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    Thread: CPU Tuning

    1. Member Derek's Avatar
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      09-04-2012 09:49 PM #36
      A supercharger would be great, but I'm guessing it's going to cost a bit more than $450. I'm still waiting for estimates for power gains and/or a more comprehensive write up... Jeff? Devin? Anyone??
      2006 Passat V6 4Motion
      United Gray, Black Leather, Sport Pkg 2, Dynaudio-600W, paddle shifters, 18" Matte Black Samarkands, Hi Def rear lip, K&N, Magnaflow center muffler - deleted rears, 4" Magnaflow tips, H&R Sport Springs, Plasti-dipped grille & trunk panel, LEDs.

    2. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      09-05-2012 12:39 AM #37
      Alright alright, you're like an impatient child

      Here is my "input" on the 3.6 tune so far. Keep in mind, anyone who hasn't been following my previous posts - my car has the single stage manifold, and this has been accounted for in my tune. Other's who have the silver/dual stage mani, will be getting a different tune, which will have better low end and slightly less top end. But overall, most likely a better setup depending on taste.

      That being said:

      Pros-
      1) exhaust note has become deeper, and smoother.
      2) power is more linear, predictable, and smooth
      3) Upper rpms have power, the higher it goes, the better the power gets
      4) the car "feels" faster - no doubt about it. No official measurements yet, but there IS a difference
      5) less lag b/w shifts. Not to be mistaken as a transmission edit - but a powerband characteristic. meaning, when accelerating through gears, the torque and power dont seem to fall in and out. its just there until you let off
      6) i have noticed excellent gas mileage at crusing speeds. Since getting the software I have been driving like an a-hole, and experienced the same, if not slightly better mpg on a per tank basis (20-21 for me) i have a 14mi daily commute, mostly stop and go, with quick runs to grab lunch. not bad at all for the driving style.
      7) again, the sound and linearity of the powerband WON me over.
      8) Price - for $450, it is a great price for a tune that has been TUNED, not just made. there is no false TPS adaptation that I can detect. (I was afraid of this) nothing to trick you into thinking its faster when it really isnt.

      Cons- (few)
      1) idle has been slightly raised, and tends to feel a little less smooth when stopped. It just feels unatural, but does not worry me by anymeans. simply an observation. subtle blips and idle dips are more noticeable at a higher rpm idle (750-800)
      2) with the auto/tip trans. The file doesnt seem to be the best spouse. In "D" mode I feel like the car is always one gear too high to enjoy the power. This is probably because the file was made on a 6spd swapped car, and it also doesnt help that its a more topend oriented file. That being said, if you drive the car in Sport mode or TIP mode, it feels incredible. The driving dynamic changes greatly, whereas on stock software nothing seemed to be different b/w transmission modes. There isnt more powert in Sport mode- dont read me wrong, but it is easier to accelerate when you dont have to wait for the trans to figure it out. Getting it to downshift and accelerate just seems to require a bit more pedal effort.
      3) related to #2 above, in d mode or normal driving, you have you have to really get the pedal down to initiate the power, once its on, its ON and there is no disappointment in how well she turns, but there is a bit of "think" time.


      Those are the basics. I wish i had more seat time, a track time, or hp #'s. But I am a very "in tune" person to my car, and I can pick up on differences. I do not regret the tune purchase. I am not affiliated with UM in any way. For the record, my supporting mods are an AFE dryflow drop in filter and a removed suitcase. Otherwise the car is stock. It feels like a different car, more powerful, more able, and so much smoother. I never feel like I am in a 3900lb wagon, and there has been minimal change in offf the line power. If I hammer it from a dead stop, the tires bark up front, haldex takes over and off we go. Upper rpms scream, and pull much harder than before. Most of the power difference is noticed after about 3500rpm. Driving in sport mode is incredibly satisfying.

      Derek (and others) I hope this helps in getting you some input. I have been paying attn to the car in the past few weeks in anticipation of this post. If you have any other questions, lmk.

