Ms1 tuning

[oldschool eighty8]

So I recently got my car on the road. It idles and cruises well but has no pull what so ever.
I'm wondering if maybe my ignition table needs some adjusting? I gathered as much info as I could off of here as to what would work well but I feel like its off a bit.

I'm running the ms1 v3 for spark only
The motor is:
1.8 16v
82mm je 11:5:1 pistons
Freshly rebuilt head, decked and
Mildly ported
Autotech cams
R1 bike carbs
Header w/ no cat
TT 2.25 exhaust

Heres my table

[SirSpectre]

I think your timing is TOO advanced. I dont have personal experience (until this weekend anyway) for 16vs, but The highest timing advance I have seen on them is 26. Try pulling your timing way back and see if it adds more fuel is VE analyze. Keep on pulling back until it takes it away in both directions.

EDIT: Just saw you are on carbs. Watch your wide band then and see if it leans or riches. If it leans out then you are doing good.

[oldschool eighty8]

It is running a tad rich under load. At idle it's perfect, should I pull timing from the entire table or just the upper end?

Thanks

[ps2375]

Is the other axis kPa or TPS?

[oldschool eighty8]

Is the other axis kPa or TPS?

kPa

[ps2375]

Do you really have that much of a kPa range? Maybe rescale that part of the graph some.

And I second the thoughts about how much advance you have.

[oldschool eighty8]

I copied a table I found on here a while back hoping it would get me started.
I will rescale it and go from there
Thanks

[oldschool eighty8]

So I cut the advance back , still behaving the same.
Should I take more out?

[sdezego]

Make sure you timing is actually changing and not Fixed (via IGn settings which is used to verify Trigger angle, etc).

Check it with a light.
- Set it to fixed and verify what is on your light matches what TunerStudio Reads. Adj Trigger angle to match.
- Re-enable to use IGN table and verify at a few RPMs (lower and higher) and make sure what you are reading on your adjustable timing light matches your map

Then start tweaking map.

[need_a_VR6]

Agreed, sync timing and try again. For WOT timing on a 16v I have found 30-32deg to be optimal for mild cams, and sometimes more for bigger cams but depends on compression, fuel, etc. The low MAP areas can probably use some more timing, that high spot in the lower right corner can most likely slide to the left a bit. I also agree that unless you can pull that much vacuum, to move the lower bins up a bit and adjust the range to fit the range of the motor a little better. Seldom do I see less then a 20kpa bin unless I'm not using decel fuel cut.

[oldschool eighty8]

Make sure you timing is actually changing and not Fixed (via IGn settings which is used to verify Trigger angle, etc).

Check it with a light.
- Set it to fixed and verify what is on your light matches what TunerStudio Reads. Adj Trigger angle to match.
- Re-enable to use IGN table and verify at a few RPMs (lower and higher) and make sure what you are reading on your adjustable timing light matches your map

Then start tweaking map.

I made sure to put the "-10" back in but I didn't check to make sure it's working properly.
So at idle with the table on the timing light should show what I have as a value set in the table or what I have the distributor set at? Because they are not the same. Distributor is timed at 6 dbtc

[ps2375]

So at idle with the table on the timing light should show what I have as a value set in the table

This if you are running off the table.

[need_a_VR6]

Yes, but I would sync it with a fixed angle set in software, you can get some drift due to interpolation if you don't.

[oldschool eighty8]

Ok so I re-read the manual I didnt sync it right the first time. I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly before I attempt to sync it again. I need to adjust the trigger angle to get the gauge in tunerstudio to match what I have the distributor set at, correct?

[ps2375]

No, set the MS to a fixed angle, set the motor to that angle. So, if you have a FW with a mark at 6*BTDC, set the fixed angle to 6*, then set the motor to 6* BTDC. Then go back to the spark table, the motor timing should match the table.

[oldschool eighty8]

Ok that's the way I did it the first time.

[oldschool eighty8]

Sync'd the distro and ecu again. I don't have an extra set of hands tonight to check the timing at different rpm's but I already think its not following the map. Monitoring the gauges my kpa stays at 97 weather it's idling or revving. That should be following the rpms as they go up and down shouldn't it?

I did check the timing at idle with the table on and it the idle timing is what I have the 800 rpm column set at now

[ps2375]

Sounds like the map is not connected to the motor. Check your vacuum line(s).

[oldschool eighty8]

Sounds like the map is not connected to the motor. Check your vacuum line(s).

I only have one vac line. For the break booster and it is secure.

[ps2375]

Well, 97 would be pretty close to atmosphere near sea level. Have you checked to see if the MAP sensor will respond to a vacuum? I use a syringe or a vacuum pump or by mouth.

[oldschool eighty8]

I honistly don't think there is one in it, this ecu is really bare bones it's set up for single spark only. I know it works because I got it and the carbs from a friend of mine who ran it for a summer with no issues. Only difference between our setups is the motor itself.

[ps2375]

It has a barb for the vacuum line? That is the MAP sensor, if you don't have a MAP sensor, the only other way is with a TPS input and that would be on the alpha-n option.

[oldschool eighty8]

No barb on it.

[ps2375]

Can you post a pic of the board? Did this have an external MAP?

[need_a_VR6]

A v3 will just have a hole with the barb just inside the case.

[oldschool eighty8]

I can take it back out and get some pictures of it, I don't remember seeing a map inside it when I opened it up, or a hole on the outside where it should be but I will look again

Thanks

[oldschool eighty8]

[ps2375]

MAP sensor should be mounted on the bottom of board, if you look in the hole on the end plate, do you see it? It looks like it is mounted as the holes for U2 look be have something soldered in them.

[need_a_VR6]

Should be there, I see pins and solder.

[oldschool eighty8]

Yup, I feel like an idiot. It's in there thanks guys.

Is it sensitive to line size like a digi1 ecu? I have some leftover boost line that should reach.

[ps2375]

any line should work.

[SirSpectre]

any line should work.

Any line, any length, assuming it doesn't collapse under vacuum. Ask me how I know Boost line will be fine.

[oldschool eighty8]

Vac line hooked up it's now using the table, I adjusted the kpa range a tad and pulled 5* from the whole table, adding alittle bit in the lower areas. It idles in the 1000 rpm column at 40-53 kpa.
Deffinatly feels better driving but still off.

I'm slowly trying to work my way up from idle, not really concerned about the upper end yet as the motor only has about 20 miles on it.

[oldschool eighty8]

Still runs like crap

It's a little better in the low end but as soon as it gets to 3k it falls right on its face.

I'm thinking about grabbing the spark map off spitfireefi for the 1.8 16v but I'm not sure if it's going to be any better. I'm close to 12:1 compression with the block and head re-decked, and that's for stock compression.

Any thoughts?

[need_a_VR6]

Grab a log w afr, it could just need fuel tuning.