True Cost of One Accident?

[dcmix5]

TCLCSBOTD

I was on my way to work this morning, enjoying my hybrid as usual, when 43 seconds after my freeway merge traffic comes to a crawl. This happens from time to time, but when it happens this quickly, I know my 20 minute cushion I use for leaving early will not be enough. So, I sit...and sit, and sit and sit...maybe moving 100 yards in 20 minutes. Eventually I got up to the delay, and it was a Panamera, a truck and a sedan of some type involved in a 3 way metal orgy, all just minor - with two cop cars blocking the left lane of the two lane road.

So, this got me thinking. What is the true cost of this delay? For me personally, it took 45 minutes out of my morning meeting. Multiply "X" minutes wasted for the hundreds and hundreds of people slowed heavily by this accident this morning, and somewhere, a large some of money has to pop out the other end.

What if we lived in a world where the driver at fault was assigned a "stupid tax" for causing this. We could establish some formula to calculate average traffic for this time of day, this time of year, and assign a premium based on time delay. So, instead of getting a $143 dollar ticket for reckless driving, etc, Mr. Johnson gets the $143 ticket, plus a $178,000 fine for time lost because he was an impatient moron who made everyone late.

That is obviously an extreme and joking example, but I wish there was something in place to make the rage tolerable while I sit because of this stuff.

[WakusPakus]

i read somewhere that in the greater NYC area - 1 minute of a stalled/dead car on the road = 7 mins of delays.

[mhjett]

In all honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few academic studies out there of the economic effects of traffic delays.

You think it's bad in Grand Rapids (I grew up there), try driving around Northern Virginia some time...

[GLI Dan]

If cops didn't unnecessarily block the road ways and people didn't slow down below the speed limit whenever they see cops/accidents most traffic delays would not occur.

I also read somewhere a couple years ago that in california if everyone just drove with the proper distance between there vehicles traffic would never actually get to a stand still/crawl as it does.

[phryxis]

I also think about the same metrics when thinking about really poorly timed traffic lights.

[Fe2O3]

If cops didn't unnecessarily block the road ways and people didn't slow down below the speed limit whenever they see cops/accidents most traffic delays would not occur.

I've seen police and fire trucks blocking crazy amounts of extra space for minor collisions. It's aggravating as hell to see a fire engine crossed over 2 lanes an addition to the one involved.
There are laws on the books requiring you to slow down or move over for emergency vehicles if you're adjacent. I think those lanes trying to shift over end up bogging them all down.

[koston.]

I also read somewhere a couple years ago that in california if everyone just drove with the proper distance between there vehicles traffic would never actually get to a stand still/crawl as it does.

This. Drive a stick. Now drive it correctly, in traffic. You rarely ever come to a complete stop if you're doing it right.

[saron81]

This. Drive a stick. Now drive it correctly, in traffic. You rarely ever come to a complete stop if you're doing it right.

Seattle doesn't have quite the same traffic problems as the Balto/DC metro area.
You sit a lot.

[dcmix5]

In all honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few academic studies out there of the economic effects of traffic delays.

You think it's bad in Grand Rapids (I grew up there), try driving around Northern Virginia some time...

So, you must know about the great East Beltline "cut across 4 lanes and try not to die merge" then?

Many a butt-puckering moment in this genius spot...you've got two left lanes that have cars that are trying to exit into one lane, and then you have that one exit lane and the straight lane with people trying to get the hell out of it and into the left lanes.

[mhjett]

So, you must know about the great East Beltline "cut across 4 lanes and try not to die merge" then?

Many a butt-puckering moment in this genius spot...you've got two left lanes that have cars that are trying to exit into one lane, and then you have that one exit lane and the straight lane with people trying to get the hell out of it and into the left lanes.

Oh, I sure do. That was part of may daily evening commute when I worked in Walker and lived in Southeast GR. You actually only cut across 3 lanes - from the right lane on 96 to the far right exit lane for the EBLine, right? Honestly, I enjoyed the challenge. My grandmother, on the other hand, refuses to drive to my parents' house in GR simply because she doesn't want to do the East Beltline merge-of-death.

Sometimes I wonder how much time and gas (mostly, gas) is wasted by poorly-timed traffic lights. Speaking of the East Beltline, I always loved how perfectly timed all the lights are, from Leonard/Celebration Cinema area all the way down to 28th Street. At night, you can even see when the cross streets are about to turn red and keep your speed up right before the Beltline lights turn green.

