Oil Refinery in California goes boom... more at 11

[tragik]

I don't want to say conspiracy.

But conspiracy.

[ValveCoverGasket]

Makes you wonder what would happen if the west coast was hit by a very powerful earthquake. This is a wake up call.

good call, i dont think san fran has been hit by a major earthquake in modern times.


oh... wait...

[ValveCoverGasket]

Oh wait, that was over 20 years ago.

waay before there was a refinery.

oh... wait...

[ValveCoverGasket]

Why do I seem to attract all these alpha-wannabe morons whenever I post something?

says the guy who was completely ignorant of west coast earthquake activity...
yup. im the moron.

[ValveCoverGasket]

What was my original post? It had nothing to do with what happened in the past.

correct, only because of your ignorance concerning the past

Makes you wonder what would happen if the west coast was hit by a very powerful earthquake. This is a wake up call.

anyway, as you were... head buried deep

[TheDarkEnergist]

Yum. Crob is here, tellin people they're idiots!

[Tornado2dr]

Recent? Really? How much has technology advanced in 30 years, how many countries have changed governments or names? You really believe 23 years in the past is recent? I guess so if you've lived in a bubble all your life.

In terms of infrastructure? Utilities, Road Building, Communications....not much. Fiber cable is put in the ground the same way copper was. Building construction is different, sure, we put more stuff on absorbent systems for the shaking, and buildings are a bit different...

but: Concrete, Steel, Rock, Asphalt, Plastics. That's what we use. My equipment is stronger, more efficient, and cleaner, but we still build stuff in mostly the same way.

What's significantly different, oh wise one...do tell.

[TheDarkEnergist]

It's a first for me on these boards, but after being inundated with stupid posts

I wouldn't be so quick to label people that disagree with you as stupid.

you start actually believing that you're one of the smart ones.

Truly one of the funniest things I've ever seen written on this forum.

[BluMagic]

The west coast has benefited, engineering wise, from the LA earthquakes. The 5.4 in 08 barely did a thing.

there was just a 4.5 200 mi SE of Sacramento yesterday.... NBD

[TheDarkEnergist]

Disagreeing with facts? How can you disagree that infrastructure is old in this country? Look at NYC since it's local to you. But look up when the last refinery was built in the USA, and tell me that refineries aren't getting old in this country.

Hi, My name is TheDarkEnergist.

I have argued with you before. It gets neither of us anywhere.

Sincerely,

TheDarkEnergist

[Tornado2dr]

You're the one that made it into a debate about what is the modern era. I could really care less what you know about road building, because that was never my point in the first place.

Really?

In the modern era, where the infrastructure is old and overloaded?

What else do you consider infrastructure, beyond the roads and utilities you use daily, that would be old and overloaded?

Utilities and Roads go hand in hand. It's a waste to build one without the other - we've known that for eons.

[rich!]

The refinery, which processes about 245,000 barrels of oil a day, is the second-largest facility in the state. Chevron initially reported a fire at the facility late Monday. Tom Kloza of the Oil Price Information Service said wholesale gasoline prices are up as much as 31 cents in the San Francisco Bay area and as much as 26 cents a gallon in Los Angeles. "All of these increases have occurred today and it puts $4 a gallon retail gasoline back in play for a large portion of the state," he said.

[Tornado2dr]

Yeah because what I'm really worried about are roads blowing up into huge fireballs on the west coast.

When your water/sewage/power/phone/gas stops getting delivered...you might change your tune.

Done.

@rich - OOOF. That blows.

[valfaw]

Yeah because what I'm really worried about are roads blowing up into huge fireballs on the west coast.

fireballs no, but I imagine this sucked for a more than a few people in the modern era since they weren't exactly driving horse and buggies...







that and considering the refinery was operational 110 years ago last month refining 10,000 barrels a day in 1902 my guess it has seen it's fair share of earthquakes over the intervening years.

