I NEED MORE POWER moded tdi

[mk3dream]

hey guys iv posted on here a few times now for my mk3 ahu tdi

i want to know if theres a way for me to up the fuel being delivered via vag come or uni settings..
i will not do the hammer mod and as im making about 22 psi without a tune i dont see the point in spending money on one yet.


related mods
3" pipe
giles ahu pump
giles euro injectors
p flow intake
erg/ egr cooler delete

any help or direction would be great

[85_305]

You can throw all the fuel at it you want... it's not gonna request more boost/timing/anything-inbetween until you get a tune on there.

[8v-of-fury]

Is it the stock ko3 on there? how many miles are on it?

22psi is out of its efficiency range, and it is not helping performance any running it at that boost.

Do some book learning before you blow your siht up dude. More boost is not always better.. Sure it is if you have the engine to handle it, the fuel for it and the proper cooling. Oh and #1 a turb that can handle that high of boost.

Look it up, k03 is good for about 18psi maximum. You are gonna toast that thing in short order. I bet you $20 if you lower the boost so the waste gate will open around 15-16 so that you are in the turbos efficiency range (and so the spikes of 18-20 will sustainable) and get a BETTER inter-cooler on there, maybe even an Air-2-Water.. you will be making more power.. Guarantee it.

Without a turbo and a tune.. You are pretty much maxed out for power right now.

[85_305]

I agree... 18-19psi is all you want on the KKK.

[theman53]

I didn't think the hammer mod was for the AHU, I was thinking that was the ALH that used that?

At any rate, go to the top of the page and click on Malone tuning. You will find your power there.

Fuel isn't always about more of it, most of the time it is when of it. When you inject fuel is sometimes more important than how much.

I have an IDI Giles pump and have had gov. modded home pumps with turned up fuel and all around tinkered on. The modded pumps run good, but the machining and work Giles does with a pump makes the fuel come on at different times. Giles pump makes more power at the same RPM as the modded pumps with less smoke and fuel. The IDI didn't have an ECU, so the pump is its own brain. This is what a tune will do for you, since you have an ECU.

[85_305]

AHU is basically an alh... so yes, you can hammer mod them. Although, that's NOT the proper way to BOOST performance. Its more of a way to keep things in-spec.

[theman53]

No, ALH is not an AHU. ESPECIALLY the pump, injector lines, and injector bodies. They are both TDI, but don't share 100% after that.

[85_305]

The ahu and alh are basically the same car. Injectors are interchangeable. Nozzles are. Pretty sure heads are.

Biggest differences are the pump size, pistons (or piston pins... dont remember), intercooler setup, etc.

[theman53]

nozzles maybe. Injector bodies are not the same, they have different threads on them, same with the lines, so you cannot interchange them. The pumps bolt onto the engine in different spots so the lines are completely different to the injectors, plus again the threads are different. They should both have 10mm pumps, the ALH if it is auto will have an 11mm pump. The heads are not easily interchanged as there are subtle differences in the swirl of the air and the main difference being the oil return is completely different. The block castings are completely different. The crankshaft is slightly different. And IIRC the rods are slightly different as well as the ALH rods are matched to the pistons.

There is some stuff to consider, the main thing I have no clue on is the ECU differences on the AHU and ALH. I know they are different, but I don't have an AHU nor have I ever had one with an ECU. I bet you can hammermod them, but I have never seen an ECU from an AHU nor do I know how much it controls the pump since it is the 1st generation of electronically controlled TDI's. I have just never heard of the hammermod on the older cars, maybe because more people do it with the ALH as they are much more plentiful

[8v-of-fury]

nozzles maybe. Injector bodies are not the same, they have different threads on them, same with the lines, so you cannot interchange them. The pumps bolt onto the engine in different spots so the lines are completely different to the injectors, plus again the threads are different. They should both have 10mm pumps, the ALH if it is auto will have an 11mm pump. The heads are not easily interchanged as there are subtle differences in the swirl of the air and the main difference being the oil return is completely different. The block castings are completely different. The crankshaft is slightly different. And IIRC the rods are slightly different as well as the ALH rods are matched to the pistons.

There is some stuff to consider, the main thing I have no clue on is the ECU differences on the AHU and ALH. I know they are different, but I don't have an AHU nor have I ever had one with an ECU. I bet you can hammermod them, but I have never seen an ECU from an AHU nor do I know how much it controls the pump since it is the 1st generation of electronically controlled TDI's. I have just never heard of the hammermod on the older cars, maybe because more people do it with the ALH as they are much more plentiful

Word. The AHU only came in the 97-98 Jetta. 97 was the changeover year so more than half of the 97 model years diesels were still AAZ. Passat had the 1Z in 95 and 96 and then got the AHU in 97 as well. The golf never got the AHU ever in North America, It was AAZ from 93-99. 1999.5 the Golf got the ALH. All models got the ALH in 99.5.

