Sales manager tried to talk me out of buying a car.

[PecosBill]

So, I go into the local dealer tonight, and I tell them that I want to see a CW TDI they have listed on the website, and the salesman tells me, "oh, that car won't actually be here until the end of August." I look at him like "WTF?", ans ask why the hell do you list it then?" He said he had no idea why the marketing department does that. So I ask him what they do have. They had a black one. I said OK, well, I have a quote from the internet sales department at Stevens Creek VW, and can you match it. He goes to the manager and says, no, because they added the factory nav system at the dealer, and it is more expensive that way. I asked why anybody would pay more for a car with a unit installed at the dealership insteasd of the factory? He said it didn't make sense to him either.

Fast forward to about 15 minutes after I leave the stealership, and the internet manager calls me. He then spends 20 minutes telling me why I don't want a TDI, and I definately don't want a sunroof. Both are wayyy to much trouple, and the TDI never actually pays for itself. He says what I want is a plain jane 2.5. I told him that in that case I don't want a VW at all. I then mention that I'll be going up north tomorrow and I'll check out what they have, but thanked him for his time. I then met my wife and kids for dinner, and through the whole dinner, this same "sales manager" sends text after text telling me that I really don't want to buy that car, but what I want is a strippy... or he can get me a deal on any other car that their network of dealers sells.

Wow!

Now, someone please tell me about this trouble prone sunroof.

[toneman]

Do yourself a favor and go through internet sales at Niello VW in Sacramento. No pressure, internet price, and they'll even deliver the car to you in the bay area.

[rootrider]

what he meant was "we make more money on this 2.5.. so you should buy that one instead"... or something like that

[PecosBill]

what he meant was "we make more money on this 2.5.. so you should buy that one instead"... or something like that

That's what I figured. It seems they are more helpful at Sheppard VW in Eugene, and I have to go up there this afternoon anyway.

[Outrider6]

The dealer is clearly acting in his best interests, not yours. But that doesn't mean that he's wrong.

VW has the best information on what fails (and how often) regarding sunroofs. They don't have to share that info and probably won't. Anecdotally, what fails is the sunscreen, drainage, and the glass itself. My family has two pano-equipped JSWs. One has been problem free, while the other had bad rear drain lines. A fixed steel roof won't have any problems, nor will it have the rewards of view and ventilation that come with a pano.

I don't use the roof all that often. I've got a sunshield in place all summer because even with the factory screen you get plenty of light and heat coming through the top. The sunscreen comes off in the fall.

Whether a TDI is right for you depends on what you want and how you drive. I bought a TDI JSW because I wanted a diesel. It's a great car and the engine has loads of torque. It gets better mileage than a gasser. But it's not astonishingly better the way I drive it. I figure where I get 40 mpg that a 2.5 would get about 30 mpg. The 2.5 has better HP, but less torque. Some find it "rough." But the 2.5 is much less complex, since it doesn't have a diesel HPFP, nor a diesel particulate filter in the exhaust, nor a turbo. So those expensive parts will never break down on a 2.5.

There's also the matter of driving patterns. The gasser is more tolerant of shorter drives than a diesel is, since diesels really benefit from getting up to operating temp and then staying there. I generally won't take my TDI out unless I expect the engine to run continuously for 30 minutes or more. The 2.5 is better on short trips.

Get the car that's right for how you drive, not what the dealer tells you. But the 2.5 isn't junk. For some people it's probably a better choice than the TDI, even with the TDI's better MPG. But you're in the best position to figure out what's right for you--especially when you know the relative strengths and weaknesses of both engines.

[PecosBill]

The dealer is clearly acting in his best interests, not yours. But that doesn't mean that he's wrong.

VW has the best information on what fails (and how often) regarding sunroofs. They don't have to share that info and probably won't. Anecdotally, what fails is the sunscreen, drainage, and the glass itself. My family has two pano-equipped JSWs. One has been problem free, while the other had bad rear drain lines. A fixed steel roof won't have any problems, nor will it have the rewards of view and ventilation that come with a pano.

I don't use the roof all that often. I've got a sunshield in place all summer because even with the factory screen you get plenty of light and heat coming through the top. The sunscreen comes off in the fall.

