Must vent frustration, currently hate BMW, why can't someone make basic parts that last?!

[l88m22vette]

So today was my first day of summer vacation, I got my garage prepped for the upcoming TT timing belt and Forester head gasket cluster****fest. No prob, have a new compressor, air ratchet, and put an AC window unit in so I don't pass out while working on the crap. All in all, I was pretty excited about taking care of things. But today I also got a report, my Mom's 2007 535xi started having troubles, and it conveniently just went out of warranty (like 3k ago). She calls me and tells me her rad fan sounds like a jet, and I confirm overheating through the dash message. After researching the past 2 hours, I've settled on the fact that she will need a new waterpump and thermostat.

Bend over! The two parts are going to cost over $500 Not only that, BMWs are known for having **** waterpumps and thermostats, and apparently this is a typical maintenance interval for the two **** parts. I have to DIY it because with labor it'd cost over a grand, and there is NO WHERE to get the parts for cheaper. Really BMW? Goddamn it, the price is outrageous, electric pump or no. 50k lifespan for a basic pump and thermostat? Yea I shouldn't be surprised at the price because its electric, and the fact is its a BMW, but all the same it pisses me off because these kinds of parts should last. Yet another thing on the summer to-do list, and her 535 has had a litany of problems/recalls already (apparently the e60 is known for being a ****storm of problems).

I'm going to fix it, but I'm sick of ANY car having issues with such basic parts. Cars have needed both parts essentially since they were invented, can't someone just figure out a way to design basic stuff so they don't suck ass?! Its a ****ing waterpump and thermostat, figure them out already! Stop designing parts around warranty schedules you ****ing idiots

[ToucheTurtle]

Yes but those fine soft touch dash materials.

[josh_did_what]

Edit- misread your price estimate.

Yea BMW rubber and plastic never lasts. It's to be expected unfortunately.

You can save a little money here:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-16...-e60-535i.aspx

[Charlie84]

Yup. I'm sorry to say it, but nothing new here. BMW's waterpumps and thermostats have sucked as long as I can remember.

Of course, I've had BMWs for so long that I don't even know what a typical lifespan is for these parts. How long do these items tend to last on Hondas? Full lifespan of the car, I'd imagine.

Anyway, irritating. I feel your pain. Good luck.

[-DWM-]

Someone needs to make a belt-driven conversion for that car.

A water pump *should* last 100k miles.

[GTE77]

Edit- misread your price estimate.

Yea BMW rubber and plastic never lasts. It's to be expected unfortunately.

You can save a little money here:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-16...-e60-535i.aspx

As a BMW owner.............Turner Motorsports and Save Money dont belong in the same sentence.

[MightyDSM]

, I've settled on the fact that she will need a new waterpump and thermostat.

Bend over! The two parts are going to cost over $500 Not only that, BMWs are known for having **** waterpumps and thermostats, and apparently this is a typical maintenance interval for the two ****

Ah, yeah...BMW's cooling system issues. "Regular" maintenance for those folks

I know I said this before, but sometimes owning a VW makes you appreciate the little things (that go bad), like coil packs...

[Saintor]

These electrical pumps are nonsense. Thanks god, industry don't follow BMW in their craziness, all of this to save maybe 1-2HP.

2007 N52N were repackaged and don't seem to suffer this issue like the 2006 325i/330i N52 had. I have heard of maybe 1 328i with this issue but tons of 335i with it. The N54 is unfortunately very affected and additional heat may be a reason.

[wonderboy!]

BMW cooling systems haha designed by ****tards

[czykvw]

So today was my first day of summer vacation, I got my garage prepped for the upcoming TT timing belt and Forester head gasket cluster****fest. No prob, have a new compressor, air ratchet, and put an AC window unit in so I don't pass out while working on the crap. All in all, I was pretty excited about taking care of things. But today I also got a report, my Mom's 2007 535xi started having troubles, and it conveniently just went out of warranty (like 3k ago). She calls me and tells me her rad fan sounds like a jet, and I confirm overheating through the dash message. After researching the past 2 hours, I've settled on the fact that she will need a new waterpump and thermostat.

Bend over! The two parts are going to cost over $500 Not only that, BMWs are known for having **** waterpumps and thermostats, and apparently this is a typical maintenance interval for the two **** parts. I have to DIY it because with labor it'd cost over a grand, and there is NO WHERE to get the parts for cheaper. Really BMW? Goddamn it, the price is outrageous, electric pump or no. 50k lifespan for a basic pump and thermostat? Yea I shouldn't be surprised at the price because its electric, and the fact is its a BMW, but all the same it pisses me off because these kinds of parts should last. Yet another thing on the summer to-do list, and her 535 has had a litany of problems/recalls already (apparently the e60 is known for being a ****storm of problems).

