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    Thread: should? should not? Engine management thoughts (MS)

    1. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 06:39 AM #1
      so..

      i just started thinking.. should i, or should i not install MS on the G60?

      i've got a few gremlins on the G60, like ignition knock, and jerkyness while driving..

      Thing is, the DF1 ecu is getting old. over 20 year old injection technology

      and, i've got some crap in my garage just collecting dust, might as well use it?


      what i've got today is:

      MS2 v3 ECU, modified for hall and direct coil fire
      GM IAT sensor
      GM CLT sensor
      Innovate LC-1 with G5 gauge

      then i probably need a TPS, can do without, but faster response using TPS rather then MAP only


      so. is it worth it? swiching to MS i mean? would it be stable? start when needed, run like it should for miles and miles with no hiccup? in cold weather, warm weather and snow/rain etc?


      hard desicion this
      Last edited by weejunGL; 09-13-2012 at 03:41 PM.

    2. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 07:17 AM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      so..

      i just started thinking.. should i, or should i not install MS on the G60?

      i've got a few gremlins on the G60, like ignition knock, and jerkyness while driving..

      Thing is, the DF1 ecu is getting old. over 20 year old injection technology

      and, i've got some crap in my garage just collecting dust, might as well use it?


      what i've got today is:

      MS2 v3 ECU, modified for hall and direct coil fire
      GM IAT sensor
      GM CLT sensor
      Innovate LC-1 with G5 gauge

      then i probably need a TPS, can do without, but faster response using TPS rather then MAP only


      so. is it worth it? swiching to MS i mean? would it be stable? start when needed, run like it should for miles and miles with no hiccup? in cold weather, warm weather and snow/rain etc?


      hard desicion this
      There are people out there with Megasquirt systems that have been running their cars for years and tens of thousands of miles. I personally put over 20K miles on my corrado before I rolled it and my new corrado is getting the same set up ( MS3/3X).

      A lot of how well MS works for you depends on the install. If you use crappy wiring with cracked insulation, corrosion and cheap butt splices, then you'll have problems with reliability. Do a nice clean install and everything will be fine. But don't expect things to be perfect instantly. Even with TunerStudio's awesome autotune function it takes time and patience to get everything dialed in.

      And BTW I have a G60 auto throttle body with TPS for sale cheap!
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
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    3. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 07:32 AM #3
      all wiring related to the ECU will be new. wrapped in TESA cloth tape

      all splices if needed will be done as i usally do them (solder and heatshrink tubing)


      when i think of it, i've got a knocksense unit in the garage aswell. still unused



      Could you PM me regarding the Auto G60 TB? possibly take some pictures of it please

      the more i think if it, the more i want to do it, but i have to be a bit careful, this is my daily driver!


      i'm thinking of for a basemap, just translate whats on my chip today onto the ignition on the MS, just to get myself a basepoint for further tuning


      and, to the injectors, how to fire them, all at once using only one output? or fire them all at once using two outputs? (alternating/simulanious?) what would yield the best result?

    4. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 07:43 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      all wiring related to the ECU will be new. wrapped in TESA cloth tape

      all splices if needed will be done as i usally do them (solder and heatshrink tubing)


      when i think of it, i've got a knocksense unit in the garage aswell. still unused



      Could you PM me regarding the Auto G60 TB? possibly take some pictures of it please

      the more i think if it, the more i want to do it, but i have to be a bit careful, this is my daily driver!


      i'm thinking of for a basemap, just translate whats on my chip today onto the ignition on the MS, just to get myself a basepoint for further tuning


      and, to the injectors, how to fire them, all at once using only one output? or fire them all at once using two outputs? (alternating/simulanious?) what would yield the best result?
      The Corrado I rolled was my daily and my new one will be the same.

      I like to wire my injectors as follows. Bank 1: injectors 1 and 4 Bank 2: injectors 2 and 3 2 Squirts alternating. I have had good luck doing things this way on like 20+ MS installs
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
      Sandy Linfert 11/4/1991 - 5/13/2013

    5. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 08:18 AM #5
      that sounds logical to me


      do you know how to wire in the bosch ISV aswell? seems like running one would be the best option, since temperatures here in norway can be from -30c to + 30c

    6. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 08:37 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      that sounds logical to me


      do you know how to wire in the bosch ISV aswell? seems like running one would be the best option, since temperatures here in norway can be from -30c to + 30c
      yeah it's easy but you have to do a TIP120 mod to the Fidle output.
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
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    7. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 09:11 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      yeah it's easy but you have to do a TIP120 mod to the Fidle output.
      okay, good to now. have to do a search for that then

    8. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 09:23 AM #8
      another thing, when you set up the MS on your corrado, did you use the distributor? (4 window hall) ?