[Glegor]

AHU is basically an alh... so yes, you can hammer mod them. Although, that's NOT the proper way to BOOST performance. Its more of a way to keep things in-spec.

1Z and AHU are close to the same, closer than the ALH atleast..

ALH is 100% different.. pump mounts differently, valve cover gasket is bonded to the valve cover, uses a cartridge oil filter..

[85_305]

Thanks for the education guys

[8gti16valve6]

A ton of things seperate these motors, but stock performance is similar. Where the ALH thrives is how much power it makes lightly and heavily modded. It's awesome!

[Rockerchick]

Word. The AHU only came in the 97-98 Jetta. 97 was the changeover year so more than half of the 97 model years diesels were still AAZ. Passat had the 1Z in 95 and 96 and then got the AHU in 97 as well. The golf never got the AHU ever in North America, It was AAZ from 93-99. 1999.5 the Golf got the ALH. All models got the ALH in 99.5.

Just a note, this is Canada info only.

AHU was in the Jetta '97(?) - '99 here in the states. Never an AAZ here. And the Passat got the 1Z in '96 and '97. Don't think it ever got the AHU here. There was no TDI mk3 Golf. 99.5 was the MkiV chassis and all models got the ALH. The New Beetle is the one oddball, as it was a MkiV car, but got the ALH in '98. Actually, there was an early different TDI in some NBs I believe. Don't think it was an AHU, but not quite an ALH, IIRC. I know a friend of mine had one of these oddball ones, but don't remember the exact details on it.

[MBounds@SOWO]

Is anyone in an AHU seeing gains from a DP or full Turbo back?

[Glegor]

Is anyone in an AHU seeing gains from a DP or full Turbo back?

sure, but the gains are bigger with other mods..

[MBounds@SOWO]

sure, but the gains are bigger with other mods..

Examples? My car is a DD and has a Malone tune on it.

[mk3dream]

AHU is basically an alh... so yes, you can hammer mod them. Although, that's NOT the proper way to BOOST performance. Its more of a way to keep things in-spec.

a tune is the proper way to go

that said - im a student and the money for a tune just isnt there. Mark at malone and i have already spoken, i have explained my mods. He has told me to hold off for now as there might be a BT set up in the future and that all he could really do for me as of now is play with the fueling

A ton of things seperate these motors, but stock performance is similar. Where the ALH thrives is how much power it makes lightly and heavily modded. It's awesome!

vnt helps the alh alot - but i still find that my not tuned ahu kills my tuned alh


and wast gates jammed shut thats why it does 22psi + but i try and keep it out of that range

[85_305]

vnt helps the alh alot - but i still find that my not tuned ahu kills my tuned alh

Ahhhhh. Gotta love a 2500lb go cart

[FaithInMkIII2.0]

Want more power out of your AHU? Read this. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360678
1Z/AHU is more than capable of supporting ALH power levels. The biggest difference between the 1Z/AHU and ALH is the block. The ALH is the later style block with no intermediate shaft, chain driven oil pump and waterpump housing is part of block. Vac pump is driven off of cam since no intermediate shaft. My 1Z has an ALH Stage 2 Colt cam FWIW. the only difference is the slot in the end of the cam is wider for the ALH vac pump drive, but it works the same with the Cam lock for setting static timing.

[Stealth_TDI]

Hello,

You can throw all the fuel at it you want... it's not gonna request more boost/timing/anything-inbetween until you get a tune on there... 18-19psi is all you want on the KKK.

^^^THIS! I recently plotted a bunch of turbo compressor maps. Here's the K03 at 22-psi:

The top row of dots are positioned at 22-psi (PR of 2.5) and 2000, 3000 and 4000 rpm. There are dots for 4500 and 5000 as well. But they're so far out of the K03's range that they're plotted at the edge of the graph. In short, the K03 is only making heat above 3500-rpm at 22-psi. As mentioned above, 18-psi (PR of 2.2) is much better for this turbo. If you're mechanically controlling boost, then that little turbo will stay at 22-psi until it explodes. A tune will dial back boost as IAT rise and the turbo approaches the edge of its limits. A proper tune will both make power AND protect the engine from killing itself.

I'm guessing that if you don't have the money for a tune, then you don't have the money for whatever Mark Malone has up his sleeve, either. I think the tune should be your priority. Save any money you'd waste on a downpipe or exhaust and do the tune first. I don't think you'll regret it. Perhaps Mark will give you a discount on future tunes if you upgrade to his next big package.

AHU is basically an alh... The ahu and alh are basically the same car. Injectors are interchangeable. Nozzles are. Pretty sure heads are. Biggest differences are the pump size, pistons (or piston pins... dont remember), intercooler setup, etc.