I'm going to fix it, but I'm sick of ANY car having issues with such basic parts. Cars have needed both parts essentially since they were invented, can't someone just figure out a way to design basic stuff so they don't suck ass?! Its a ****ing waterpump and thermostat, figure them out already! Stop designing parts around warranty schedules you ****ing idiots

[VadGTI]

Water pump - $249:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-2012-BM...761#vi-content

Thermostat - $76.99
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-...at-11537549476

You're welcome

[Aonarch]

[josh_did_what]

As a BMW owner.............Turner Motorsports and Save Money dont belong in the same sentence.

Yea yea yea I know

But their package deals are usually good. When I had my e36, I got the OEM Euro clear tail lights for like 250 for both of them from them which is quite a bit less than retail. I think an E36 cooling system rebuild kit is like 400 from them.

I wouldnt go used on something like this considering how short the life span is to start with. Do they make aftermarket ones though? There are some companies that make WPs for the E36 that cost a bit more but last the lifetime of the car, so that offsets the purchase price.

[JustinCSVT]

Yup. Sounds about right. I'm just waiting for mine to go.

[zzman916]

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php

The thermostat is $74.79

I like rock auto they have some pretty good prices

[Toaster29]

What will really burn you up is that the ECU has actually been aware of the water pump failing for a while. It throws plausibility codes that are shadow codes which don't activate the CEL but can be seen with the proper cable. It isn't until the thing actually totally fails that it kicks the fans into high gear and goes into limp mode. Also, the control electronics on the pump are what fail, the actual motor and impeller are fine 98% of the time.

Finally, there is a new part number that supposedly rectifies the issue and should last. Do some more searching before you buy the part.

[BRealistic]

Water pump - $249:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2008-2012-BM...761#vi-content

Thermostat - $76.99
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-...at-11537549476

You're welcome

If a part is known to have a short life span and is not a quick easy job to replace, I don't think buying used is smart unless they just want to fix it to trade/sell.

[BRealistic]

Fukin BMW Water Pumps..

How Do They Work?

[VadGTI]

If a part is known to have a short life span and is not a quick easy job to replace, I don't think buying used is smart unless they just want to fix it to trade/sell.

Yeah, I didn't realize it was used .

Found one for $470 but that doesn't help much.

[josh_did_what]

Yeah, I didn't realize it was used .

Found one for $470 but that doesn't help much.

[Booster]

With working with BMW for over 10 years now, all I can do is...























If you knew e60's/BMW's in general had **** cooling systems and other things, what kind of input did you give for her even buying the car? Why are you complaining about the price? Shouldn't mom be worried about that?

And why are you blaming BMW for not being able to get the parts elsewhere? Not their fault an aftermarket company hasn't designed a better replacement part that has been around for over 6 years now...

I will laugh even more if it turns out not even being the problem...

Best of luck!

[deadernie]

Yup. I'm sorry to say it, but nothing new here. BMW's waterpumps and thermostats have sucked as long as I can remember.

Of course, I've had BMWs for so long that I don't even know what a typical lifespan is for these parts. How long do these items tend to last on Hondas? Full lifespan of the car, I'd imagine.

Anyway, irritating. I feel your pain. Good luck.

Don't know how long the.y last on Hondas but my '96 Ranger with the 2.3 has over 240K and everything on the motor is original but the plugs and timing belt. And I'm sure the 2.3 Lima is much lower tech than the BMW.

[slide13]

did not read, but there are aftermarket water pumps with metal blades that last longer.

[Late Apex]

More Money, more problems


BMWs are know for their pathetic plastic cooling components.

[deagle]

she bought euro instead of japanese, what did ya'll expect

lol

why can't they have good quality engineered parts ?

having good suspension doesn't mean squat, when you're taking a turn, a part breaks and you crash

[J-Tim]

did not read, but there are aftermarket water pumps with metal blades that last longer.

It's been established that those metal blades do not make much difference when it comes to how long the part lasts. Those internal bearings go much sooner anyway.

[Iroczgirl]

Waw, I can usually get things pretty cheap, so I checked and these water pumps are darn expensive!

[adrew]

Don't know how long the.y last on Hondas but my '96 Ranger with the 2.3 has over 240K and everything on the motor is original but the plugs and timing belt. And I'm sure the 2.3 Lima is much lower tech than the BMW.

On older Hondas with timing belts you typically changed the water pump every 60-100k miles (depends on model year) "while you were in there" doing the t-belt since it was only an extra $40 or so for the part. There's no maintenance interval on the newer ones with chains, and I just searched for "k-series water pump failed" and the first page of Google results was all for Rover K-series engines, not Honda ones.

[l88m22vette]

With working with BMW for over 10 years now, all I can do is...

If you knew e60's/BMW's in general had **** cooling systems and other things, what kind of input did you give for her even buying the car? Why are you complaining about the price? Shouldn't mom be worried about that?

And why are you blaming BMW for not being able to get the parts elsewhere? Not their fault an aftermarket company hasn't designed a better replacement part that has been around for over 6 years now...

I will laugh even more if it turns out not even being the problem...

Best of luck!

Geez, I didn't know BMW attitude came from the service people as well, thanks!

