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    Thread: The Official: I'm waiting for an ARX-160 thread.

    1. 08-03-2012 08:50 PM #1
      So, as many of you know, I'm a big AK guy. I prefer it to the AR, and I've been running them for perhaps the last 4-5 years. I only have 10-15K rounds down range with them, but I genuinely love the platform. With the right parts and aftermarket modifications, I think the AK can easily hit 85-90% of the functions of any current issue rifle (particularly that of the AR).

      Plastic Fantastic...Deux
      Just as an Austrian named Gaston helped throw the firearms world on its ear with the introduction of mass produced reliable polymer framed semi-auto fighting handguns, several companies today are trying to push the firearms world kicking and screaming into the new generation of rifles. Most militaries are fighting tooth and nail to retain their Cold War rifles...but the winds of change are blowing harder than a wolf smacking his lips for bacon fat.

      To this end, we've seen the well received SCAR models...the poorly received ACR models...the oddly received FN2000 super guns, new fancy AUG based rifles, and a variety of wannabes hanging out in the wings (I'm looking at you Cz805 BREN!).



      None of these really interest me. If anything, some of the weapons make me laugh. The US military has gone from hating side-charging handles, and piston operation...to loving side-charging handles, and piston operation. In fact, if there is one thing our admittedly great military does horribly it's small arms. To get a firearm into the hands of a US infantrymen...one must first conquer a red-tape trail the size of the Tour De France (roughly 2185 miles on average). Congressional bickering, financial nonsense, and political disasters await every single firearms design.



      I digress...

      So, as I look at the future of my current life I realize I can likely no longer afford to buy overly expensive AKs and then spend way too much money trying to build them into proper fighting guns. I have two, and they work...but if I calculate the cost spent getting them to where they are, I may put one of those barrels in my mouth.

      So when I stumbled upon the Beretta ARX-160...I expected little. I expected another gun built around an AR platform, with nothing genuinely new or innovative. A lot of hot-air promises, and a price tag which would make an HK sales rep baulk.



      The more videos and reviews I looked into, the more my curiosity was piqued. Sure, it's a side-charging piston gun...which is comforting to an AK guy like me. But it has some genuinely unique and forward thinking looking design aspects. I have decided that I will be buying one if/when they are released in the US. Current theories are pointing to a likely release...albeit in 1.5-2 years time.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEEvh3wYFps

      Things I like:
      +Ambi...everything with little to no sacrifices to make it happen.
      +A slightly AK-friendly magazine release which will help me transfer back to AR style mag releases.
      +Folding stock (no reason for a modern fighting gun to not have this...makes carriage/stowage much easier!)
      +Tool-less break down to almost its component parts.
      +Quick release barrel. While something I "may" not use, if I end up liking the rifle enough, it would make SBR'ing it much more simple...also possibly giving me an option to run the gun in various configs.
      +Short stroke piston operation.
      +Single railed top, which accept AR folding sights or any normal combat optics.
      +A "hinted" at price of $1500-1700 for a "basic" model...we'll see.
      +One of the best aspects...a charging handle, which is NOT super close to the top rail. This is a huge issue with SCARs, ACRs, 556's etc. The charging handle is very near the top of the rifle, which starts to interfere with optics, and railed accessories....which is a stupid mis-design.
      +Supposedly lightweight (rumoured under 7 lbs. empty?)
      +Beretta is a well respected firearms manufacturer...and I'd have no problems buying from them.
      +Been tested and now serving in the Italian armed forces since 2008. Any combat proven firearm is definitely confidence inspiring unlike something like a Bushmaster ACR etc.

      Things I don't think I'll like:
      -Stock folding to the right...I like mine folded to the left. I'll be running the charging handle like an AK, on the right side of the rifle.
      -Relatively short front end grip/furniture...which will (just like an AK) hinder you if you prefer a long-armed approach to shooting.
      -Ugly. I already own ugly guns, so this isn't a huge deal, but the rifle is freakin' hideous!
      -The bolt-latch hold button is in/under the trigger guard...and seems like a bad idea. I could be wrong though.



      So...here's hoping it actually happens. Please feel free to post any ARX-160 info here (good or bad!). I'm cautiously optimistic.
      Last edited by Elbows; 08-03-2012 at 08:52 PM.

    2. 08-05-2012 09:54 PM #2
      I'm pretty excited to see what becomes of the ARX-160. I think its a gutsy move from Beretta to release another gun into the market to compete with the kings of the type, the AR and AK. I don't think the Scar or ACR lived up to the hype.

      Have you tried out the Sig 556? I hear they ironed out any issues they had with it. It looks like a modernized/refined AK to me. Something an AK guy could get familiar with very quickly.

    3. 08-05-2012 10:25 PM #3
      I've shot my buddy's Sig556 (shortly before he sold it to fund an LWRC). While I like the idea of the rifle, the execution is mediocre - mainly because of Sig's piss-poor quality control as of late. The folding stocks are not robust enough (they have several models, some worse than others). I do genuinely like the rifle, but one HUGE pet peeve for me is the charging handle sits RIGHT on the freakin' upper rail.

      This is a stupid damn place to put the charging handle (a design which several late rifles have). The AK and ARX etc. have charging handles placed further down the rifle.

      Between the Sig quality, and the stupid charging handle, I'd definitely have an issue running one. I really dig the patrol model. If two years go by, I may be encouraged to try one. You used to be able to get the Sig556 models for dirt cheap (because no one was buying them). I haven't completely nixed it.

    4. Member nevermas's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 10:48 PM #4
      Handled this at DSA a few months back and I liked it, trigger felt nice and clean and easy to shoulder up. Toward the end of the show everybody starts to get a little loopy and the Steiner rep (Beretta bought out Steiner a few years back) starts to use the rifle as a putter. There is a breakdown tool hidden within the rifle, or you can just use a standard punch.

      Yeah, it is indeed an ugly rifle.
      War Eagle!

    5. Senior Member NoDubJustYet's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 06:43 PM #5
      For the 556: Just buy the Swiss stock, not the collapsible side-folding stock. It's world's better. There are other stocks available from ACE or if you wanted to go with an AR style. Not sure what issues you've had with the 556. My classic has been perfect...

    6. 08-06-2012 07:43 PM #6
      My main concern is simply with the company. The Sig 556R had such wildly horrible reviews I'm amazed they even released that rifle (though they are supposed to be releasing a new model to make up for it here shortly). My buddy's 556 was okay. He couldn't shoot it very well, but I'm pretty sure it was all him, and not the rifle.

      Right now though, the 556 is not really on my radar.

    7. Senior Member NoDubJustYet's Avatar
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      08-07-2012 05:33 AM #7
      Whatever floats your boat... IMHO it's the best, most effective piston-driven rifle out there if you don't want some sort of AK.

      I honestly never even paid attention to the 556R - seemed kinda pointless. That being said, the "normal" 556 and even the 551-A1 ($$ mags be damned) are great rifles.

      I will have a SG552 inspired SBR one of these days.

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      08-09-2012 11:35 AM #8
      You're waiting for the ARX-160? I'm waiting for the damn MX-4.



      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    9. 08-09-2012 02:11 PM #9
      How is that any different from an SBR'ed carbine they sell here already? Looks the same to me.

    10. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-09-2012 05:36 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      How is that any different from an SBR'ed carbine they sell here already? Looks the same to me.
      Those aren't single shots you're hearing... those are 3 round bursts. Watch the video several times just to see how fast the bolt is moving.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    11. 08-09-2012 06:44 PM #11
      Right, but for civilian purposes, it's nothing for the US right?

    12. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      08-09-2012 07:01 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      Right, but for civilian purposes, it's nothing for the US right?
      I can see these replacing MP5s and some other guns in various department inventories. As for civilian use maybe only as a sample or a rental. You'd need some DEEP pockets and good hook-ups to get one into private hands. We'll probably end up seeing them only in movies.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    13. 05-21-2014 06:17 PM #13
      Well, ARX's are shipping...and yay...due to the cost of 5.56 I'm not likely end up buying one (unless it can function steel cased stuff 100%...).

      Oh well, here is the first review I've found. Stiff controls = boo (though something which maaaaay wear in, or someone like Tango Down will produce replacement parts with better function). I would buy an ARX in FDE/7.62x39 in a heartbeat but the rumors are no FDE for a year, and hell we'll probably never see the AK model. Might be time to look at the new Sig 556xi Russian instead.


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      05-22-2014 08:46 AM #14
      5.56 is still high, but its not near as bad as it was.

      Aim Surplus has PMC X-tac 62gr for $7.50 a box. Which is high, but not totally insane considering a 1000rnd case would set you back about $315 before all the crazy happened two years ago. Prices have been steadily dropping for the last 6 months or so, I've been watching component prices too, its getting more reasonable again. Recently bought 8lbs of powder for $85.

    15. 05-22-2014 10:37 AM #15
      meh. these plastic rifles are kind of like a solution looking for a problem, the ARX looks like the worst of them.

      its ugly, but whats worse, the plastic looks cheap, like the really cheap crap you get on a keltec or high point, the way the plastic is molded it looks rough and cheap and poorly done (as evidence by the stiff controls)

      the AMBI thing doesn't mean crap to me, I'm right handed. I have no use for it.

      the swapable barrels is ok, but what is required to swap calibers?

      folding stocks? again meh, especially with many of these newer collapse-able stocks with short buffer tubes.

      side charging? ok, I could see it coming in handy especially if you can't figure out how to lock the bolt back on a empty mag. I do not like reciprocating charging handles though.

      as far as the US military changing rifles, the fact is the AR platform is really still a better platform then all of these, simply due to its modularity. one lower receiver, with many, many possible combinations, where all the really important parts are standard. if they were to change anything, it would be a caliber swap to something that would maintain parts commonality.thats only because they keep trying to make the 5.56 something it was never designed to be.

      at least the SCAR looks cool.

    16. 05-23-2014 02:35 AM #16
      So, because it "looks" cheap and you don't need the functions it's a piss poor design? Got it.

    17. 05-23-2014 10:31 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      So, because it "looks" cheap and you don't need the functions it's a piss poor design? Got it.
      Uhh..

      from the video you posted, there were many points made about the stiffness of the trigger, the stiffness of the safety, and what seemed like a fairly difficult time operating the bolt release.

      this is a $1950(MSRP) rifle were talking about. not some cheap rifle, these would be complaints on a $800 rifle, they are pretty significant flaws on this one.

      the entire clunky large design is to accommodate the GLX-160, a grenade launcher not available (that I know of) to us.

      if were talking only plastic rifles you could get a AUG A3 for the same price, its almost $500 more then a Tavor (which means you could get a Tavor and a different barrel/cal swap, for the same price) and the FNFS2000 does everything better. thats not even accounting for the higher end non plastic rifles in the same price range, which theres too many to count.

      the quick barrel change thing is cool for caliber swaps, but you'd have to re zero your sights after every swap. 20 seconds to change it, 10 minuets to re zero.

      I'm just not seeing any advantage to this rifle.

    18. 05-23-2014 05:34 PM #18
      Yeah, well you kinda seem like you're talking out your ass is all.

      If you don't like it, don't buy it. But crying over "boo it's plastic and ugly...and I don't need the functions it offers" is kinda silly.

    19. Senior Member NoDubJustYet's Avatar
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      06-12-2014 11:12 AM #19
      http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/bere...-review-video/
      Beretta ARX 100




      After what feels like an absurdly long wait, Beretta is shipping the ARX 100 in 5.56. This is the civilian version of a battle rifle that’s currently in service in Italy and a handful of other countries. The rifle combines the operational familiarity of both the AR-15 platform and the AK platform into a versatile rifle that’s built for active service. Every detail of the gun is adaptable. Controls can be switched easily, without tools. Even the various calibers of barrels are interchangeable, on the fly. It is an impressive rifle. Beretta is calling the ARX 100 “The Ultimate Tactical Rifle.” Is it true?
      I’m not ready to answer that question. This is our first look at the rifle. I picked the gun up from my FFL this morning and had it on the range by noon. The sun has set, and I’m in front of the computer trying to make sense of my first impressions. Is it the Ultimate? Making that assertion is forcing us into a game of comparisons, a game gun reviewers (most shooters, really) are well equipped to play.
      The barrel isn’t as thin as it looks when compared to the rest of the gun.

      So let’s look at the competition. One of the defining features of the AR-15 platform is its modularity. Stocks, grips, forends, switches, levers, even uppers—all can be changed to fit the preferences of the user. But that isn’t the root of modularity. Modularity, as a concept, was conceived so that (in this case) rifles could be built on the assembly-line process. No hand-fitting pieces together, just snap them in place. What now passes as tactical fashion only appeared as an afterthought.
      We switch out grips and forends, seeking slight improvements in a gun that works quite well in its stock configuration. Changes that make a gun “custom” go against modularity. And a lot of the changes made to the AR platform require special tools. Changing out a barrel takes time. It is almost impossible to really alter the ways the controls work, unless you redesign the gun itself or add extra parts.
      The flip-up rear sight has a six-position aperture to accommodate targets at distances.

      The ARX changes some of this. You can still dress it up with accessories, but you can’t change out the stock, or the grip, or the forend. At least not yet. Instead, you can decide which of the three mag releases you want to use (left, right, or bottom). Within seconds, you can move the charging handle from the right to the left side. It is even easier to change ejection. A simple lever close to the stock switches the extractor from one side to the other.
      Beretta will eventually have more calibers available, all of which will be interchangeable. And they won’t require any advanced modification by a gunsmith or armorer to be adaptable. Left-handed shooters can pick up any ARX and make it fit their needs in seconds. You can see why a platform like this would be appealing to a department that may want to equip a number of shooters.
      The ARX 100 has one big leg up on most of the 5.56 competition. The rifle has a “constant contact/short-stroke gas piston system” that keeps fouling gases from emptying into the chamber. Even after shooting several hundred rounds this afternoon, the rifle remained incredibly clean. Though I can’t yet confirm this personally, I would imagine that this rifle won’t need to be cleaned as often as the typical AR. And when it does, cleaning the chamber will be much easier.
      Even though the forend is wide, you can still hold the ARX thumb-over-bore.

      The polymer chassis and stock make it light: seven pounds. This can be almost disconcerting. It looks much heavier than it is. When I picked it up, I was a bit shocked at how light it was. That’s a really attractive feature in a gun you may have to carry all day. And after you pull the trigger a couple of times, any misconceptions you may have about its ability to handle the recoil begin to fade. It is light, and the gun moves during recoil, but it is comparable to other 5.56s. When I was looking back at the video we shot on the range, I can see just how flat it shoots. There’s almost no rise at all.
      Shooting the ARX 100

      We shot a couple of different types of 5.56 and .223 through the rifle, and only one flavor gave us any issues. This rifle will not cycle steel-cased ammo. The steel-on-steel in the chamber was too much for the gun, and it couldn’t pull cases free. The extractor never popped off, which left an empty on the extractor. Clearing the jam wasn’t an issue, but you had to really muscle the bolt back all the way. After we’d gone to the range, I read some reports of issues with gen 3 PMAGS, but that isn’t something I can confirm yet. I’ll test it soon.
      The ARX 100 is much more intimidating from this end.

      The rifle shoulders easily, and the irons are easy to use. The rear sight has six different apertures that will allow for target engagement out to 800 yards. Maybe. I had no problem with the irons at 25 yards, or 100, but I can’t image pulling the trigger on a target 800 yards out with only iron sights. I know it can be done, but it isn’t something we often ask of our tactical rifles.
      The trigger on this rifle breaks somewhere north of 10 pounds. That’s where my scale stops. I would guess 11 pounds (and that is a very educated guess, thanks to the fact that the scale stops at 10 pounds). There is hardly any take-up, though. The break is clean, but heavy. Pull it like you mean it. I’m not sure what’s behind this. I’ve read that the trigger breaks closer to six pounds. I tested and retested, though.
      The ARX 100 is going on sale this week, and the price is $1,950. This isn’t out of line with a lot of piston-driven 5.56 rifles. And if you consider how much most of us spend on our ARs, getting them to fit and run just right, it is a competitive price.
      When the stock is folded, the BCG can be removed from this opening, but the lower has to be removed first.

      I first shot the ARX at the Beretta factory in Accokeek, Maryland, almost two years ago. I shot it again at the SHOT show. I’ve been impressed by the basic performance of the gun and have only just begun to push it through the rigorous testing that we will do for this review. But so far, everything is running smoothly. I wish I could say that about all of the guns we get in here. I can’t. But I do expect civilian versions of tactical rifles to function, flawlessly, with absolutely no break-in period. And the ARX has met those expectations, except for the steel-cased .223.
      Is the ARX 100 the Ultimate Tactical Rifle? I think we all recognize the obvious exaggeration. I will say this: the ARX 100 is forcing some new topics into the tactical conversation. The interchangeable calibers will be one area that the competition has to match. The ease of use, especially for lefties, isn’t easy to dismiss. The functionality-to-weight ratio makes other rifles in the same category seem unnecessarily heavy. And then there’s this—this gun may appeal even more to agencies than it will to individuals. If Beretta knows anything besides sporting shotguns and service pistols, it is contract competition. The ARX 100 may not be the ultimate, but it is going to change the game, and a couple of hundred AR-15 makers have just lost a bit more traction.

    20. Member SuperStar's Avatar
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      06-13-2014 12:00 AM #20
      looks like its chappy approved

    21. 06-13-2014 06:20 PM #21
      Unfortunately I think I'm out on this one. Seen a few reports that it won't eat steel cased ammo, and the bolt looks a bit too AR-like to me. I'm still open minded to an AK model, but for the money it'd have to eat steel. Also some people are reporting 10 lb. triggers while others are reporting 6 lb. triggers. I'll be waiting to see but it's probably a no-go at this point.

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      06-13-2014 07:29 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      Unfortunately I think I'm out on this one. Seen a few reports that it won't eat steel cased ammo, and the bolt looks a bit too AR-like to me. I'm still open minded to an AK model, but for the money it'd have to eat steel. Also some people are reporting 10 lb. triggers while others are reporting 6 lb. triggers. I'll be waiting to see but it's probably a no-go at this point.
      My BCM midlength eats all kinds of steel cased ammo.


      Just sayin'

    23. 06-13-2014 07:58 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboWraith View Post
      My BCM midlength eats all kinds of steel cased ammo.


      Just sayin'
      Yep, after running an AK I'm a bit miffed with any rifle which will not routinely eat steel (which unfortunately includes a lot of AR's too). If I see evidence to the contrary I'm still intrigued by the ARX but there is no excuse to not use a more robust extractor/bolt for 5.56 guns now days. Out of my buddies AR's and mine we had 6 guns...3 of which ate steel and 3 of which didn't - with no rhyme or reason between companies.

    24. 06-14-2014 10:08 AM #24
      First off, I didn't know I wasn't able to dislike a product, lest I disagree with someone and be "talking out of my ass". sorry.

      second, its failure to operate on steel cased ammo has to do with its gas system.

      its a under gassed short stroke piston. it doesn't have a lot of power to extract cases. steel cases tend to stick just a bit tighter, especially if it has a really tight chamber.

      on this gun, due to its open on both sides upper receiver design they needed to keep gas from getting into the bolt and receiver because it would blow gas in your face on every shot if it did. so they set the piston to open pretty damn late, assuring the pressures were nominal when extraction begins. due to this, you have significantly less energy to remove the case. its not a "bad" system, it just requires very specific cartridge specifications to operate correctly. in this case, brass 5.56.

      The down side to this other then being ammo picky, the rifle will probably require a different barrel with specially ported piston for suppressor use. no screwing on your suppressor, you'll probably break something with the extra gas, or you'll choke on it. the Tavor has a similar problem.

      forward ejection is the best way for ambi extraction.

    25. 06-14-2014 09:43 PM #25
      I was merely calling you out for parading an opinion as fact. That's all. You didn't say "I don't like X, and I don't need X" you just essentially said "X is dumb". Which is a little silly. You came off like a 1980's cop "all these new fangled plastic pistols!"

      I was secretly planning to be disappointed here, but I expected a last minute $2495 price or a 1/9 twist barrel, or...some other horrible last-minute change to be the disappointing factor. If brass 5.56 wasn't still expensive I'd even still consider the rifle, but as it is, just can't convince me. Time to start re-thinking.

    26. 06-14-2014 11:21 PM #26


      Here is MAC's initial take on it.

    27. 06-15-2014 05:58 PM #27
      Well the disappointment continues. Apparently numerous people (including Larry Vickers) have received ARX rifles with top rails which are out of order...and can't be readily fixed (I hope a warranty return could have you covered). My enthusiasm continues to dip. I'll patiently wait for the full MAC review as he's always unbiased and even-keeled.

      Oh well, guess I get to save myself some money.

    28. 06-16-2014 12:15 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      I was merely calling you out for parading an opinion as fact. That's all. You didn't say "I don't like X, and I don't need X" you just essentially said "X is dumb". Which is a little silly. You came off like a 1980's cop "all these new fangled plastic pistols!"
      I can see why you'd think that, except that it doesn't do what plastic pistols did, especially striker fired.

      they added reliability, low weight, simplicity, durability, and did so at the same, or lower cost then their steel competitors.

      these plastic rifles, add complexity, maybe lose a little weight, bring nothing as far as reliability, they don't add capacity, and their accuracy and modularity (which is a subject of debate) is questionable. on top of that, they almost double the cost of their competitors.

      the striker fired plastic pistol was a bit of a revolution for handguns. the plastic rifles are more like a side show. at this point, if manufactures really want to awe, it would be to design a new system that uses new concepts for ammo, and portability.. a second shot at the G11 if you will.

    29. 06-16-2014 06:25 PM #29
      But everything you just said is equal opinion...and you're looking at it from a civilian consumer stand point. Now, if the ARX isn't all its cracked up to be (and it doesn't appear to be unfortunately) so be it. But the ideas behind the system are a huge advancement for the real customers: military and police units.

      So, just because it has features that you may not use, doesn't mean it's not worthwhile. Things like the SCAR-L are a bit questionable because it was a lot of work to make a rifle which did very little beyond an AR (the SCAR-H is pretty fantastic though). And arguing complexity while pushing the merits of the AR is borderline laughable. That gun was a disaster when it was made and we've only band-aided it into a decent fighting gun. It still has way too many small parts, springs and other silly design features which we should have fixed a long time ago.

      I guess I want to hear legitimate arguments against the development of new rifles. Not arguments about price. We pay more for guns than most countries and we pay far more than most police departments/agencies and military purchases. That point is moot. We also pay criminal prices for ammunition. That has nothing to do with it. I'm not arguing you should go buy this rifle or some new rifle (Tavor, etc.) because it's cost effective and economical. I'm just curious in your genuine information that leads you to believe everything new sucks?

      PS: You know we're 10-15 years away from anyone giving up their grip on 5.56...unfortunately.

    30. 06-26-2014 04:19 PM #30
      I was all about this rifle before but the weird forend, A2 grip, little charging handle, and PMAG M3 compatibility just killed it for me. I ended up going with an ACR (has it's flaws as well) and I am happy so far. It's a huge maybe for me to get the ARX now but still cool that companies are working on new features on rifles.

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      08-18-2014 09:32 AM #31
      Checked one of these out last week... Didn't fire it, but....


      I don't know what to think. Really plastic; weight was funny; it felt really big and cumbersome. Plastic control parts felt junky.

      Hopefully it shoots better than it felt.

    32. 08-19-2014 04:13 AM #32
      So far the reviews have been really mediocre. So, I'm over it for the short term. Honestly after all of the terrible ammo price increases I'd be more prone to go with an AK model if it were available. It's off my radar though - seen some bad YouTube videos. Will wait for a good MAC video for an unbiased review.

    33. 08-19-2014 10:21 AM #33
      Elbows, ammo prices are falling fast. I got federal XM193 for $.33/ round, I've been trying to buy a bunch, steel is even cheaper.

      hell, I even got 10MM for about $.45, which makes me very happy (and poorer )

      steel .223 is running the same price as 7.62x39.

      what ever you shoot, buy now, stack deep. never know when it flips.

    34. Member ErikGTI's Avatar
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      08-20-2014 02:57 PM #34
      One of the gun shops/ranges near me has one. There's way too much plastic on that thing, it looks like a model kit. The quick change barrel is pretty awesome though, the guy there popped it out and back in in like 10 seconds. That being said it's so ugly it makes the SCAR look good.




      Erik
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    35. 08-22-2014 10:32 PM #35
      More mediocrity unfortunately.



      This is looking more and more like a "wait a year..." gun. If there is a Mk2 civilian version in FDE in a year or two I'll look at it again, but overall just hasn't impressed. Shame, like the ACR - good on paper, less awesome in reality.

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