      My plans will be to acquire the dual manifold and work on customizing my exhaust a little more. I plan on deleting the precats to free up some flow after the manifolds (like an r32/r36) and keeping the secondaries. I also want to straighten out some kinks bends found in the stock 3.6 downpipes, bends and piping.

      -Dev
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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    3. Member Derek's Avatar
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      09-05-2012 02:11 PM #38
      Yes! My impatience has finally paid off!

      Thank you VERY much for the write-up, Devin. It sounds like this will be a great option for me. Now, if I can only get m care back. My ABS controller went out last week and my car's been at the shop waiting for the part since Friday. I think I'll drive directly to the UM dealer once I pick it up. Between the tune and my newly installed H&R sport springs, I'll be a happy camper!
      2006 Passat V6 4Motion
      United Gray, Black Leather, Sport Pkg 2, Dynaudio-600W, paddle shifters, 18" Matte Black Samarkands, Hi Def rear lip, K&N, Magnaflow center muffler - deleted rears, 4" Magnaflow tips, H&R Sport Springs, Plasti-dipped grille & trunk panel, LEDs.

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      09-05-2012 10:57 PM #39
      This is the most thorough write up I've seen on a 3.6 tune!
      Also good to hear of possible cons vs just the pros.
      Thanks for taking the time!
      Last edited by Incrementalg; 09-05-2012 at 10:59 PM.

    5. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 10:15 AM #40
      I was tired of people staing things like " yeah it feels faster" WHAT DO YOU MEAN.

      I didnt want to be that guy, so I let myself get used to the car and evaluate it as much as possible.
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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    6. Global CSI Moderator nater's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 06:51 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by DBVeeDB View Post
      I was tired of people staing things like " yeah it feels faster" WHAT DO YOU MEAN.

      I didnt want to be that guy, so I let myself get used to the car and evaluate it as much as possible.
      Hell, my car "feels faster" on cold mornings.

    7. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 07:20 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by nater View Post
      Hell, my car "feels faster" on cold mornings.
      haha! that it does. Must mean you have a factory freak then
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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    8. Global CSI Moderator nater's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 07:25 PM #43
      Calls this a factory dud.

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      09-26-2012 09:53 PM #44
      For what it's worth APR says they're gonna announce the release of a tune for the 3.6 probably next week. Ad another tune to the discussion soon. I'll be interested to see if APR posts any dyno results.

    10. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      09-27-2012 07:44 PM #45
      interesting...

      I feel like this motor has been kindof ingnored for the past few years, and all of a sudden it seems to be taking off in popularity. Im glad I already have mine
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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    11. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      10-11-2012 12:41 PM #46
      UPDATE:

      Took my wagon (now with the UM tune) to the track last night. Results are less than desired.

      Before, I ran a 14.5 @ 96, with a 2.1 60ft. Little less than 1/2 tank of gas, 93 oct, nothing but a drop in AFE filter and removed suitcase muffler. So essentially, stock. 70 degrees or so. Managed to get multiple 14.5's, so it was not a fluke run by any means.

      Last night: BEST run of 14.677 @ 94, with a 2.2 60ft. A few 14.7's, and 2 14.8's. all at 94 or 93 mph trap. Less than 1/4 tank, no new mods other than the chip, and it was 38 degrees. All runs were made in the same lanes, at the same track. So no weird variables here. Everything about last night "should" have made for a better run...

      I have not concluded yet that the chip has made the car slower... As I stated in my review, the overall drive ability is definitely better. I need to really break down the data from the 14.5 run and compare it last nights. The car feels faster in everyday driving, it really does, but the numbers don't lie. The 60ft was consistency 2.2 last night, so a tad slower/laggy, and the et and trap speeds were both down. Implying that car has not gained in either department with the new UM tune. (again, im saying "implying") I am not trying to stir the pot here. I definitely want to discuss these results with Jeff. I went into this expecting some definitive gain, not just a seat in the pants feel. I just fear it may all be placebo after last nights results. ET+60ft, and trap were all less than last time, not only that but I couldn't even MATCH my stock run, let alone beat it.