You wanna see a crazy intersection? Come to Northern VA some time and try driving thru Seven Corners, your head is guaranteed to explode. I still haven't figured it out.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Corners,_Virginia

Management of traffic at the intersection

The namesake "seven" corners has long since disappeared, having been replaced by somewhat more motorist-friendly intersections which well exceed the former seven. Motorists bound in any direction are subject to one or more stoplight signals. There is a pedestrian bridge over US 50. The roads themselves are not pedestrian-friendly.
The traffic is managed as follows from the following roads:

• US Route 50 (US 50) is set up as a freeway that runs east–west along Arlington Boulevard in the area. US 50 has a series of frontage roads that connect to the other roadways in the intersection. Through traffic can continue on the freeway itself unimpeded by the local traffic in the intersection.

• State Road 7 (SR 7) is a four- to six-lane roadway, separated by a median following East Broad Street to the northwest or Leesburg Pike to the southeast of the intersection. Motorists may access any of the other roads.

• State Road 338 (SR 338) terminates in the intersection from the northwest. Traffic proceeding southeast defaults onto SR 7 south.

• Sleepy Hollow Road terminates with northbound traffic defaulting to follow SR 7 to the southeast. Secondary State Route 613 follows Sleepy Hollow to the south and continues along Wilson Boulevard to the northeast.

• Wilson Boulevard terminates at the intersection from the northeast. Southbound traffic defaults to follow the US 50 frontage road northwesterly which connects to SR 7 northbound. From this frontage road, traffic may access all other directions of the other roads in the intersection.

[dcmix5]

Da fuq is that?

I bet it looked good on paper

[seadoo2006]

i read somewhere that in the greater NYC area - 1 minute of a stalled/dead car on the road = 7 mins of delays.

In true form to your signature, I once got a flat in my rental Kia Rio about 1/4 of the way to Queens on the 59th Street Bridge ... limped it to about halfway before the tire came off the rim. Not wanting to pay $200 for a tow off the bridge, I did the fastest flat tire change of my life in the middle of the bridge with traffic. Took just under 10 mins to get the donut on and I was on my way.

Heard on the radio I caused an hour-long traffic jam going into Queens ... NYPD heading into Manhattan stopped for like 30 seconds before yelling at me that I was an idiot right as I was throwing the flat tire in the back of the car.

Oh well, not paying for someone to tow me off some god-forsaken Manhattan bridge, lol ...

[PsyberVW]

If cops didn't unnecessarily block the road ways and people didn't slow down BELOW the speed limit whenever they see cops/accidents most traffic delays would not occur.

Ummm. That is the MAXIMUM limit, not the suggested average speed.

I also read somewhere a couple years ago that in california if everyone just drove with the proper distance between there vehicles traffic would never actually get to a stand still/crawl as it does.

"Traffic" is a ripple effect caused by people who have to hit their brakes because they are moving faster than the car ahead of them.

Instead of everyone doing 80 and then slamming on the brakes when someone merges in at 55 and tries to accelerate-- if everyone were doing 65 that person would have more room/time to accelerate without causing other drivers to slow down as much (1% instead of 10%)..

Consistency is key, and not braking means never actually catching up to the guy ahead of you. If you adjust your driving habits in this way, you will drive much more efficiently.

People love following me in rush hour traffic because I minimize the amount of braking and do everything possible to keep my car moving-including not always accelerating as much as I could. From time to time someone will cut in front of me, thinking my lane is faster - only to keep perpetuating the stop and go rhythm.

Traffic is caused by people driving too fast.

[SVTDanny]

You wanna see a crazy intersection? Come to Northern VA some time and try driving thru Seven Corners, your head is guaranteed to explode. I still haven't figured it out.

It's no big deal as long as you just stay on 50, since the cluster**** occurs above it.

[seadoo2006]

Ummm. That is the MAXIMUM limit, not the suggested average speed.




"Traffic" is a ripple effect caused by people who have to hit their brakes because they are moving faster than the car ahead of them.

Instead of everyone doing 80 and then slamming on the brakes when someone merges in at 55 and tries to accelerate-- if everyone were doing 65 that person would have more room/time to accelerate without causing other drivers to slow down as much (1% instead of 10%)..

Consistency is key, and not braking means never actually catching up to the guy ahead of you. If you adjust your driving habits in this way, you will drive much more efficiently.

People love following me in rush hour traffic because I minimize the amount of braking and do everything possible to keep my car moving-including not always accelerating as much as I could. From time to time someone will cut in front of me, thinking my lane is faster - only to keep perpetuating the stop and go rhythm.

Traffic is caused by people driving too slow.

Fixed that for you. If people would just merge at the speed of traffic, if people actually drove in traffic lanes the way they were designed (right = at speed limit, left = passing), and if people yielded to faster traffic behind them (by speeding up and moving right), then traffic would be negated.

[[spoon]]

I think traffic lights are more of a problem than accidents because accidents are not something you can really control. They happen and should be dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible but they will likely never go away.

When the subways were smoke bombed and shut down in Montreal an economist said that those shut downs cost about $3-million/hour in lost economic activity. Inefficient road ways are a huge drain on economies. While they're not usually shut down for hours, little delays certainly add up to much larger ones as they compound on top of another.

