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    Thread: Turbo'ing a small engine. Learn me.

    1. Former Advertiser
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      08-01-2012 06:33 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubel GLI View Post
      That's my opinion too. If you're gonna go through all this trouble, make an intake manifold, throw an injector on there, and do it right. It'll be an awesome learning experience and something you guys can bring up later in job interviews!

      Yes a learning experience, but its a lot more complicated then that.

      What is powering the injector and the computer for it?

      What is powering the fuel pump to get you the pressure needed to overcome the manifold pressure?


      It quickly goes from a fun project with some scrap parts to 100s of dollars and hours.


      I hate carbs so much I've come close to fuel injecting my lawn mower, I still see EFI as an uncessary step for this project.

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      08-01-2012 06:38 PM #27
      Just swap in a bigger CC engine with the same mounting pattern and call it done. The 10hp briggs engines already have a hard time holding up in the baja SAE application. As far as the turbo goes it might be too large going from a 3 cyl to a single 300cc engine. What was the size of the diesel?

      I am probably going to do a large CC Kohler engine, (If I can get a kohler efi from work for cheap then I am going to go that route) in the car I have in my garage.

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    3. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 06:40 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by ncsumecheng View Post
      When I was at NCSU (meaning it isn't necessarily true now), the SAE group was the most elitist and seclusive group of circle jerking pricks I'd ever seen.
      this is generally the case with most SAE programs.
      people are weird like that. i was guilty of it as well.

      meh

    4. Member Ubel GLI's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 06:56 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Yes a learning experience, but its a lot more complicated then that.

      What is powering the injector and the computer for it?

      What is powering the fuel pump to get you the pressure needed to overcome the manifold pressure?


      It quickly goes from a fun project with some scrap parts to 100s of dollars and hours.


      I hate carbs so much I've come close to fuel injecting my lawn mower, I still see EFI as an uncessary step for this project.
      An arduino, a big-ish battery, and a little programming can get you really far in backwoods standalone setups. Its complicated but if a bunch of mech e students can't do it I'm scared for the future of my profession. If its a decently sized Baja team they have some extra cash and tons of extra people. Projects like this keep the underclassmen interested. I was the VP of my team in college and I always pushed people to do extra projects because they usually turn out awesome. Ghetto, but awesome

      I also agree with the bigger engine idea if you shy away from turbos. If you want to be SAE legends throw a 250cc+ bike engine in an old car and just put that on YouTube everywhere. You'll need new mounts but you also need to teach kids how to design and machine stuff so win-win.
      Last edited by Ubel GLI; 08-01-2012 at 06:59 PM.

    5. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 07:03 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubel GLI View Post
      If you're gonna go through all this trouble, make an intake manifold, throw an injector on there, and do it right.
      not even close to that simple.

    6. Member Ubel GLI's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 07:08 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      not even close to that simple.
      I'm aware but I also think most people are overstating the complexity. This isn't my first time trying to figure out how to turbo a 10hp Briggs. We toyed with the blow-through way but we also had a well made EFI system made too. I've tried to find my code and stuff but I think its all back at school.

      Hopefully this doesnt turn into an engineering war

      For a bunch of new kids to SAE this could take all year so I will throw that out there. If you're looking for a fall project a turboed EFI engine isn't it.

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      08-01-2012 09:14 PM #32
      my father has 4 of these for sale. 1 restored, 1 intact, 2 in boxes....just sayin
      http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...161239&first=1
      NEK....PISS OFF

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      08-01-2012 10:15 PM #33
      I read the title as Turbio'ing a small engine.

      I was
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    9. 08-01-2012 10:25 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Yes a learning experience, but its a lot more complicated then that.

      What is powering the injector and the computer for it?

      What is powering the fuel pump to get you the pressure needed to overcome the manifold pressure?


      It quickly goes from a fun project with some scrap parts to 100s of dollars and hours.


      I hate carbs so much I've come close to fuel injecting my lawn mower, I still see EFI as an uncessary step for this project.
      The snowmobile guys actually custom fuel mapping for their turbo-diesel i think, so EFI can be something to consider. We also have hundreds of dollars and maybe even hours to throw at this thing. Unless the cost got into the thousands, money shouldn't be an issue no matter which way we go.
      Quote Originally Posted by AndyG86 View Post
      Just swap in a bigger CC engine with the same mounting pattern and call it done. The 10hp briggs engines already have a hard time holding up in the baja SAE application. As far as the turbo goes it might be too large going from a 3 cyl to a single 300cc engine. What was the size of the diesel?

