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    Thread: mk4 8vt - MS2

    1. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 02:58 PM #1
      hello fellas, i've been having a bit of issues with my 8vt on megasquirt 2 v3
      background on the car,

      AEG stock bottom end with head spacer 9:1
      P&P with TT 276
      42# greentops
      50trim garret turbo .48ar
      Custom SRI
      MS2 v3

      Currently the car is running great, ive had tons of help from a friend of mine but we can't seem to figure out whats wrong with the rev limiter. Rev limiter is set to 7300soft cut and 7400 hard cut but the issue is that when under boost (wot) it cuts out at 5800. however when under partial thrttole (45%tps or so) it revs all the way up to where its suppose to.
      we are short of ideas of what could the issue be. if anyone has any input or anything it would be much apreciated it.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    2. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 07:45 PM #2
      Also forgot to mention this but we were messing with the Accel enrichment wizard we managed to raise the limiter at WOT to 6500ish but we cant figure out what else we could do to make it rev to the designated rev limiter. i'm including a screen shot of what some of the stuff looks like.



      thanks for any input
      One slow MK4 8vT

    3. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 10:37 PM #3
      i still think youre having some sort of boost control issue...
      the couple boost runs near the end of the file dont look right. boost drops off for no reason at 6100rpm. then the pull right after that it looks to me like youre hitting the boost cut.

      have you tried running the wastegate just off spring pressure?

    4. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      07-30-2012 10:59 PM #4
      On that note make sure overboost fuel cut is off.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
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    5. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 02:10 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      i still think youre having some sort of boost control issue...
      the couple boost runs near the end of the file dont look right. boost drops off for no reason at 6100rpm. then the pull right after that it looks to me like youre hitting the boost cut.

      have you tried running the wastegate just off spring pressure?
      haven't tried running just the wastegate off the spring pressure(which is 15) and also the boost cut is on but way above the limit of the map sensor or the boost pressure set by boost controller(18-19psi)

      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      On that note make sure overboost fuel cut is off.
      Weird thing is it revs to 7400 if i do partial throttle and we managed to raise from 5800 to 6500 by messing with acell enrichment but we aren't sure what else could be causing this. but i Will try to just running wastegate pressure.


      oh and when we were tuning we would hit boost cut and it sounded differently then when it drops once it hits 6500. It sounds more like if i was letting off the gas..?
      One slow MK4 8vT

    6. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 08:52 AM #6
      Get some logs of it revving clean at part throttle and cutting at high load and post your msq as well.

      Also make sure you are running a fairly tight plug gap on the stock coil.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
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    7. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 11:08 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post

      Also make sure you are running a fairly tight plug gap on the stock coil.
      forgot about that, good call

    8. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 01:00 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Get some logs of it revving clean at part throttle and cutting at high load and post your msq as well.

      Also make sure you are running a fairly tight plug gap on the stock coil.
      Currently running msd coil and gap is at 26... Is that good or should i go smaller?
      One slow MK4 8vT

    9. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 01:07 PM #9
      I Will get some logs part throttle in 3rd and fourth.. Its strange though but when Im doing logs, everything seems to freeze and not the entire pull shows up. but i Will def try my best.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    10. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 01:12 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by kevinescobar15 View Post
      Currently running msd coil and gap is at 26... Is that good or should i go smaller?
      id go smaller, if it clears things up then start opening it up until you run into problems again.

      ive had to run some NA cars at 24...

      try 22 to start and see what happens

    11. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 01:21 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      id go smaller, if it clears things up then start opening it up until you run into problems again.

      ive had to run some NA cars at 24...

      try 22 to start and see what happens
      Okay i will try that small. oh and quick dumb question need_a_vr6 said post the msq, Im not sure what that is and Im not really sure how to post the logs here but Im sure i can figure that one out.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    12. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 05:22 PM #12
      The msq is the tune file, go to file, save as and BAM! there it is.
      -Paul
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    13. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 07:35 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      The msq is the tune file, go to file, save as and BAM! there it is.
      oh yeah silly me. i have that already. so bad news, i did the logs today and car started throwing ALOT blue smoke. i might of done something to the motor. i know my valve stem seals are worn out and i get a bit of blue smoke in the morning but now its throwing smoke more often and it puffs blue smoke when cruising also, but it goes away something... could it be, cracked rings, or piston, or the valve stem seals just went out all the way?
      One slow MK4 8vT

    14. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 07:37 PM #14
      I'm not sure how to upload the logs here, need_a_vr6 if you want i can email them to you.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    15. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      07-31-2012 10:54 PM #15
      Sure kandpperformance at gmail dot com.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
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    16. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 12:49 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Sure kandpperformance at gmail dot com.
      email sent
      One slow MK4 8vT

    17. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 01:27 AM #17
      the only thing that jumps out at me right off the bat on the part throttle logs is the ability of the thing to maintain boost and not spike when you do this at part throttle.