      Just wanted to update it here, so anyone considering the UM tune for a 3.6, has more knowledge to work with.
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
      :: B6 3.6 4MO Passat Wagon ::
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      10-11-2012 04:07 PM #47
      That's an interesting finding. There was an S6 owner (Boston S6 either on Fourtitude or Audiworld) who got a unitronic flash for his naturally aspirated S6. He said it felt good in most situations, but when he pushed it to the higher end RPM it didn't feel as strong. He had before dyno graphs, so he dynoed after the tune and found his car actually lost power.
      His dyno results showed a shift in the power band and overall loss in power vs gain. His guess was the shift in powerband gave the impression of a faster car for everyday driving.

    13. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      10-11-2012 07:00 PM #48
      yeah, that seems to be the case with a majoirty of off the shelf 4.2 tunes. I sincerely hope that what UM has given me and the 3.6L car the file was made from.... is something other than what you've mentioned.
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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    14. Member Derek's Avatar
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      10-11-2012 07:50 PM #49
      Thanks for the update, Devin. Things like this are why I ask tuners for before and after dynos. I anxiously await Jeff's response to this.
      2006 Passat V6 4Motion
      United Gray, Black Leather, Sport Pkg 2, Dynaudio-600W, paddle shifters, 18" Matte Black Samarkands, Hi Def rear lip, K&N, Magnaflow center muffler - deleted rears, 4" Magnaflow tips, H&R Sport Springs, Plasti-dipped grille & trunk panel, LEDs.

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      10-13-2012 08:01 AM #50
      Could the 32 degree difference in outside temp be the reason for the difference in the times?

      What's the optimal outside temp range for a naturally aspirated engine? I swear mine feels best in the 60s, but that's subjective. Driving mine last night with temps in the 40s and it didn't feel at its best...again subjective.

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      10-14-2012 12:01 AM #51
      Duplicate post
      Last edited by Incrementalg; 10-14-2012 at 12:08 AM.

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      10-14-2012 12:07 AM #52
      Doing a little reading and a lot of people say that tunes to na engines give an illusion of more power and quicker acceleration by increasing the throttle response. Not just vag owners but others as well.

      I'm starting to buy this line of thought. For me, eliminating the throttle lag and sudden tip in that my 07 has might still be enough to warrant a tune. I'm now more tempted to go with a Revo tune during the next sale. The sale price on the Revo is usually $299 which makes it the least expensive of the tunes. There's also a Revo dealer very close to me.

      No rush, so I'm gonna see what APR comes up with. Last word from them was they were looking for a B6 for testing. Btw Arin at apr promises dyno sheets when it's ready.

    18. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      10-15-2012 08:35 AM #53
      I am not sure about optimum temperature for this car. I just know that generally, no matter what car I am driving, the colder the air is the better the performance. More oxygen in the air when its cold. Also I remember reading that air can never be "too cold" for an engine. But not sure what kind of diminishing return there is in a NA application, and I'm not gonna pretend to know/ be an armchair engineer here. I do know what you mean about the 60-70degree range feeling the best. Maybe its just because that temperature is best for humans, and it makes us feel good

      I don't think that Jeff has done the ol' throttle positioning trick on me, the car is definitely different throughout the rpm range, I just don't think peak power has really increased a lot. Highway passing, general drive ability, and the linearity of the power is very nice, and as of now I do NOT regret my purchase. But having a better track time would've really made my happier about the purchase overall.
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
      :: B6 3.6 4MO Passat Wagon ::
      OEM PASSAT Wheels FS (Set of 5)

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      10-15-2012 11:41 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by DBVeeDB View Post
      I am not sure about optimum temperature for this car. I just know that generally, no matter what car I am driving, the colder the air is the better the performance. More oxygen in the air when its cold. Also I remember reading that air can never be "too cold" for an engine. But not sure what kind of diminishing return there is in a NA application, and I'm not gonna pretend to know/ be an armchair engineer here. I do know what you mean about the 60-70degree range feeling the best. Maybe its just because that temperature is best for humans, and it makes us feel good