Ugh! So much misinformation scattered in this thread I can't even quote it all without having a megapost. Abbreviated version: Some say the AAZ is just a bored out 1.6. I don't know if that's true or not. But the 1Z (1st gen TDI) is based on the AAZ with the improvements necessary to make a TDI. That's why some AAZ parts work with the 1Z. The AHU is mostly the result of "running changes" to the 1Z. That's why a lot of trunk placcards in 1997-1998 Jetta label the engines as "1Z" even though the car actually has an AHU. There was a specific point (engine serial number) where VW stopped calling the engine a "1Z" and started calling it an "AHU." Some of the changes include a K03 turbo instead of a GT-15, a different injection pump, different valve seats/guides/stems/seals, an EGR cooler, different pistons, different ECU, and higher injector pop pressures.

THE ALH IS A COMPLETELY REDESIGNED ENGINE. The differences are vast although many of the functions are the same. I'm pretty certain the head is not compatible with 1Z/AHU. That would be a popular upgrade if it was a direct swap since the ALH head is better. The IP is not a direct swap, either, even though both engines have 10mm rotary pumps on the manual transmission cars. That said, the injector bodies ARE interchangable between the 1Z/AHU and the ALH. I've done it too many times. THIS PAGE shows it as well. I'll not get into every detail. Doing so would derail this topic too far. Some have already hit on some of the major ALH differences.

A ton of things seperate these motors, but stock performance is similar. Where the ALH thrives is how much power it makes lightly and heavily modded. It's awesome!

Similar, but not the same. The 1Z/AHU makes the advertized 90-bhp and 149-lb/ft once you add in "driveline losses." I have stock AHU dynos at 76-whp. Factor in an accepted 17% driveline loss (90s era tranny loss) and you get an estimated 91.5-bhp. The ALH does 90-hp AT THE WHEEL. So it's better right out of the box. It's been said VW understated the ALH's power to avoid a tax bracket overseas. Not sure if that's true. Regardless, the ALH is stronger off the bat and has proven to have higher potential. Still, I think an AHU can come close to the ALH's potential with the right upgrades. I just haven't seen anyone in the US do it.

Want more power out of your AHU? Read this. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=360678

I'm still formulating my upgrade path. The GT2052 is a cool prospect. I'm watching the progress of the GTB1756VK kits, too.

vnt helps the alh alot - but i still find that my not tuned ahu kills my tuned alh

The lighter MK3 is sweet, huh? I once calculated that my 400-lb weight advantage will allow me to keep up with newer cars so long as I can get within 20-30hp of them. Everyone wants a 200-hp TDI. I'd be pretty tickled with 170-hp. It's the same power to weight ratio as a newer Jetta with 200-hp.

Regardless of your path, keep up the faith and take care of that car! The MK3 TDIs are getting tougher to find these days. Some are becoming seasonal cars. I enjoy driving mine every day and on long road trips. I'm considering a drive to Texas this Christmas.

Good Luck,

Scott

[Rockerchick]

You think the mk3 is fun? Try a mk1! Our TD came with 68hp from the factory. We completely rebuilt it and did a few mods (exhaust, IP) so its probably got a little more than that, but no clue on a real number. Certainly not the 90hp the TDI has. And it certainly is a hot little car...it may outrun our TDI The power to weight ratio is certainly better in the mk1. Its such a fun little car!

[FaithInMkIII2.0]

Everyone knows a tuned TDI powered mk2 GTI is best! Take I part mk1 and 1 part mk3 and blend and voila, you have a mk2
a mk3 is still a bit of a pig in my book. I have owned enough to have a good idea!

Oh and Scott, btw, there is more to the overall performance gain from a turbo than is divulged by a graph. Quit being a skeptic! You are going for a ride at Fest!

[Glegor]

Ahhhhh. Gotta love a 2500lb go cart

only way you get a 2500# tdi go cart, is a TDI in a mk2 GOLF/GTI

AKA:

the GTDI (stink whistle)

owned by Chris (FaithInMkIII2.0)

god i love that car..

[Glegor]

You think the mk3 is fun? Try a mk1! Our TD came with 68hp from the factory. We completely rebuilt it and did a few mods (exhaust, IP) so its probably got a little more than that, but no clue on a real number. Certainly not the 90hp the TDI has. And it certainly is a hot little car...it may outrun our TDI The power to weight ratio is certainly better in the mk1. Its such a fun little car!

i dont think mk1 cars are all that fun, really..

neither is the mk3, but they handle better, and are much more stiff than a mk1..

the mk2 is the perfect balance of the 2 cars..

my mk2 golf with 160k miles was more fun to drive than my Rabbit with new struts/shocks/springs all the way around, with rear swaybar, and aftermarket front swaybar..

the golf had NO SWAYBARS, and rotten tires, and it was still more fun to drive..

ive never experienced a mk1 with coil-overs, but i imagine that is the way to go, if you want a fun car..

i DO like the feel/acceleration of the mk1 more than the mk2, but thats purely because a mk1 rabbit weighs 1800#s, and a mk2 golf/gti weighs 2200#s. (talking about fairly stock cars, with full interiors)

i noticed a fair loss of acceleration when i swapped cars.. i took the 1.6TD out of my worn out 84 rabbit, and dropped it in my 92 Jetta.. wishing i would have found a GTI shell to drop it into..