    9. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 10:08 AM #9
      lots of questions and requests here now, oh well


      does anyone have a usable MSQ file for the G60? using Stock hallsensor and Direct Coil fire?


      would be extremly helpfull in aiding the initial setup of the MS on the G60

    10. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 11:24 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      another thing, when you set up the MS on your corrado, did you use the distributor? (4 window hall) ?
      No because i didn't run a G60. At first it had an ABA in it and then a 2020T, so I used the ABA 60-2 tooth crank trigger. Going the same route on the new one. ABA first while I rebuild the 2020 with forged pistons/good rods. Not going to run a KO3 this time. EFR6258 or GT2871R.
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
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    11. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 11:52 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      another thing, when you set up the MS on your corrado, did you use the distributor? (4 window hall) ?
      But I have set up several CIS/DIGI2 conversions using the 4 window hall distributor. It's easy enough.
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
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    12. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 01:00 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      But I have set up several CIS/DIGI2 conversions using the 4 window hall distributor. It's easy enough.
      aha, what did you use for engine constants?


      trigger angle 60 or 90 degrees?

    13. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-05-2012 09:44 PM #13
      Been Running MS on my G60 for over 5 years. Probably 20k+ miles w/o a hitch (after 1 incident on initial setup where I lost an IGN driver, but those have been obsolete years ago).

      I have a couple of G60 Files that I can provide (with Disclaimers of course). However, you would need to be running the same hardware. I have nothing for MSII. I have MS1 Extra High Res and MSIII. Both quality files for 42# injectors and 3 bar, Stock G60 motor with 268/260 Cam, Distributer, etc.. Aggressive Timing maps.

    14. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 05:55 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      Been Running MS on my G60 for over 5 years. Probably 20k+ miles w/o a hitch (after 1 incident on initial setup where I lost an IGN driver, but those have been obsolete years ago).

      I have a couple of G60 Files that I can provide (with Disclaimers of course). However, you would need to be running the same hardware. I have nothing for MSII. I have MS1 Extra High Res and MSIII. Both quality files for 42# injectors and 3 bar, Stock G60 motor with 268/260 Cam, Distributer, etc.. Aggressive Timing maps.
      MS2/Extra and MS3 are close enough that the basics will copy over directly.
      The Professor
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      92 Corrado OBD2 ABA-T (BW EFR 6258) Powered by MS3Pro
      Linfert Performance: The Megasquirt guy in central Florida Like my Facebook page....
      Sandy Linfert 11/4/1991 - 5/13/2013

    15. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 10:22 AM #15
      i only need the base, to have me started. i've been working on translating info from the DF1 chip i'm using now to the digifant. just to have a base.

      but if anyone has one which is more suitable i'm all for it

      enginewise its not much

      heavily ported charger with a 68mm wheel
      other then that its stock to the bone

      0.9bar charger output

      going to use as said the stock dizzy, and i'm using an MSD blaster 2 coil

    16. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 11:31 AM #16
      PM me your email and I will send you my MS3 File.

    17. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-06-2012 02:12 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      PM me your email and I will send you my MS3 File.
      PMd you, looking forward to you email


      Thanks

    18. Member Pete O. Arguelles's Avatar
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      08-08-2012 01:54 PM #18
      Not to hi jack this post but I would love to put my G60 on MS3 or any good standalone, needs to be user freindly. I just don't know what to buy, where to buy it, how to install it , and how to work it.

    19. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-15-2012 12:51 PM #19
      then i'm one step closer just got myself a Throttlebody w/TPS

    20. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 01:06 PM #20
      sensor placement, where have people mounted the IAT and CLT sensors on the 8v counterflow?


      i'm thinking of using the GM iat and clt sensors, since they are cheap, and not need any fiddling with inorder to work as they should

    21. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 08:31 AM #21
      With MSIII and (I think MSII as well Jeff can confirm), you no longer need to use Easy Therm and compile the .inc files for diff sensors. You just set it in the software (TunerStudio) from a drop down. So, it makes little difference what you use. Best best it to use the Bosch ones you have from the G60 and their stock placement.

    22. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 10:45 AM #22
      that could be done, but then what about the IAT?



      and, about that TIP120 mod to make the bosch IAC valve work.. i've got something called TIP122 lying around. can these be used? or not?

