New member here! 2004 Phaeton

[IwasHuman]

Just wanted to take a brief minute to introduce myself to the forum. My name is Aaron, and I’m a proud new owner of a 2004 Phaeton! I made the purchase in July, and have been loving every minute that I’ve spent with this car since. It was purchased from a local to me VW dealer, and was previously owned by the owner of that dealership. Needless to say, it has been well maintained, with full service records, and most maintenance done ahead of schedule, including the T-belt/water pump. I feel I got an excellent deal on this one.

A little about me. I’m originally from Texas, and about 5 years ago my wife and I transplanted to the NW. We have an almost 2 year old son now who loves playing with cars already. I’ve always been a car enthusiast, so he’s following right in my footsteps I think. I’ve owned quite a long list, starting with a handed down 1992 Cavelier, to an ’87 4 door Civic, ’87 Celica GT, ’95 240SX, ’96 240SX, ’76 280Z, ’89 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, ’95 Maxima, ’98 S70 T5, ’86 Grand Wagoneer, ’99 BMW 540iT (last to go), ’07 S60R. With the pre-mature departure of the bimmer, I purchased the Phaeton. My wife drives the Volvo, which is the faster or our current lineup, and she lets me know. I’ve always worked on and maintained my own, and usually enjoy it. At a younger age I was always into the tuning side of things, trying to make things faster. Now, I more appreciate having a car with power from the factory, that I don’t need to throw a lot of money at to get it where I want it. With that has come the realization that I don’t need gobs of power to enjoy my drive. Now I’m more into ultra-maintenance. I want everything to work, and at its optimum performance. Soon, I want to carry this over into the detailing world. Just one more way for me to toss an entire weekend to the cars, wash, dry, clay, polish, glaze, seal, wax. Add a couple good micro-brews, what more could I want?

A little about the car. She’s a 2004 LWB V8 with 67k on the clock at purchase, Luna Blue, with Grey interior. Solid rear seating, and all seats with massage/heating/cooling. Premium sound, no PDC or tech package though. The PO dressed it with new running gear, which appears to be A8 wheels, 20 inchers. I think they compliment the car very well. I might opt for something a little less factory looking for all-seasons, and use these for winter tires only in the future. What else can I say? She’s truly an amazing automotive feat. There’s just so much innovation and cool little nuances everywhere you look. The automated vent covers always get a mention from new passengers. All this, and it’s still so understated. That’s what I love most about it I think. Ultra luxury, but you would never notice. It rarely gets a second look. But when it does, and you see the look in their eyes as they realize what they’re looking at, it just makes me feel that much luckier to have landed this gem. Every time I walk out to my car, I just feel like it’s something special. I love this car.

I’m greatly looking forward to many years with her, and with this forum. I’ve already learned a great wealth of information, just browsing through. I’ve always heard great things about the VW community, and now I get to find out first hand. Truly happy to be here.

Aaron

[tomasty]

Hi Aaron,

Warmest welcome from all of us! Welcome to join the club!

By the sound of it, we are probably in the similar age group, my son is 2 and a half now, and I like to do maintenance on my own cars as well. I live a bit of north, I am in Canada.

Glad to share your joy, you reminded me my feeling with my Phaeton when I first got it, it is a truly amazing machine.

One thing I have to remind you is: Do you know if the transmission fluid has ever been changed? VW claim the ATF is filled for life, but the transmission manufacture ZF is saying the other way, and I had my ATF changed about 6 months ago, and I don't even watn to mention what I went through, if you do a search on this forum, including my posts, you will find tons of information.

Best luck and enjoy your Phaeton!

Tomas

[invisiblewave]

That's one smart looking motor!

[IwasHuman]

Thanks for the welcome. Judging by the service records, it has not been done. I had a similar deal with the zf 5hp24 that was in my bimmer. Same trans thats used in the w12 from what i understand. Seems alot of car makers are followi.g this "lifetime" trend. I plan on flushing this year.

So far i havent read many problems with the v8 trans. But better safe than sorry.

[tomasty]

Aaron,

May I asked what happened with your Bimmer's transmission, did it fail due to ATF change or lack of ATF change?

If you havn't heard a lot of problems with the V8 6HP19A, please take a look at below posts and let us know what your thoughts are:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...s-(V8-Phaetons)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...n-(Please-Help!)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ission-shudder

Tomas

[gtferrari]

the 5hp24 i believe this was also used by landrover for the p38 rangerover. a great transmission until it all goes bad. a well maintained unit will reward you. but the neglected ones are the trouble makers that you hear so much about.

when i was studying automotive engineering we would service cars. we would then replace the filters of brand new cars and disect them. the amount of debris and metal/clutch dust they picked up was disgusting. and to think people would go hundreds of thousands of miles with these plugged filters. no wonder their cars had problems.

i found it best with a new car to go two services then have the fluids and filters replaced. this has ensured a great motoring experience for the life of the car.
with a used car, as soon as i get it home before taking the car anywhere else i go through everything. do a full tune up. all filters fluids belts etc.

i am a new member here as i am trying to find a good phaeton near me. there are two in my region as of now. one a ford dealer and one at the vw dealer. both V8 as i wish for a w12. one has the rear bench and the other the center console.

wish me luck.

i wish you a happy and uneventful ownership.

[IwasHuman]

Tomas,

Thanks for providing those links, I hadn't seen those before. I glanced through them briefly. Definitely good to know about the differences in ATF used, and the havoc it can wreak. So is it more or less completely sorted now?

My issue with the 5HP24 was a brief un-locking of the TC at cruising. It only happened after warm up, under steady throttle, above 37 (TC lock up) and under 72 (TC full lock). It basically went like this: cruising at about 50 or so, every few seconds the rpm needle would bounce upwards about 1-200rpms. Then settle back into normal. Most people that rode with me never noticed. I did. I could feel it. I had about 124k on the clock when I decided to take it in for a trans flush. I'm 99% certain that it had never been flushed before I purchased at 117k, due to the whole life time fluid gimmick. So I had it changed with OEM filter and ESSO fluid. Voila, cured. For a couple months. Then it slowly started coming back. Never got quite as bad as it had been before, but it was there.

So I go to the shop and talk to the master tech, very nice knowledgeable guy, and the only person that's ever touched my cars apart from me. Basically if I'm lacking a tool for something. He said that it had come up a couple times before in other 540i's and 740i's, same trans. He said most people never really notice it, and no-one can ever find an answer. He'd hassled BMW in cali and ZF service to find an answer, but no one could come up with anything. Since my flush temporarily cured the problem, he now has a hunch that it could be a leaky seal somewhere in the valve body. I'm not the most versed person on auto transmissions, the one thing my dad would never touch during his mechanic years. So I'm not 100% his thoughts were valid, or what all it entailed. But due to the TSB/buybacks?? on the W12's because of the trans, I kind of live with the notion that the 5HP24 is just a bad egg.

There were quite a few issues with that trans surfacing on the bimmer forums as well, aside from mine. Alot I think, stemmed from people not changing fluids. Comparatively, the trans we have in our V8's don't seem to have THAT many issues. I expect every model will have some isolated occurrences. But there doesn't seem to be one recurring issue that's affecting a good percentage of the V8's on the road. I guess that's what I was getting at with that statement. Sorry to hear it happened to you though.

Aaron

[invisiblewave]

There's a thread somewhere in this forum that I think will answer your flare puzzle. I don't recall who it was, but someone posted a very detailed description of what goes on inside the gearbox, and the rev flaring has been mentioned several times. Try a search on transmission flare change.

[IwasHuman]

I'll go take a look later on today. It's not so much of an issue now that the car's passed on, but it would still be nice to have a decent understanding of it. So far the trans in the Phaeton feels great.

I cleaned out the snow filters before taking a trip through the mountains, from a tip I found here. Just as described, they were pretty dirty. I seemed to have gained about 1mpg. I would just say it's a change in driving style, but the first few weeks of ownership I had the instrument display showing current MPG's, which made me drive much more conservatively. Too much like a game to get the highest score. Since switching that off, I just drive normally, and i'm getting slightly better mpg, so I think it might have helped.

My immediate concern is figuring out how i'm going to lug snowboards up the mountain. Seats don't fold down, ski pass is not wide enough, trunks about 25cm shy of being long enough. And as I found out, LWB had no option for rack mount. Should have looked into it before buying, but I was blinded by beauty. Not that I regret my decision at all anyways. I'm toying around with the idea of designing/machining my own mounts to clamp around the door jamb/roof pillar. I've seen universal kits to do this, but I think the bracketry might be too thick for our tight tolerance doors gaps. I'll have to come up with something really thin, and something that wont damage the finish. Since most kits are designed to haul heavier, more wind resistant loads, and all I'm hauling is a few boards, I might be able to get away with something thinner/weaker. We'll see. If I can't come up with anything, I'll just rack the Volvo and use that. Less miles on my car anyways

[invisiblewave]

Yeah, for such a large car, the trunk space is a bit limited, I struggle occasionally with three sets of golf clubs. Something like a bike rack that fits on the outside of the trunk might be your best bet. For mpg on a run, check out the tripdata screen on the main console! In my case, who's driving the car makes about a 4mpg difference.....

[IwasHuman]

Yeah, I love that trip data screen. Especially the way it gives your three different sets of figures, and automatically detects refuels and shows stats since. Except, I parked on a somewhat steep hill and with the fuel leveled to tilted it must have moved the level sensor up enough to make it think it had been refueled, because it reset halfway through a tank, haha. This car just does so much.

I was in awe when I climbed into the back seat a couple days after buying, and noticed the head rest moved up automatically. Genius!

Quick question if anyone knows...When I unlock the car and open a door, I can hear the air compressor going for a couple seconds. What exactly is it doing? I'm pretty sure i also hear it releasing air when I lock it. The car doesn't appear to be raising/lowering. Is there a reservoir that it empties upon locking, and refills when unlocking?

Aaron

[Zaphh]

If you don't plan to use your rack mount for heavy things, I saw some that stuck to the roof /boot thanks to succion cups... (I don't think the roof is in steel, so magnetic mounts may not work).

However, thinking about it, I wouldn't be that much concerned with weight but with lift created by the boards if you put them in such a way that they create lift.

Here is an example (sorry, it's in French): http://www.comptoirauto.com/porte-ba...-brillant.html

But then, if you have a power boot beware of touching the button if the rack is attached to the boot...

One last solution: trim the boards so that they fit in the boot !

P.

[IwasHuman]

Interesting idea with the suction. The lift does somewhat concern me. Usually if I'm going up with just two boards, then they're face down, so less lift. But any more than that and they have to be stacked with the top boards face up, which probably creates some lift. A wind deflector could help with that perhaps.

I've thought about trunk mounting options. No power trunk for me, unfortunately. That gives me an idea though. I made something to latch onto the trunk, maybe build some small clamps to grip the sides of the trunk lid, and have a bar that spans the width. Then some sort of suction mount that could stick to the rear window, basically a bar with two suction mounts at either end. My board mounts can attach to that. So once the boards are off, the trunk still opens, no problems. Might still have to create a wind deflector. With the boards sitting at an angle, it's sure to catch some wind.

I've been referred to a shop that specializes in racks, so I'm going to see what they might have. If that fails me, I'll start designing something to work. Thanks for pointing me to that.

Aaron

[invisiblewave]

Since you're now a Phaeton owner, you really ought to consider giving up snowboarding anyway. Sell the boards and invest in a nice new tweed jacket with elbow pads instead.

[IwasHuman]

Aaaahahahaha. As long as the golf clubs still fit right? You can't imagine the criticism I got from my friends when I bought a bimmer AND took up golfing. I do feel that I should exit the car with a wood pipe in mouth though.

Anyways, I can't give up boarding yet. I've only been at it three seasons. Since I plan on building another board this year (making a yearly routine out of this), I thought about making it narrower, but I just don't think it would work the same. Maybe if I made a long downhill rocket board, I could go narrow. We just don't get enough pow on most of our mountains to make those long boards much use. I could take up skiing, that would go with the jacket with elbow pads.

The suction cup idea got me curious, and I found this though..

http://www.castlecraft.com/roof_racks.htm

It has a strap to run through the cabin for extra security. That might be what I'm looking for. I also found some suction bike mounts. Might be able to incorporate those into a cross bar system. A bit pricier than the standard cross bars. But what about this car isn't pricey.

[Paximus]

Quick question if anyone knows...When I unlock the car and open a door, I can hear the air compressor going for a couple seconds. What exactly is it doing? I'm pretty sure i also hear it releasing air when I lock it. The car doesn't appear to be raising/lowering. Is there a reservoir that it empties upon locking, and refills when unlocking?

The car self-maintains its stance, so removing the offset weight by getting out will trigger a re-trim, and then it wakes up every 20 mins for a while and re-trims again ready for your return (to admire it properly level, presumably!).

It gets bored and goes to sleep after a while, but it will re-trim after it wakes up on your return.

Chris

[IwasHuman]

Such a thoughtful car, this is.

[tomasty]

I knew the 03 -06 Bimmers 5 series and 7 series owners are having problem with the ZF transmissions in their cars, as while I was investigating the problem of my Phaeton's transmission, BMW forum has lots of useful info. but, still, no firm anwsers.

The problem with my transmission only showed up after the ATF change, I still think the dealler didn't do something right, the problem I still have right now with the trans is when the trans is cold (eg: for the first few kilometers) there is the surging problem, RPM needle jump back and forth, but once the trans reaches operating temp, everything is fine.

Actually the problem with V8 transmission is not a small portion, lots of people on this forum reported similar problem with it, and some have their transmissions replaced under warranty.

I am starting to think this is a design problem of 6HP19A, and trying to live with it.

Tomas

[IwasHuman]

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if most of the other people who had this issue experienced it after fluid changes as well. Then could it be linked to the mixing of fluids? I'm not sure our exact trans was used in any 5 series, but maybe similar design. Seems to be ALOT of people having problems with their ZF "lifetime units these days. The thing I find strange is that it got better once warmed up. Like I've said, not that familiar with all the workings of AT's, but I know the one that changes in trans activity once warmed up to op temp is the TC function. But I thought I read in your thread that it was determined that the TC was unrelated to the issue.

[tomasty]

I don't know, I think most of them had issue before change ATF, and ATF change fixed some of those.

I don't know what the problem is with my trans, might be TC or clutch, or maybe the dealer underfilled it, at least that explained when the temp reaches normal, the ATF expands and reachs the normal line.

[invisiblewave]

Tomas, has your transmission had the blue fluid treatment? There's a VW procedure for clutch slippage that involves running the transmission for 500 miles with a special blue fluid then replacing it with the normal fluid.

[tomasty]

Tomas, has your transmission had the blue fluid treatment? There's a VW procedure for clutch slippage that involves running the transmission for 500 miles with a special blue fluid then replacing it with the normal fluid.

No, they changed it with the normal honey color fluid, that is why I think they have done it wrong.

Tomas

[invisiblewave]

You might want to do some more digging. There's a specific procedure in the dealer documentation to deal with clutch slippage. I know because that's what the tech kept parroting last week when I was trying to explain that it needs a double flush because of the fluid specification change.

[tomasty]

You might want to do some more digging. There's a specific procedure in the dealer documentation to deal with clutch slippage. I know because that's what the tech kept parroting last week when I was trying to explain that it needs a double flush because of the fluid specification change.

I have done the digging long time ago, this procedure was mention in my post on the #3 reply: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...n-(Please-Help!)

I showed that to VW dealer, but they said it doesn't apply to Phaeton. I didn't trust them, but what can I do at that time?