[PsyberVW]

Fixed that for you. If people would just merge at the speed of traffic, if people actually drove in traffic lanes the way they were designed (right = at speed limit, left = passing), and if people yielded to faster traffic behind them (by speeding up and moving right), then traffic would be negated.

That doesn't negate my statement at all. This is an additional factor, but the bottom line will always be: The person applying the brakes is causing the traffic, regardless of why they are compelled to do so.

Understanding that cars are entering the highway and need time to accelerate, there is a known maximum speed at which you can safely/comfortably drive that will give you response time to allow those vehicles to enter/exit the highway with minimal disruption.

Driving at 65 mph gives the car accelerating from 45mph to 65mph a specific window of time/space to merge into traffic.

Driving at 80 mph reduces the amount of time/space that 45mph entry can take before causing disruption (braking).

Knowing that cars will need to accelerate onto the highway, the best solution is to moderate the speed of the traffic on the highway so that these merging conditions don't inherently create the disruption (this is why we have on-ramps and merging lanes when possible.)

Driving too fast closes the window and increases the chance and amount of disruption.

When on the road, try to maintain a safe and steady distance between you and the driver ahead of you. Suddenly speeding up -- only to slow down again -- causes drivers behind you to do the same thing, eventually resulting in a congestion wave (and road rage!).

In an article titled "Vision of Congestion-Free Road Traffic and Cooperating Objects," Ricardo Morla proposes we think of cars occupying virtual slots. Each virtual slot takes up a real space that travels at a specific, continuous speed down the road. As cars approach one another, drivers must adjust the speed of their cars so that the virtual slots don't overlap. Morla admits that this system fails whenever more cars enter a highway than the virtual slots can accommodate. Still, by keeping a safe distance between you and other vehicles, you can help minimize congestion [source: Morla].

Just from How Stuff Works.. There are better sources out there, but the idea is the same.

Check this out:
http://www.embedded-wisents.org/comp.../pdf/morla.pdf

[PsyberVW]

I think traffic lights are more of a problem than accidents because accidents are not something you can really control. They happen and should be dealt with as quickly and efficiently as possible but they will likely never go away.

When the subways were smoke bombed and shut down in Montreal an economist said that those shut downs cost about $3-million/hour in lost economic activity. Inefficient road ways are a huge drain on economies. While they're not usually shut down for hours, little delays certainly add up to much larger ones as they compound on top of another.

I have a pro/con list of ideas on this as well.
In the US / North America, we drive according to the lights / traffic control devices. Our drivers are more or less pretty well disciplined to follow these signals - to the point that the majority of them blindly act according to the command of the device. (A green light means go, a red light means stop.) We have "Accidents" here when people don't follow those strict rules and ignore the control device. Our drivers will accelerate on a green light with full expectation that cross traffic will stop for their red light - and when the cross traffic doesn't stop, an "accident" occurs.

By contrast, in areas without any control device, traffic flows in an organic manner. I've crossed intersections with vehicles coming from every direction, changing direction -- but never fully "stopping" -- and have seen minimal "accidents" occur. Why? Because these drivers have no expecations of the traffic control device, no blind trust or commitment.. Each intersection, each vehicle, is anticipated and dealt with as it comes.

Which way is better?
I don't know! I like the relative peacefulness that driving according to traffic lights affords us. On the other hand, not having that luxury requires you be more attentive and agile in your driving. Crazy as it looks and sounds - I think that makes a "better" driver.

Also look at those videos and studies where stop lights are replaced with circles and round abouts. Congestion in the area is always reduced.

I definitely think coming to a complete stop is counter-efficient, and we should look for models which safely allow us to keep moving.

[x_GTI_x]

This. Drive a stick. Now drive it correctly, in traffic. You rarely ever come to a complete stop if you're doing it right.

^this x infinite!

i thinki this to myself every day i sit in traffic on my commute... what would all these brake-pumping idiots do if they actually had to DRIVE the car.

Its so stupid to watch, and they just rinse and repeat every 15 feet!!!!

/end rant.

[PsyberVW]

^this x infinite!

i thinki this to myself every day i sit in traffic on my commute... what would all these brake-pumping idiots do if they actually had to DRIVE the car.

Its so stupid to watch, and they just rinse and repeat every 15 feet!!!!

/end rant.

You can drive an automatic and still not play disco inferno with the brake lights -- it just means don't stomp the accelerator everytime the car ahead of you farts.

[x_GTI_x]

You can drive an automatic and still not play disco inferno with the brake lights -- it just means don't stomp the accelerator everytime the car ahead of you farts.

I like the terminology going on here.

And believe me, i know about not pumping the brakes in an auto, i just dont understand why they cant comprhend it... its actually LESS effort and wear and tear on their cars.