[Egilbe]

fireballs no, but I imagine this sucked for a more than a few people in the modern era since they weren't exactly driving horse and buggies...







that and considering the refinery was operational 110 years ago last month refining 10,000 barrels a day in 1902 my guess it has seen it's fair share of earthquakes over the intervening years.

That sucked when the earthquake hit and interrupted the World Series. I got drunk regardless, but I didn't have a brand new overpass land on my hood

[valfaw]

That sucked when the earthquake hit and interrupted the World Series. I got drunk regardless, but I didn't have a brand new overpass land on my head

FTFY

Inconvenienced those at the time, yes. But not as devastating as the effects Japan witnessed last year in "recent times." You know, having a true modern oil refinery blowing up, along with a nuclear power plant.

so the dead were inconvenienced?

[Tornado2dr]

Oh now you're worried about the worst case scenario. Instead of acting like everything is all roses and perfect and everything in the USA is infallible. Gee what made you change your tune?

You're silly.

All of the things I mentioned happened in '89. You "wondered", originally, what would happen with a big earthquake on the west coast in the modern era.

I provided you with the perfect example.

[Tornado2dr]

FTFY



so the dead were inconvenienced?

Quite.

[mad8vskillz]

question: how toxic is that plume of smoke? like chernobyl bad, or just hundreds of diesel trucks running bad?

[TheDarkEnergist]

And you're ignorant. I provided rebuttals disproving your own definition of what you think is the modern era. If you want to believe you're correct in thinking that a 6.9 magnitude earthquake that happened 23 years ago was recent, and just as powerful as the one that just happened in Japan, go ahead keep living in that bubble.

Crob. Call your nearest geologist and ask them what 23 years looks like on a geological time scale. Wait for laughter. Report findings here.

[Jason4]

You really are dense... look up any definition for modern era.

I'll make it easy, this is the first thing that came up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_era
I didn't see anything about a change in oil refinery building codes in the last 30 days covered in that entry but I might have missed it, I skimmed it pretty quickly.

I don't want to say conspiracy.

But conspiracy.

Only for entertainment value am I laughing at this. Otherwise, are you serious?

Oh wait, that was over 20 years ago.

See that link above, it's included in one of the Modern Era definitions that I found, in fact I think that's considered Contemporary.

You're the one that made it into a debate about what is the modern era. I could really care less what you know about road building, because that was never my point in the first place.

Actually I think you're the one that brought up the modern era and infrastructure.

The west coast has benefited, engineering wise, from the LA earthquakes. The 5.4 in 08 barely did a thing.

there was just a 4.5 200 mi SE of Sacramento yesterday.... NBD

Quite living in the past, we're talking about modern here...

fireballs no, but I imagine this sucked for a more than a few people in the modern era since they weren't exactly driving horse and buggies...







that and considering the refinery was operational 110 years ago last month refining 10,000 barrels a day in 1902 my guess it has seen it's fair share of earthquakes over the intervening years.

My mom drove across both of those the morning before the earthquake...

Thanks for digging up the history of the refinery, that was going to be my next stop. If only there had been a major earthquake in the last 110 years then we'd be able to actually test the capabilities of the refinery, none of theis 6.9 pansy stuff.

[TheDarkEnergist]

Yes because things like trees outlive the normal human lifespan, I guess one hundred year old trees were planted in recent times too according to people like you.

Wait. I said to evaluate what 23 years looks like on a geological time scale. And you're talking about trees why?

[BluMagic]

fireballs no, but I imagine this sucked for a more than a few people in the modern era since they weren't exactly driving horse and buggies...



that and considering the refinery was operational 110 years ago last month refining 10,000 barrels a day in 1902 my guess it has seen it's fair share of earthquakes over the intervening years.

if that is true then it survived the big 1906 one. current retrofit engineering would make it even more stable in an earthquake.

also from what I got from news reports Fukushima failed not because of the earthquake. It failed due to the fact that it wasn't built correctly for the size of a possible tsunami. The reactors automatically shut off when the earthquake hit. so to power it the offsite power source was supposed to maintain power. that failed, so generators in the basement kicked on... the basement flooded, killed those... no cooling... melt down.

[mad8vskillz]

And you're ignorant. I provided rebuttals disproving your own definition of what you think is the modern era. If you want to believe you're correct in thinking that a 6.9 magnitude earthquake that happened 23 years ago was recent, and just as powerful as the one that just happened in Japan, go ahead keep living in that bubble.

if I was alive then, it was recent (I was 5). Nothing drastic has changed since then as far as building construction. Probably guessing that that seems like "a long time ago" to you because you're much younger?

[TheDarkEnergist]

Why are you talking about a geological timescale?

Because you are. 23 years is like 10 seconds on a geological time scale. Apparently you like to argue when you don't even know what you're arguing. This is fun!

[Egilbe]

if I was alive then, it was recent (I was 5). Nothing drastic has changed since then as far as building construction. Probably guessing that that seems like "a long time ago" to you because you're much dumber?

FTFY since you guys keep quoting him.

[Robstr]

question: how toxic is that plume of smoke? like chernobyl bad, or just hundreds of diesel trucks running bad?

Mostly the latter. Without knowing exactly what went up it's hard to say. Going with it being more of a fuel upgrading thing it's soot/unburned hydrocarbons, water and CO2 and some nitrogen compounds. Basically very thick exhaust.
Toward the worse end of the scale there's a lot of sulfur and some metal content...so thick exhaust from the 1950s.

If this were a specialty chemicals/polymers/fertilizer operation those unburned hydrocarbons could be very dangerous, but I think that's not the case.

[ValveCoverGasket]

Apparently you like to argue when you don't even know what you're arguing. This is fun!

but it makes for a truly fantastic read

i this thread

[BluMagic]

[Egilbe]

He reminds me so much of Matt D.

[TheDarkEnergist]

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

I beg to differ.

[mad8vskillz]

It is a long time, the USSR fell, Burma, Zaire, and Congo have changed names, USA fell as the world's largest economy, booms and busts have happened... yet an over 100 year old oil refinery is believed to be infallible even though the evidence is smacking everyone right in their faces telling them, that no this ****ing refinery isn't in good shape, and wouldn't hold up to the effects of an earthquake or tsunami like Japan witnessed.

ussr falling (i was there btw), burma, etc. have ZERO to do with building codes.
just because the refinery is 110 years old, doesn't mean the structures are 110 years old (probably more like 40).
As far as the "evidence" (that it's burning) that doesn't make it more or less earthquake-proof. Fire is fire. You don't need an earthquake for a fire.

[mad8vskillz]

Mostly the latter. Without knowing exactly what went up it's hard to say. Going with it being more of a fuel upgrading thing it's soot/unburned hydrocarbons, water and CO2 and some nitrogen compounds. Basically very thick exhaust.
Toward the worse end of the scale there's a lot of sulfur and some metal content...so thick exhaust from the 1950s.

If this were a specialty chemicals/polymers/fertilizer operation those unburned hydrocarbons could be very dangerous, but I think that's not the case.

right on. thanks for the explanation

[Jason4]

It is a long time, the USSR fell, Burma, Zaire, and Congo have changed names, USA fell as the world's largest economy, booms and busts have happened... yet an over 100 year old oil refinery is believed to be infallible even though the evidence is smacking everyone right in their faces telling them, that no this ****ing refinery isn't in good shape, and wouldn't hold up to the effects of an earthquake or tsunami like Japan witnessed.

Countries failed or changed names, the economy cycled, some economic stats are now out of date...big deal. What do any of those have to do with energy infrastructure or construction in the US?

Obviously a 100 year old refinery is not infallible as was proven yesterday. Seeing how this refinery has held up to a major failure is a good indicator of what might happen in another major earthquake. Another good indicator would be how it held up to other major earthquakes, 1989 and 1906. I'm sure there have been more than a couple of updates since then too.

You're point is getting rather dull.

[Tornado2dr]

I beg to differ.

can't

stop


laughing.