      I don't think that Jeff has done the ol' throttle positioning trick on me, the car is definitely different throughout the rpm range, I just don't think peak power has really increased a lot. Highway passing, general drive ability, and the linearity of the power is very nice, and as of now I do NOT regret my purchase. But having a better track time would've really made my happier about the purchase overall.
      I hear ya on all fronts. I didn't mean to imply that Jeff or any of the tuners have tried to get on over on us. I think the throttle adjustments may just be the aspect of the 3.6 tuning that driver's feel most. I mean would we feel a 20hp 20lb increase with such a power sapping tranny and drive train for those who own 4 mo?

      I'd love to get some dyno info for each of the tunes. When I spoke with one of the Uni dealers a while back, they offered to do before and after dyno runs, but it's something I'd have to pay for. (understandable) They also advised there wouldn't be time to drive the car between pre flash and post flash tune to allow for complete adaptation. While it'd be great to get the dyno stuff, I would'nt want to do it without allowing the car to adapt.

    20. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      10-23-2012 12:02 PM #55
      http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...fsi_med17.html

      looks like its only getting offered for 2012+ models, as BLV and BWS motor codes aren't on that list. Cars with med17 ecu's can take advantage of this file, but I think the pre 2012's run a different ecu?

      either way, they have given dynos. and a 100oct file. better evidence that others at this point. Gains arent too crazy though, especially for 600$
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
      :: B6 3.6 4MO Passat Wagon ::
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      10-23-2012 08:10 PM #56
      Arin at APR says they're working on the older 3.6 ecu now and will have a tune available soon.

    22. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      10-23-2012 09:16 PM #57
      sounds good, ill be watching
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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      10-23-2012 09:56 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by DBVeeDB View Post
      http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...fsi_med17.html

      looks like its only getting offered for 2012+ models, as BLV and BWS motor codes aren't on that list. Cars with med17 ecu's can take advantage of this file, but I think the pre 2012's run a different ecu?

      either way, they have given dynos. and a 100oct file. better evidence that others at this point. Gains arent too crazy though, especially for 600$
      Ouch...I didn't even notice the $600 price tag. I wonder if the folks over at Unitronic will take notice of the info posted by APR and finally post a dyno??

    24. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      10-24-2012 09:03 AM #59
      if they didnt even respond to my email about the same topic, or my shop who is one of their dealers.... probably not
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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      12-05-2012 08:52 AM #60
      im still in the process of writing my own tune for my 3.6 swap. I have defined the main maps and values to be tuned and adjusted. Im not sure if im going to go turbo right off the bat or start n/a then turbo after driving the car with the 3.6 swap. So... that being said if i do write an n/a tune i will dyno both and share with the community my tune as well. I can understand some of the bigger tuners may not get as personal with the tunes as say a fellow enthuast would. Im really getting excited about the progress i've made with the 3.6 MED9 file that i have which is the neglected BWS BLV type file. I'll keep posting in here with updates as i get closer to completion of my swap and finally remapping for either N/A or Turbo. If anyone has and questions IM me or post here. I would like to hear more about the UM tune and those track numbers, i suppose the temp difference could do it but i was under the impression colder = better more dense charge.
      ME7 MK4 1.8T/VR6 IMMOBILIZER DEFEATS available, NJ local, IM for details or call 908 303 7937
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    26. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      12-06-2012 07:35 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by vwmaniac16vr6 View Post
      im still in the process of writing my own tune for my 3.6 swap. I have defined the main maps and values to be tuned and adjusted. Im not sure if im going to go turbo right off the bat or start n/a then turbo after driving the car with the 3.6 swap. So... that being said if i do write an n/a tune i will dyno both and share with the community my tune as well. I can understand some of the bigger tuners may not get as personal with the tunes as say a fellow enthuast would. Im really getting excited about the progress i've made with the 3.6 MED9 file that i have which is the neglected BWS BLV type file. I'll keep posting in here with updates as i get closer to completion of my swap and finally remapping for either N/A or Turbo. If anyone has and questions IM me or post here. I would like to hear more about the UM tune and those track numbers, i suppose the temp difference could do it but i was under the impression colder = better more dense charge.

      Awesome, be sure to keep us posted. I still need to grab my old slips (they got lost osmewhere in my move) and analyze the results. Just short on time at the moment.

      But yes, def keep usposted with what type of gains and changes you end up making and the other specs on your setups. Even if a 3.6 tops out at 300hp... its still a fantastic NA motor, that sounds incredible and pulls all the way through the range. I still love this car every time I step on the gas . I can only imagine how awesome it would feel in something ligther
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
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      OEM PASSAT Wheels FS (Set of 5)

    27. Member DBVeeDB's Avatar
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      01-10-2014 04:35 PM #62
      Bringing this one back from the dead. Debated making a new thread, but this one has some good info already.

      First off Thanks to Jeff @ UM and Luis for helping me get this tune. I had a somewhat specific scenario and the turnaround time was only about a week.

      I previously had a UM file for the 3.6 - coupled with my OEM intake manifold (single stage design). Two weeks ago I installed the 06-07 dual stage manifold under instruction from both Jesse and Jeff, as well as logic. The dual-runner OEM manifold has proven to provide better low-end torque for the VR6 engine using a different reflection point for sound waves to align with incoming air. The 3.6 I believe uses this additional torque port from 1000-4000 rpm, according to the SSP from VW. I am not sure if the UM tune uses an identical range.

      As of 1/8/13, couple days before this post. I have been flashed over to the UM dual-runner software. This is the more common file for a majority of 3.6 engines. Unfortunately, no dynos or track times yet. But in the spring I will return to the track to get some data. My anticipation is not much of an overall gain in 1/4 times, but that being said - the car finally feels how I wanted it to feel.

      This file was derived from the 3.6 swapped mkv r32, and it shows. Throttle response has increased substantially. and initial power output is more noticeable than my previous setup. No other mods were done at this time. just the manifold and the tune. Engine/exhaust sound has changed once again. The car sounds a lot more unleashed now - cleaner. jumping off the line, or even hitting it from a cruising speed is GREAT. There is almost no wait at all. If the tune only altered the throttle response and nothing more, it would still be worth it. But It certainly feels like there was a gain in power and torque regardless. The change was immediately noticeable in all types of driving. Dead stop WOT, kickdown punch, highway passing, light throttle, medium throttle, cruising in one gear. My confidence in accelerating has grown and the enjoyment level of this car. everything under 5k rpm feels like a different car, and it has a certain animal vibe to it. I have owned chipped turbo cars in the past, and the change is similar. This car feels like it is no longer being held back. I will update this thread again in the upcoming weeks, and after another track visit in the spring. Until then - I know I will be happy driving this car and the manifold swap has proven to be worth it.

      Thanks for reading, and feel free to ask any questions 0 hopefully I can answer.

      Thanks again to UM
      -Devin :: Bt/shaved bay Jetta, never running:: PART OUT THREAD
      :: B6 3.6 4MO Passat Wagon ::
      OEM PASSAT Wheels FS (Set of 5)

    28. Semi-n00b
      Join Date
      Dec 30th, 2013
      Posts
      10
      Vehicles
      92 GTI VR6, 91 Jetta
      02-22-2014 04:37 AM #63
      Let's build a mk2 36, why not. Any attempts?

    29. Member Soundwave_vr6's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 30th, 2007
      Location
      Ontario
      Posts
      6,640
      Vehicles
      3.6 4mo
      04-07-2014 02:11 PM #64
      bump

      thinking about going apr. does anyone know anyone with it? tried looking for reviews and couldn't find anything.



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