As long as im not on a hill, ill just stick behind a big rig til it clears up, atleast those dudes get it.

although it is funny scaring the piss out of the car behind you crawling in 1st or 2nd and not touching the brakes.

edit: ive also noticed if i can get in with a couple other manuals stuck in traffic, the flow moves better in that lane because of the lack of brake lights, I avoid using the brakes as much as possible n hopes of not messing with the overall pace of traffic.

[masa8888]

So, this got me thinking. What is the true cost of this delay? For me personally, it took 45 minutes out of my morning meeting. Multiply "X" minutes wasted for the hundreds and hundreds of people slowed heavily by this accident this morning, and somewhere, a large some of money has to pop out the other end.

The loss of productivity is zero. For TCLers, the extra traffic time just cuts into web surfing time

[coderedcomputing]

By contrast, in areas without any control device, traffic flows in an organic manner. I've crossed intersections with vehicles coming from every direction, changing direction -- but never fully "stopping" -- and have seen minimal "accidents" occur. Why? Because these drivers have no expecations of the traffic control device, no blind trust or commitment.. Each intersection, each vehicle, is anticipated and dealt with as it comes.

Heard about this on a talk radio somewhere, google did well to find it, but to prove your point further:

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...ed-spaces/116/

[Hufeisen]

I would love a stupid tax! I admit I would have received 2 of them over my years of driving, but to face an additional fine on top of my insurance increasing would make a difference. I have only seen 1 ticket given in the accidents where I have been hit by the other person.

[j31izzle]

Fixed that for you. If people would just merge at the speed of traffic, if people actually drove in traffic lanes the way they were designed (right = at speed limit, left = passing), and if people yielded to faster traffic behind them (by speeding up and moving right), then traffic would be negated.

WRONG on almost all accounts, if we're talking about traffic. What you're describing is the precedent for rubber-necking. Driving slow (and not fast, which will result in eventual braking and stopping) and with the flow of traffic (depending on the density of traffic of course) will eliminate this rubber-necking phenomenon which causes a ripple effect tens and hundreds of car lenghts at times. People yielding to others means that someone is either driving too slow or someone is driving too fast. In Murica, nobody drives too slow (unless some idiot drives 60 in the left-most lane in the 70mph zone). I always laugh at those idiots who gun it for like 30 feet before stomping on the brakes. Ahh the ironical joys at sitting in traffic 2.5hrs a day.

[Waarp]

I also think about the same metrics when thinking about really poorly timed traffic lights.

I saw an article on this on Yahoo and they basically said nothing will be done about it cause its too expensive to remedy. Great.

[PsyberVW]

I saw an article on this on Yahoo and they basically said nothing will be done about it cause its too expensive to remedy. Great.

Save a penny - lose a dollar!

I hate this mentality

[Glumrug]

I've seen police and fire trucks blocking crazy amounts of extra space for minor collisions. It's aggravating as hell to see a fire engine crossed over 2 lanes an addition to the one involved.
There are laws on the books requiring you to slow down or move over for emergency vehicles if you're adjacent. I think those lanes trying to shift over end up bogging them all down.

Sadly they have to because some of your fellow drivers aren't so considerate. People will go around arrow boards/vehicles with beacons on into lanes with people working in them if they can. They will even run over cones and barrels to do it, and drive over the curbs if they have a truck. Or you'll have multiple stopped/slow moving vehicles, with lights on, and they will try to "get over" between them. Then they act like your the ******* because they can't get back into traffic.

Alot of times you'll notice vehicles used simply as road blocks in case someone does do something stupid. Better they total a vehicle than kill a couple people. Especially when your one of those people!

If you want to blame someone blame the drivers who don't get off the road after a minor accident.

[Geechie_Suede]

So, you must know about the great East Beltline "cut across 4 lanes and try not to die merge" then?

Many a butt-puckering moment in this genius spot...you've got two left lanes that have cars that are trying to exit into one lane, and then you have that one exit lane and the straight lane with people trying to get the hell out of it and into the left lanes.

I use this every morning. I'd like to meet the person that thought this was a good idea.

Speaking of the East Beltline, I always loved how perfectly timed all the lights are, from Leonard/Celebration Cinema area all the way down to 28th Street. At night, you can even see when the cross streets are about to turn red and keep your speed up right before the Beltline lights turn green.

I do this. I live on Leonard and most of my friends/family live in the Kentwood/GR area, so I try to time the lights going North up E. Beltline.

You wanna see a crazy intersection? Come to Northern VA some time and try driving thru Seven Corners, your head is guaranteed to explode. I still haven't figured it out.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Corners,_Virginia

This + most Mi drivers = death

[dcmix5]

If you live on Leonard, you aren't far from me. I live over by Union high.