She bought it new, before anyone had really had problems (read: before anyone knew to stay the **** away). I'm worried about the price cause its an utter ripoff, and why should I hope an aftermarket company rectifies the situation? How about BMW, with their amazing reputation and engineering prowess, design a WP that doesn't fail? The car has more electronics than NASA but the basic parts are ****. Skip fancy and build something without taking leasing percentage into consideration...and don't get me started on how there isn't a goddamn dipstick...

[BRealistic]

Geez, I didn't know BMW attitude came from the service people as well, thanks!

She bought it new, before anyone had really had problems (read: before anyone knew to stay the **** away). I'm worried about the price cause its an utter ripoff, and why should I hope an aftermarket company rectifies the situation? How about BMW, with their amazing reputation and engineering prowess, design a WP that doesn't fail? The car has more electronics than NASA but the basic parts are ****. Skip fancy and build something without taking leasing percentage into consideration...and don't get me started on how there isn't a goddamn dipstick...

When RX8s (or other more affordable vehicles) have issues- that shows they are junk.
But when BMWs have issues- that is just the price of owning such an amazing vehicle, and complaining just exposed you to not be proper BMW owner material.


And on topic- if this really is a known part issue, I am surprised somebody hasn't stepped up to offer a better part (heck- even Mazda changed to better replacement parts to address part issues just a few years after the 04 RX8s went on sale).

[GTE77]

So OP, you're complaing your mother has to replace the water pump on a 5 year old car just because she bought it new?

5 years is pretty aceptable for a cooling system refresh......

[vasillalov]

Someone needs to make a belt-driven conversion for that car.
.

Hmm, I think not. Lets see:

* Electric pumps can be turned on or off by the ECU depending on the cooling needs. The BMW electric pump operates in conjunction with the cooling fan. If the temperatures start rising, the fan operates at a higher speed and the water pump enters "Component Protection Mode" which helps cool down the engine quickly.

* When the engine is cold, the coolant does not circulate. This helps decrease warm up time, which in turn improves fuel efficiency, decreases emissions and allows the passenger compartment to be heated quicker.

* The ECU can choose to shut down the coolant pump when it is not needed, thus eliminating a large portion of the parasitic drag of a conventional belt driven unit. This further improves efficiency of the engine.

* The ECU can turn on the coolant pump even when the engine is not running. This allows for the turbos to cool off quickly and it eliminates the need of a turbo timer for these cars.

* The ECU can turn on the coolant pump and provide heat to the passenger cabin when the car is parked and the engine is warm but shut off.

* The ECU can dial in the precise temperature it wants the engine to operate in. If more power is needed, then the ECU will increase the cooling capacity because lower temps make more power. If the ECU aims for fuel efficiency (which it does on highway) it will increase the engine temperature because high engine temps provide better fuel economy.

Frankly, I see no reason why one would ever want a belt-driven coolant pump anymore.

Now, concerning the OP's mother's BMW, I am willing to bet my lunch for an entire week that the car has automatic gearbox. Unfortunately, BMW in their infinite wisdom, have decided to cool the automatic transmissions via the engine coolant. So the cooling system in those cars with automatic transmissions have to work overtime not only because the twin turbos (which are water cooled and oil cooled) are dumping so much heat, but also because the automatic transmission is also dumping a lot of heat.

There are lots of 335i cars out there with over 100K miles and the original coolant pump. The vast majority of those however are cars with manual transmissions which require no cooling.


EDIT: I forgot to mention that having an electric pump controlled by the ECU allows for some interesting tuning solutions. Almost all of the N54/N55 engine tuners offer some sort of improved logic for cooling the engine. Even BMW themselves have a different cooling algorithms in the software for the Performance Power Kit in the 335is and 1M

[l88m22vette]

So OP, you're complaing your mother has to replace the water pump on a 5 year old car just because she bought it new?

5 years is pretty aceptable for a cooling system refresh......

No, the time isn't a big deal, and even the mileage is "acceptable" I guess, its that the bitch costs almost $500. If anyone has to pay that much for a simple waterpump it should last far longer than 50k. I'm not BMW owner material, even my TT is basically cheap, most of the parts from a Golf/Jetta can be used and its been extremely reliable - hell, my coilpacks have 85k on them, and its only after 120k that I really need to install a new clutch. The Bimmer has had 4x as many issues in under half the mileage

And, yes, its an auto...

[landstuhltaylor]

So OP, you're complaing your mother has to replace the water pump on a 5 year old car just because she bought it new?

5 years is pretty aceptable for a cooling system refresh......

5 years is certainly not acceptable in my mind. If the water pump can't last 100k I would not be happy.

[Horror Business]

So OP, you're complaing your mother has to replace the water pump on a 5 year old car just because she bought it new?

5 years is pretty aceptable for a cooling system refresh......

Im gonna agree right here. You really have no reason to speak this way either because you own an audi TT. Waterpumps and timing belts are every 60k miles on the 1.8t. How is that any better than this BMW?

And are you absolutely sure that it is the pump itself that has failed? Being an electric pump that leaves many other possibilities to cause lack of operation besides the unit itself.