      I am probably going to do a large CC Kohler engine, (If I can get a kohler efi from work for cheap then I am going to go that route) in the car I have in my garage.

      Former RIT Baja SAE President and Volunteer at Wisconsin
      I have no idea what diesel they used, I assumed its small but I can be wrong. Also, we're not turboing the baja car, we need our backup one to work We're sticking an old motor on a go-kart that we have yet to build.

      Also, UB SAE here, did you hear that this spring is going to be at RIT?
      Quote Originally Posted by Ubel GLI View Post
      I'm aware but I also think most people are overstating the complexity. This isn't my first time trying to figure out how to turbo a 10hp Briggs. We toyed with the blow-through way but we also had a well made EFI system made too. I've tried to find my code and stuff but I think its all back at school.

      Hopefully this doesnt turn into an engineering war

      For a bunch of new kids to SAE this could take all year so I will throw that out there. If you're looking for a fall project a turboed EFI engine isn't it.
      This can take as long as it needs to, its more of an exercise in engineering application than something that needs to meet a deadline. Also, some of the older guys are going to be involved to, its not just going to be new kids.
      Quote Originally Posted by 484 View Post
      I don't know the details of the 10hp briggs, but isn't it a splash-lube system? Will need oil pump to provide oil the turbo...
      Yes and yes.
      Quote Originally Posted by stapleface View Post
      my father has 4 of these for sale. 1 restored, 1 intact, 2 in boxes....just sayin
      http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...161239&first=1
      We have too many of these lying around

      Question about EFI, ignoring the coding and mapping and all that crap, is it a lot of work to physically retrofit the system in? Im trying to do some research on my own now, but the more direct input the better! The one thing that I do like about going EFI is (im assuming) you can go with a more conventional turbo setup right?
      Quote Originally Posted by UNBANNED_GERBIL View Post
      Phew!!! Thank goodness it's a VW troll thread. If it were a Hyundai troll thread the bukkake faced fanboys would be frothing at the mouth

    10. Member DustinM's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 10:33 PM #35
      EFI can be run on a very crude system consisting of injectors, timing wheel and sensor, and some type of EFI management software. Megasquirt using a setup similar to the Ford crank trigger wheel can be done for next to nothing with junkyard parts.
      http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...stallation.htm

      Remember, all you're doing is controlling timing and fuel trim. You may want to control ignition, which i believe the crank trigger and a separate coil run off of the megasquirt can control. Perhaps even coil packs if you want to get creative.
      Offikial Minister of Bad Judgements and Floridian Truths of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan

    11. Member Ubel GLI's Avatar
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      08-01-2012 10:38 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by josh_did_what View Post

      Question about EFI, ignoring the coding and mapping and all that crap, is it a lot of work to physically retrofit the system in? Im trying to do some research on my own now, but the more direct input the better! The one thing that I do like about going EFI is (im assuming) you can go with a more conventional turbo setup right?
      It's a much more conventional (read... conventional ) setup. How I planned ours out was as follows, I'll make a diagram when I have more time, but here's the basics. I don't remember a lot of exact voltages so it's hit or miss.

      Take a car battery or a 9V battery, or a battery out of a power wheels, I dont care. Make a circuit that reduces the battery voltage to 5V to power the arduino or else you're just melting faces left and right. You can either go through the arduino directly to power the fuel pump and injector (might need to amplify the output/use more power (google)) or use the arduino as essentially a damn in the direct wiring to the fuel pump if it needs more power than the arduino can handle. Once you do some basic math (google) to figure out all your voltages and reducing and amping circuits, wire that bitch up.

      Getting the injection timing is kind of iffy. You can use crank sensors and you can just make a fuel map which isn't really crazy difficult (google), although the first time will be frustrating, or you can just guess and check and hope you don't blow anything up. Get your manifold ready and made. Make it so you have leeway with the injector and you can throw spacers in if you want to move the injector up and down depending on how the fuel's mixing (google again... sensing a pattern here? ). You're basically home free at this point. The engine does it's own ignition so you just have to work with that unless you want to get real crazy with it but I don't recommend that.

      This was a rudimentary explanation but just one to show it is possible with what you have. You'll need a few more sensors than listed here but if you learn how to use an arduino you can make almost anything.
      Last edited by Ubel GLI; 08-01-2012 at 10:40 PM.

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