      Dan

    23. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 11:44 AM #23
      2 of the pins on the G60 "CO Pot" are the IAT which uses the std Bosch IAT values. This all assuming you still have the G60 sensors, placed etc. If not, there is nothing wrong with going with the GM sensors (open element for IAT only, closed for CLT).

      For the TIP, you can use either the 120 or 122. Just follow the Board modifications necessary for this. Then you will need to lookup/search/ask for the IAC values people used successfully. I wired up the TIP, but don't even run the ISV (it is needed to idle if you run A/C though, but I just never got around to putting the ISV back in LOL). ...also needed if you get very very harsh winters and you want it to idle immediately on first start.

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      08-22-2012 11:52 AM #24
      Got MS2-E based board on my car. Though it havent seen much of driving because lack of time and intrests. Its working with stock sensors, without TPS and with VW oem 60-2 wheel + hall from some more modern 1.6 engine (I think).

      Stock IAC was busted so I just replaced it with similar from audi which I got free. Just find correct duty table and you are good to go. For stock mega board you need the TIP120/121/122 transistor to run PWM idle valves.

      My challenge is to make car run stable idle and up to 3000rpm at ~14.30 - 15.1 AFR to pass smog test (and inspector not to notice my little modifications )

      EDIT you can use stock IAT, just leave the CO pot wire unconnected. Hope this diagram helps: http://obi.1g.fi/kuvat/Corrado+Proje...0ECU2.jpg/full

    25. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 11:56 AM #25
      what are the stock bosch iat values then?

      going the route makes a bit sense. makes it look more OEM, which is kinda needed in this country, since anything else but stock ecu is not allowed (but wheres the fun in that?)

    26. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 12:02 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by sdezego View Post
      With MSIII and (I think MSII as well Jeff can confirm), you no longer need to use Easy Therm and compile the .inc files for diff sensors. You just set it in the software (TunerStudio) from a drop down. So, it makes little difference what you use. Best best it to use the Bosch ones you have from the G60 and their stock placement.
      Yes MS2 and MS3 can set thermistor values through TunerStudioMS
      The Professor
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    27. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 12:04 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      what are the stock bosch iat values then?
      They are in the Bently manual.
      The Professor
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    28. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 01:13 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      They are in the Bently manual.
      not in the MK2 one? thats the only one i've got


      the bentley does not cover our european engine park as much as yours

    29. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 11:54 AM #29
      more progress now.


      G60 auto TB is arrived and looking good
      New wiringloom and some other small bits ordered from diyautotune today (loom, bip, tip and a pullup kit)
      Innovate MTX-L wideband 02 (decided to ditch the old LC-1 with G5 gauge)

      sooooo.. its getting there

      thinking of removing the fuelpump under the car and mount an aeromotive stealth pump in the tank instead. but a but unsure how this will behave when fuel levels are low - input needed on the matter

    30. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      09-13-2012 10:57 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by weejunGL View Post
      ...
      thinking of removing the fuelpump under the car and mount an aeromotive stealth pump in the tank instead. but a but unsure how this will behave when fuel levels are low - input needed on the matter
      Don't do it if that is your concern. Look at at recent thread I posted to in the Forced Ind Forum. People just refuse to listen to good advice

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      09-14-2012 02:54 PM #31
      Wonder if single fuel pump from later model corrados will fit into fuel tank? They got small resevoir/splash tank:



      In picture Bosch stock sparepart pump to replace original Pierburg (single pump model).

    32. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 06:53 AM #32
      well. looks like i just should invest in a few new stock replacement pumps then


      i doubt that the "intank-only" pump from Corrado/passat etc will fit, as they have mountingpoints on the bottom of the tank

    33. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      09-23-2012 10:51 AM #33
      this thread should be called my G60 Syncro MS project


      anyhow. still waiting for parts, and meanwhile, i'm doing some non-scientific portwork to G60 cylinderhead

      nothing too aggressive, but some cleaning and gasketmatching. along with small reshaping around the valveguides inorder to increase flow around the valvestem etc

      seeing how badly vw casted their heads in the 80s, makes me feel like i can't do worse lots and lots of rugged edges and leftover metal from the casting process

      cleaned all valves today, made them shine again. i know i should get the valveseats recut, but i won't this time. some good lapping of valves should do. had a good seal when valves was dirty

      no pics, since i forgot my cam at home

    34. Member sdezego's Avatar
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      09-24-2012 09:20 AM #34

    35. Member weejunGL's Avatar
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      09-24-2012 01:55 PM #35
      should i run +5v or +12v to the hall?

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