    18. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 01:37 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      the only thing that jumps out at me right off the bat on the part throttle logs is the ability of the thing to maintain boost and not spike when you do this at part throttle.
      Yeah. i don't understand..any ideas on what it could be? What i don't understand is why part throttle rpm is good but anything above 50% tps doesn't go above 6500.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    19. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 12:41 PM #19
      Your MAP drops before the TPS does, most likely spark blowout as I don't see you losing sync or anything else odd there.
      -Paul
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    20. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 01:02 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Your MAP drops before the TPS does, most likely spark blowout as I don't see you losing sync or anything else odd there.
      How can this be corrected?
      One slow MK4 8vT

    21. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 01:04 PM #21
      close up that gap, maybe try colder plugs for fun if that doesnt work...

    22. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 01:48 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      close up that gap, maybe try colder plugs for fun if that doesnt work...
      So its nothing ecu related then? Im using the bkr7e. i Will try to close that gap once i figure out what i blew out. Then ill get back to it.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    23. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 03:39 PM #23
      There's nothing in the logs I see at all, it might be worth doing a tooth or composite log during a pull and see if there's lost sync that the ecu doesn't see. Also sent you a note over email about the AFRs, they are very strange.
      -Paul
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    24. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 03:41 PM #24
      yeah i had no luck getting the AFRs to show up in the logs... anything other than apparently random numbers

    25. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 04:00 PM #25
      I was getting ~3-12afr in general, not sure why.
      -Paul
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    26. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 04:16 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      I was getting ~3-12afr in general, not sure why.
      reason why is because the ground on the gauge is different than everuthing else on ms. however afrs under boost are good. varies from 10.8 - 11.7

      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      There's nothing in the logs I see at all, it might be worth doing a tooth or composite log during a pull and see if there's lost sync that the ecu doesn't see. Also sent you a note over email about the AFRs, they are very strange.
      When you say it might be worth doing a tooth what do you mean by that?
      One slow MK4 8vT

    27. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 04:18 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by kevinescobar15 View Post
      reason why is because the ground on the gauge is different than everuthing else on ms.
      you need to fix that. the wideband stuff has to be grounded at the same spot as MS otherwise whatever numbers youre seeing can potentially be 1-1.5 points off...

    28. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 05:36 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      you need to fix that. the wideband stuff has to be grounded at the same spot as MS otherwise whatever numbers youre seeing can potentially be 1-1.5 points off...
      I understand but we have the tune only based off of tps and the ve table. for now we aren't using the afr table.. Although i am changing the ground once i pull the head out since i need to replace piston rings.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    29. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 05:52 PM #29
      right, but the only way you know if that tune is correct is by either watching the AFR gauge, or using it as a feedback for autotune.
      in either case it could be leading you down the wrong path if its off

    30. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 08:50 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      right, but the only way you know if that tune is correct is by either watching the AFR gauge, or using it as a feedback for autotune.
      in either case it could be leading you down the wrong path if its off
      yeah we have been using the gauge and the gauge is good, the only down side to not having the ground where ms is grounded is that on the computer it shows something different. soon ill be fixing that, that way we can start using AFR's to tune better.

      So, today i was checking what the issue was with the car throwing so much smoke after doing those logs and came up with this...

      Comp test:
      Cylinder one: 140
      Cylinder two: 145
      Cylinder three: 146
      Cylinder four: 147

      Also spark plugs come out clean, no oil residue.

      So now, i'm thinking that the valve stem seals just went out on me all the way. The car was already smoking a little in the morning but now its more constant but it kind of freaked me out when i saw that much smoke after those few pulls.

      Re-gaped spark plugs to 25 and now ill see what that does to the RPM
      One slow MK4 8vT

    31. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 11:24 PM #31
      You wb cant even read 3afr on gas, something else is up. You using the narrowband output to the ms without changing it in lm programmer?

      In any case without afr reading right in the logs its hard for random guys on the internet to help withkout asking, wtf is up with the afr a bunch!
      -Paul
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    32. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-02-2012 01:04 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      You wb cant even read 3afr on gas, something else is up. You using the narrowband output to the ms without changing it in lm programmer?

      In any case without afr reading right in the logs its hard for random guys on the internet to help withkout asking, wtf is up with the afr a bunch!
      Yeah sorry about that.. ill fix it asap and get back to you guys, i just thought maybe there was something else up with it that you guys could see wrong with the msq
      One slow MK4 8vT

    33. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 09:56 PM #33
      Hey, sorry for the delay in the response. so the issue wasn't anything ecu related. everything pointed out to be the wastegate. faulty wg. if i run it with out the boost controller, just off of the wg spring (10psi) then it revs smoodly up.to 7400. Currently im running 14psi and it seems to hold good but i can't go any higher. now is the time to buy a new wastegate.

      Now my other question is, i have been looking into adding an idle stabilizer but im not really sure where to start from? From what car can i get it out of that is compatible and easy to use with ms. if you guys have any thoughts on this, would be great appreciate it.
      One slow MK4 8vT

    34. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-30-2012 10:51 PM #34
      2 wire from an aba or vr6 is about as simple as it gets.
      -Paul
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    35. Member kevinescobar15's Avatar
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      08-31-2012 03:16 AM #35
      Does it hook up straight to ms through a pin or how would that work? I'm clueless when it comes to isv's systems.
      One slow MK4 8vT

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