Whether a TDI is right for you depends on what you want and how you drive. I bought a TDI JSW because I wanted a diesel. It's a great car and the engine has loads of torque. It gets better mileage than a gasser. But it's not astonishingly better the way I drive it. I figure where I get 40 mpg that a 2.5 would get about 30 mpg. The 2.5 has better HP, but less torque. Some find it "rough." But the 2.5 is much less complex, since it doesn't have a diesel HPFP, nor a diesel particulate filter in the exhaust, nor a turbo. So those expensive parts will never break down on a 2.5.

There's also the matter of driving patterns. The gasser is more tolerant of shorter drives than a diesel is, since diesels really benefit from getting up to operating temp and then staying there. I generally won't take my TDI out unless I expect the engine to run continuously for 30 minutes or more. The 2.5 is better on short trips.

Get the car that's right for how you drive, not what the dealer tells you. But the 2.5 isn't junk. For some people it's probably a better choice than the TDI, even with the TDI's better MPG. But you're in the best position to figure out what's right for you--especially when you know the relative strengths and weaknesses of both engines.

Like I told the guy, I've owned a lot of diesels, and I've just always been one of those quarky diesel guys. I told him that if I didn't buy a TDI, I wouldn't even buy a VW, and that I understood sunroofs are more prone to problems than a steel roof, but I've had plenty of those to, and that's what I want. The guy wouldn't let up, almost trying to make me feel stupid for wanting this car. He asked how long I keep cars, and I said I usually keep them a long time, he said, "well, this isn't the car for you." He then asked how much I drive, "I said, well, doing business all over the state, plus driving a lot into CA, I drive quite a bit," and he said that "you definitely don't want a TDI then." Then he said, that they don't really get the mileage that people say they do, and that I would really be happier with an SE, or better yet, an S, and it would save me "$6000.00".

It seems he was figuring his margin was a lot better with selling me an S, instead of matching another dealer's price on a TDI.

[yamato72]

This dealer is not worth your time, I'm surprised that today, with so many shopping tools and online communities like this, that car dealers still try crap like this.

[Aonarch]

I get 23 mpg in my 2.5l. Pretty pathetic. I got 38 mpg with the same driving style in my old golf Tdi. As long as you take a weekly highway trip the diesel is fine. My commute is 3 miles, but on the weekends I drive 100 miles.

[Outrider6]

Like I told the guy, I've owned a lot of diesels, and I've just always been one of those quarky diesel guys. I told him that if I didn't buy a TDI, I wouldn't even buy a VW, and that I understood sunroofs are more prone to problems than a steel roof, but I've had plenty of those to, and that's what I want...

... As long as you take a weekly highway trip the diesel is fine. My commute is 3 miles, but on the weekends I drive 100 miles.

That 23 mpg number is scary low. (Not doubting you, just sounds a lot lower than others report.). I've seen talk that VW will drop the 2.5 in favor of a 1.8T. Could be they're looking for better MPGs

[casseric]

That 23 mpg number is scary low. (Not doubting you, just sounds a lot lower than others report.). I've seen talk that VW will drop the 2.5 in favor of a 1.8T.could be they're looking for better mpgs

I get 27/34 with my 2010 2.5 S MT - no complaints at all - love the car.

I believe the are changing to the 1.8T on the Jetta Sedan only

[Aonarch]

That 23 mpg number is scary low. (Not doubting you, just sounds a lot lower than others report.). I've seen talk that VW will drop the 2.5 in favor of a 1.8T.could be they're looking for better mpgs

Yup i hand calc and I use fuelly.com.

It is in a Beetle, which is a rolling brick. My Golf 2.5L gets about 27/33mpg.

[PecosBill]

Lithia's loss, and Sheppard's in Eugene's gain. They matched the best price and were a breeze to deal with.

[yamato72]

Lithia's loss, and Sheppard's in Eugene's gain. They matched the best price and were a breeze to deal with.

[Aonarch]

Lithia's loss, and Sheppard's in Eugene's gain. They matched the best price and were a breeze to deal with.

[haunted reality]

I get 27/34 with my 2010 2.5 S MT - no complaints at all - love the car.

I believe the are changing to the 1.8T on the Jetta Sedan only

I'm about there too probably closer to 25/30 for me. Not too bad I also looked at the TDI, but I just don't drive enough to justify the $6k premium. I was the opposite when I got mine, I got the only manual gasser on the ground in the area, dealers had plenty of manual diesels. They always tried to talk me into the TDI.