's now using the table, I adjusted the kpa range a tad and pulled 5* from the whole table, adding alittle bit in the lower areas. It idles in the 1000 rpm column at 40-53 kpa.
      Deffinatly feels better driving but still off.

      I'm slowly trying to work my way up from idle, not really concerned about the upper end yet as the motor only has about 20 miles on it.

    34. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 17th, 2009
      Location
      Way up theah, Maine
      Posts
      2,736
      Vehicles
      Mk6 tdi, Corrado
      07-31-2012 07:35 AM #34
      Still runs like crap

      It's a little better in the low end but as soon as it gets to 3k it falls right on its face.

      I'm thinking about grabbing the spark map off spitfireefi for the 1.8 16v but I'm not sure if it's going to be any better. I'm close to 12:1 compression with the block and head re-decked, and that's for stock compression.

      Any thoughts?

    35. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 19th, 1999
      Location
      Oxford, PA
      Posts
      35,454
      Vehicles
      03 325i
      07-31-2012 08:48 AM #35
      Grab a log w afr, it could just need fuel tuning.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •