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    Thread: Question for the g60 Guru's

    1. 08-04-2012 08:24 PM #1
      How do i get my g60 BBM stage 4 with 58mm pulley not to lean out?

    2. Member petethepug's Avatar
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      08-04-2012 09:06 PM #2
      The lean out issue that can occur is:

      The #1 cylinder at the end of the intake starving at high boost. The cure is this:
      SR ported G60 stage 1 intake manifold, powder coated

      and

      Run the set up on your car by someone at TT, BBM or buy a chip from SNS and they'll figure out what you need as far as fueling and chip tuning
      http://snstuning.co.uk/g60.php

      and

      with that small of a pulley you'll need a standby g-lader to swap in every 6-12 mos while your charger gets rebuilt / inspected.
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    3. 08-05-2012 08:11 PM #3
      I already have that manifold from nyfam on my car. and have my fuel pressure set at 50lbs and still leans at the top or my rpms.
      Last edited by jeffs vw; 08-05-2012 at 10:46 PM.

    4. Member petethepug's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 10:49 PM #4
      BEGI rising rate fpr - Forgot the key componet
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    5. 08-06-2012 12:05 AM #5
      Pete I have the BBM adjustable FPR. SHould my Fuel Pressure be higher you think?

    6. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 10:19 AM #6
      What injectors are you running? Sounds like you are running out of injector/fuel and the only way to get around that is larger injectors or higher fuel pressure. Both of which need need proper chip mapping or you will be fighting yourself. too rich down low to get ok up top, etc, etc... That is unless, you want to fiddle with a rising rate FPR, but that is all trial and error and wideband is a Must.


      Might be time to think about standalone if you want to push the envelope. Also, remember that the G60 ECU's MAP sensor is very limited (can only read up to 1 bar of boost), so you are already past what the ECU can interpret and the Map is just set to guess on what the Fuel needs are at full boost.

    7. 08-06-2012 05:58 PM #7
      i have 30lbs injectors. i noticed everytime i shift gears also in high rpms feels like the car falls flat on its face then starts to pull again...... like a hesitation thing. Any idea's what that can be? it also did it when i had a 68mm pulley on it. so i changed cap rotor vac lines plugs wires. 1 meter hose to the ecu. and re set my timing to 6. replaced fuel filter and knock sensor but still doing that hesitation. Does anyone know what is the difference between the purple label ecu and the brown? im running the brown. Didnt know if that maybe had something to do with it.

    8. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 11:49 PM #8
      W/o any wideband logs, it is all a guessing game.

      Do you have a Fuel Pressure gauge to see if you pump is giving up the ghost?

    9. 08-07-2012 10:41 AM #9
      My gauge is on the fuel rail. i guess i would have to go to a dyno and stand in place where i can see what its saying at WOT? but if it was fuel pump figured it would just give up. Not do what its doing to me. Wide open throttle first gear good. when i switch to second WOT then it feels like something is holding me back then starts to pick power up again. WEIRD

    10. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 12:08 PM #10
      My G60 does the same thing with a 68mm pulley. First gear is usless I feel it there also but it's really short revs very quick, when I get into second thats where I feel it the most. I have not pushed the car too much after that fearing a lean condition. I need a LM-2. I was thinking the ISV is opening and closing trying to control boost but I really don't know. I have a rebuilt G-ladder with no ISV-re-reoute pushing 9lbs. of boost.
      Car feels nice and strong with a little more boost and that surgeing gone it would be a really quick car.
      I'm wrighting it up here
      http://www.epmtuned.com/id269.html
      I have avoided using a smaller pulley for this reason and holding back from installing a Lysholm supercharger I have. Also I have been avoiding raising the fuel pressure too much to prevent puddling and ruin the engine. Currently using a 3.5 FPR.
      Last edited by Pete O. Arguelles; 08-08-2012 at 12:19 PM.

    11. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 12:52 PM #11
      Would this help from BARTEK tuning?


      http://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/ladedr...er+map+kpa.htm

    12. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 01:04 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      W/o any wideband logs, it is all a guessing game.

      Do you have a Fuel Pressure gauge to see if you pump is giving up the ghost?
      I thought that also but I have a brand new the updated Bosch pump in the car. By the way my G60 is a single pump car. Unless this pump is not providing enough fuel pressure I need a FPR in the car. I will be tigging up a BBM rail with this provision done one already just not for his car.
      Last edited by Pete O. Arguelles; 08-08-2012 at 01:07 PM.

    13. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 04:09 PM #13
      You have the same setup and the OP? 30# injectors @ 3.5 and BBM chip? Might want to start a different thread if not to prevent a LOT of confusion.

      I can tell you that years ago, I maxed out stock injectors early on after going Cam and 68mm pulley, ported charger, etc. 30# @ 3bar gives you only slightly more than stock injectors @ 3.5 bar. 30# @3.5 (with the correct chip mapping) should give you enough fuel for most setups with 65mm+. Small pulley than that and you are chasing a dream and either need a rising rate FPR, or larger injectors and upgraded MAP sensor with corresponding chip, or all of the above.

      If you guys insist on staying with Digi vs standalone and push the limits. You really need to get on the threads regarding programming your own chip via TunerPro and the .XDF quite a few people have been working on over the years. IMO of course...

    14. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 05:34 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      You have the same setup and the OP? 30# injectors @ 3.5 and BBM chip? Might want to start a different thread if not to prevent a LOT of confusion.

      I can tell you that years ago, I maxed out stock injectors early on after going Cam and 68mm pulley, ported charger, etc. 30# @ 3bar gives you only slightly more than stock injectors @ 3.5 bar. 30# @3.5 (with the correct chip mapping) should give you enough fuel for most setups with 65mm+. Small pulley than that and you are chasing a dream and either need a rising rate FPR, or larger injectors and upgraded MAP sensor with corresponding chip, or all of the above.

      If you guys insist on staying with Digi vs standalone and push the limits. You really need to get on the threads regarding programming your own chip via TunerPro and the .XDF quite a few people have been working on over the years. IMO of course...
      My set up is stock injectors, 3.5 bosch FPReg, BBM STG3 chip, Stock cam.
      I'm not new to G60's but very new to tuning. I have made my G60's look good IMO now i'm trying to make them faster. Would love to work with the stock digi 1 but not limited to it and would go standalone.

    15. 08-09-2012 11:20 AM #15
      Ive done about everything and changed everything but still dont know where the hesitation comes from. Im currently running bbm stage 4 kit ported head, ported manifold 68mm pulley tt header front mount intercooler rebuilt charger with mini port isv re route. changed every vacum hose fuel pump fuel filter cap rotor plugs wires etc. im out of idea's now.

      forgot im running bbm fpr have it set at 50 psi with 30lbs injectors

    16. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-09-2012 11:41 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by jeffs vw View Post
      ...

      forgot im running bbm fpr have it set at 50 psi with 30lbs injectors
      What FP is your Chip programmed for? If you are running Higher than you will hit some very very spots down low (but may be fine up top). You need to get a wideband to see what is happening. You might also want to look at the Fuel Pressure during that time to see what is happening if anything (rule that out). Tape it to your Wiper LOL

    17. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-09-2012 04:29 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by jeffs vw View Post
      Ive done about everything and changed everything but still dont know where the hesitation comes from. Im currently running bbm stage 4 kit ported head, ported manifold 68mm pulley tt header front mount intercooler rebuilt charger with mini port isv re route. changed every vacum hose fuel pump fuel filter cap rotor plugs wires etc. im out of idea's now.

      forgot im running bbm fpr have it set at 50 psi with 30lbs injectors
      My car does the exact same thing although I don't have all the mods u do. I can tell you this at work we have a mile long straight away rd to get home. After the car has been parked for 12hrs. we get out on the rd and get on it, with a cool engine the hesitation or surge is not there or is very little unnoticeable. Car feels twice as strong then. I know a cool engine produces more power even more when the air is dry and cool. But without the surge being there it revs so nice feels very strong.

    18. 08-09-2012 06:20 PM #18
      i might need to do that. wideband and look at fuel pressure underload. im eventually gonna figure it out. or keep asking questions

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      08-10-2012 12:49 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by jeffs vw View Post
      i have 30lbs injectors. i noticed everytime i shift gears also in high rpms feels like the car falls flat on its face then starts to pull again...... like a hesitation thing. Any idea's what that can be? it also did it when i had a 68mm pulley on it. so i changed cap rotor vac lines plugs wires. 1 meter hose to the ecu. and re set my timing to 6. replaced fuel filter and knock sensor but still doing that hesitation. Does anyone know what is the difference between the purple label ecu and the brown? im running the brown. Didnt know if that maybe had something to do with it.


      Never seen a brown ecu? My original one was white. I'm running a purple ecu now. Could the brown ecu be specific for California's smog?

    20. 08-11-2012 02:35 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by g60301 View Post


      Never seen a brown ecu? My original one was white. I'm running a purple ecu now. Could the brown ecu be specific for California's smog?
      Oops.... i mean White label ecu i have. is there a difference between white and purple? i have one of those also.

    21. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 03:46 PM #21
      p[weuitgjocn o2g[12v
      Last edited by Pete O. Arguelles; 09-26-2012 at 03:06 AM.

    22. 08-14-2012 07:30 PM #22
      well after all the Shiiiit i went thru changing. i think i got it. it hasnt hesitated since. I replaced the positive wire thats on the alternator and the blue wire also. and my ECU hose was 33 inches long not 1 meter exactly. and hasnt done it since. So i slapped my 62mm pulley and seems like its pullying good. just my Narrow band showing lean in the top with 51 psi on my fuel pressure gauge. not sure if i should add more? I thought we were suppose to run 3.5 bars?

    23. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-14-2012 11:01 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by jeffs vw View Post
      well after all the Shiiiit i went thru changing. i think i got it. it hasnt hesitated since. I replaced the positive wire thats on the alternator and the blue wire also. and my ECU hose was 33 inches long not 1 meter exactly. and hasnt done it since. So i slapped my 62mm pulley and seems like its pullying good. just my Narrow band showing lean in the top with 51 psi on my fuel pressure gauge. not sure if i should add more? I thought we were suppose to run 3.5 bars?
      3.5 bar should be when the FPR is at ATM (vac line pinched or open). Fuel pressure under boost should be 3.5 + boost. So 1 bar of boost, Fuel Pressure should be 4.5 bar in this case. If it is not, then your FPR is not working or connected correctly.

    24. 08-15-2012 12:56 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      3.5 bar should be when the FPR is at ATM (vac line pinched or open). Fuel pressure under boost should be 3.5 + boost. So 1 bar of boost, Fuel Pressure should be 4.5 bar in this case. If it is not, then your FPR is not working or connected correctly.
      so 3.5 bar is 51.45 psi this is what i have on my gauge while hose plugged into my bahn brenner adjustable FPR at idle.

      So your saying i should raise it up to 4.5 which will equal to 66.15 psi while at idle plugged in or do you mean while unplugged?

      Sorry for being confused just trying to get my car to not lean out so much
      Last edited by jeffs vw; 08-15-2012 at 01:10 AM.

    25. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-15-2012 06:56 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by jeffs vw View Post
      so 3.5 bar is 51.45 psi this is what i have on my gauge while hose plugged into my bahn brenner adjustable FPR at idle.

      So your saying i should raise it up to 4.5 which will equal to 66.15 psi while at idle plugged in or do you mean while unplugged?

      Sorry for being confused just trying to get my car to not lean out so much
      Then throw the DIGI junk ECU in the trash where it belongs and go standalone.
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    26. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-15-2012 10:02 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by jeffs vw View Post
      so 3.5 bar is 51.45 psi this is what i have on my gauge while hose plugged into my bahn brenner adjustable FPR at idle.

      So your saying i should raise it up to 4.5 which will equal to 66.15 psi while at idle plugged in or do you mean while unplugged?

      Sorry for being confused just trying to get my car to not lean out so much
      That is not what I said at all. If you want your Fuel pressure to be @ 3.5 Bar (AND have a chip mapped for that):

      - Your base fuel pressure should be 3.5 bar --- At IDLE --- With FPR Vac Line pinched or open to Atmosphere. NOTE: It will read lower than 3.5 bar at idle WITH the vac line hooked up because you will be under Vacuum.

      - Your Fuel Pressure should read the Following Under Boost: Base Fuel Pressure + amount of boost at any given point.

      3.5 + .5 Bar Boost = 4 Bar FP on the gauge
      3.5 + 1 Bar Boost = 4.5 Bar FP on the gauge

      etc, etc..

      If you are not seeing this under the respective boost, than something is wrong. Fuel Pump can not keep up, etc etc.

      If you are still not clear on this, then you need to research how the Fuel Pressure Regulator works in a Forced Ind motor.

      Also, you can not Tune you car with Fuel Pressure, so you should run what the Chip is mapped for. You can make small adjustments but, at some point you will be too rich down low to try and get more fuel up top.

      You can't shove manure up a horse's arse and get hay out of his mouth Digi is limited.

    27. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-15-2012 10:11 AM #27
      to add (so you can understand what was said at the top of this thread), the above reference is for a standard, 1:1 Fuel Pressure Regulator. A Rising Rate FPR such as Begi, can be adjusted to give non-linear increases in fuel pressure under boost. This is a piss poor way to try try and tune a car in the 21st century. Especially since a Digi Chip and RR FPR will be getting in the Neighborhood of a basic Standalone.

    28. 08-15-2012 11:06 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      That is not what I said at all. If you want your Fuel pressure to be @ 3.5 Bar (AND have a chip mapped for that):

      - Your base fuel pressure should be 3.5 bar --- At IDLE --- With FPR Vac Line pinched or open to Atmosphere. NOTE: It will read lower than 3.5 bar at idle WITH the vac line hooked up because you will be under Vacuum.

      - Your Fuel Pressure should read the Following Under Boost: Base Fuel Pressure + amount of boost at any given point.

      3.5 + .5 Bar Boost = 4 Bar FP on the gauge
      3.5 + 1 Bar Boost = 4.5 Bar FP on the gauge

      etc, etc..

      If you are not seeing this under the respective boost, than something is wrong. Fuel Pump can not keep up, etc etc.

      If you are still not clear on this, then you need to research how the Fuel Pressure Regulator works in a Forced Ind motor.

      Also, you can not Tune you car with Fuel Pressure, so you should run what the Chip is mapped for. You can make small adjustments but, at some point you will be too rich down low to try and get more fuel up top.

      You can't shove manure up a horse's arse and get hay out of his mouth Digi is limited.
      Thanks for the answers Heading to the dyno today to see what car is doing and where i should set the fuel pressure.

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      08-16-2012 08:34 PM #29
      And, the Digi1 ECU is really not that bad contrary to popular belief ..... provided you take the time to understand it! The only way to do that is to dissasemble the code in the chip and spend countless hours figuring out what it does.

      The reason people don't like it, is generally because when they have an issue with their car, the ECU doesn't output diagnostic information. So... they get very frustrated trying to figure out what is wrong.

    30. 08-18-2012 11:36 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by DigiMatrix View Post
      And, the Digi1 ECU is really not that bad contrary to popular belief ..... provided you take the time to understand it! The only way to do that is to dissasemble the code in the chip and spend countless hours figuring out what it does.

      The reason people don't like it, is generally because when they have an issue with their car, the ECU doesn't output diagnostic information. So... they get very frustrated trying to figure out what is wrong.
      Indeed

    31. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 06:54 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by DigiMatrix View Post
      And, the Digi1 ECU is really not that bad contrary to popular belief ..... provided you take the time to understand it! The only way to do that is to dissasemble the code in the chip and spend countless hours figuring out what it does.

      The reason people don't like it, is generally because when they have an issue with their car, the ECU doesn't output diagnostic information. So... they get very frustrated trying to figure out what is wrong.
      Not in my case, I don't care for it because I understand just how primitive and limited it is. An MS1 V3.0 has more processing power and capability than a Digi 1.
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    32. 08-23-2012 06:04 PM #32
      Well i figured it out today! I have a high flow little catalytic Converter on my car. it was plugged and couldnt tell it was cause the Cat is very small and doesnt rattle the honey comb inside when i rev it. it was jammed between the Header collecter and the cat!!! hollowed it today and WOW big difference.

      Just wanted to tell everyone since i went thru hell trying to figure this out. and glad since i Love G60's

    33. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-23-2012 09:14 PM #33

    34. 08-24-2012 06:08 PM #34
      My Stage 4 from BBM Feels like a STage 4 kit after unclogging my Catalytic Converter. heading to the track tonight now that it feels awesome!

      Thanks Jason for the help & John at BBM!

      Cant wait to try the Stage 5 after tonight!!!!


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      08-29-2012 05:06 PM #35
      How did it run at the track, Jeff?
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