[FaithInMkIII2.0]

only way you get a 2500# tdi go cart, is a TDI in a mk2 GOLF/GTI

AKA:

the GTDI (stink whistle)

owned by Chris (FaithInMkIII2.0)

god i love that car..

Hell ya dude, and you wanted it since I started building it!

when you finish the car, if it comes up stolen, i DID NOT take it..

a mk2 TDI GTD is probably the finest car VW never built..

i dont think mk1 cars are all that fun, really..

neither is the mk3, but they handle better, and are much more stiff than a mk1..

the mk2 is the perfect balance of the 2 cars..

my mk2 golf with 160k miles was more fun to drive than my Rabbit with new struts/shocks/springs all the way around, with rear swaybar, and aftermarket front swaybar..

the golf had NO SWAYBARS, and rotten tires, and it was still more fun to drive..

ive never experienced a mk1 with coil-overs, but i imagine that is the way to go, if you want a fun car..

i DO like the feel/acceleration of the mk1 more than the mk2, but thats purely because a mk1 rabbit weighs 1800#s, and a mk2 golf/gti weighs 2200#s. (talking about fairly stock cars, with full interiors)

i noticed a fair loss of acceleration when i swapped cars.. i took the 1.6TD out of my worn out 84 rabbit, and dropped it in my 92 Jetta.. wishing i would have found a GTI shell to drop it into..

Mk1's do accelerate quicker and are pretty nimble on a tight course but the light weight is too light at double digit speeds...My buddy Burpod's VNT17/22 AHU powered mk1 is a blast but at high speed it is kind of sketchy. Too twitchy and feels like it is floating.

[Rockerchick]

Our Jetta is on coils and it is one serious fun car on some twisties.

[8v-of-fury]

I love me my 84 M-TDI

[Stealth_TDI]

Chris,

Oh and Scott, btw, there is more to the overall performance gain from a turbo than is divulged by a graph. Quit being a skeptic! You are going for a ride at Fest!

Unfortunately, I won't be making it to TDIFest. I'm saving that money for a trip home to Texas for Christmas. But we certainly need to talk. I'll PM you my number so we can chat.

R,

Scott

[theman53]

Stealth,
I agree with all you said about the ALH AHU differences, except one question or something to clear up for me. IF you can swap the injector bodies then you would have to have lines made for the IP to the injectors, right? The Threads are different on the injectors and the lines are different because of that and the pump is not mounted in the same spot. Unless there is something I am missing?

[Stealth_TDI]

The threads are the same acrossl 1Z/AHU/ALH injectors. I know this because I borrowed a set of injectors off an ALH when I had to troubleshoot my injectors a few years ago. Straight swap with no fuss. I drove for a few weeks and then swapped right back.

Now the lines may very well be different in case the IP is positioned a tad differently. But the retaining nuts are all the same.

[theman53]

I don't get it then, I will have to check and see WTH I have. I have never laid eyes on the complete engine, I only have pieces. I know the nozzles will interchange but what I have the threads on the injectors are not the same nor are the lines as my ALH in my 01 jetta.

[mk3dream]

Ahhhhh. Gotta love a 2500lb go cart

yeah its a great little car, but it has its own horror story to go along with it

Hello,
The lighter MK3 is sweet, huh? I once calculated that my 400-lb weight advantage will allow me to keep up with newer cars so long as I can get within 20-30hp of them. Everyone wants a 200-hp TDI. I'd be pretty tickled with 170-hp. It's the same power to weight ratio as a newer Jetta with 200-hp.

Regardless of your path, keep up the faith and take care of that car! The MK3 TDIs are getting tougher to find these days. Some are becoming seasonal cars. I enjoy driving mine every day and on long road trips. I'm considering a drive to Texas this Christmas.

Good Luck,

Scott

thanks for the great info !
yeah ill hold out for a tune and clutch. mines had quite the face lift this summer
once im done school id like to pull the motor and drop it in a caddy then i will truly be happy.




hers a little pick of the make over
heres how i bought it (- the roof rack)
1500$ bucks delivered


and....

after all the rust repair/interior swap/paint job/motor work ( also has a mint set of GT skirts on it now)
id like to make a sweet set of mud flaps for it too but have to find some material to use.


seen that you guys where posting about fest, was going to head up with a friend but dont think the funds or time is there to make it this year. Hope its a great show for you guys tho