Tomas

[IwasHuman]

I guess that does make sense actually, it's underfilled until temp reaches operating level, then operation is fine. I know filling these sealed boxes takes a bit of science. This blue fluid sounds crazy too. Wonder if it has high detergent properties. Maybe just dump a jug of Tide in and give it a whirl

Based off of these statements I'm realizing I didn't do quite enough digging when looking for common problems. Auto trans, so hit or miss. It's just like with the E39's. Some people had great experiences, and they lasted forever, even running it lifetime. Some had catastrophe, even when doing changes. Then there was the in between. You just couldn't tell. I guess these are a bit of a gamble too. When did you start noticing issues Tomas? How many k's where you at when you purchased, or brand new?

Aaron

[tomasty]

Aaron,

I think we have hijacked your post and made it a transmission technical seminar. LoL

I bought the car used, it had 160K KMs when I got it, it only took about 500 KMs after the ATF change, I started to have problems.

I agree, the auto-trans in cars now days is so complicated, even more then engines, lots of places can re-build engins, but not a whole lot can do transmissions.

Tomas

[IwasHuman]

Hahah, all good. As long as the thread gets good use.

So you were at about 100K miles. I'll have to keep my sensors on for trans problems in the future.

It's really at the point in automotive technology, that the thing I worry about the most is always the transmission. This was never the case with any of my older cars. It seems all the new tech they try to throw at these things make them worse in the end. Well, maybe not worse, but more problematic. I guess that's true with anything though. The more systems involved, the more there is to go wrong. I'm curious to see how the double-clutch auto trans in the volvo keeps up. So far we're at 130k miles, and still going strong. It has had an ATF change though.

[tomasty]

I happen to know something about dual clutch tranmission as well, I know there has been a lot of discussuion on VW's DSG in China recently, tons of VW owners in China complain about DSG shift quality and stability, and worst case, the transmission will cut power and light up all the lights on the dash board. But VW doesn't recongize the problem and deny a recall on DSG, they released a software update to DSG, but things are not getting any better.

Some automotive experts in China did some testing on DSG and think the problem is that the DSG is not desgined for China's low speed stop and go traffic condition, the dual clutch had to be half engaged lots of time and causing over heating, and once the tempreture reachs certain point, the transmission computer will shut down to prevent damage.

I know VW had issued a recall on DSG in North America at one time before, but they won't do the same for the Chinese, Chinese market almost generated more than half of VW's world profit, almost half of Phaeton population are sold to Chinese, but they can't treat their Chinese consumers equally, that is a big shame on VW!

Tomas

[invisiblewave]

I have done the digging long time ago, this procedure was mention in my post on the #3 reply: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...n-(Please-Help!)

I showed that to VW dealer, but they said it doesn't apply to Phaeton. I didn't trust them, but what can I do at that time?

Tomas

Which of the 3000 links in that thread refers to the procedure? I hear you about the dealer, it's the same at the one I was at last week, they just won't listen or read. I don't blame them for being a little skeptical about information from a forum, but that's no excuse for ignoring it out of hand.

[tomasty]

Which of the 3000 links in that thread refers to the procedure? .

This one:

This is an Audi TSB that seems to apply, maybe there is an equivalent VW TSB. Seems the latter of your two reasons is correct.

http://uberlame.com/a6_tsb/Transmiss...2037-06-13.pdf

But that said, I can certainly see how the additive pack in new fluid would be much more active than the depleted pack in the old fluid. Not sure it would be active to the point of removing 'beneficial varnish' or creating debris particles to make the solenoids sticky though.

PS - picture in the link from the OP show it's a ZF 6HP-19

[Paximus]

tons of VW owners in China complain about DSG shift quality and stability

I had a new DSG gearbox (sorry, transmission!) fitted to the A3 under warranty. Nicely finished car but I will never ever get used to the drive-away technique without causing kangaroo-ing. Some drivers can set off smoothly in it, but I can't.

The 45 mpg is great, and the 1.4 supercharged engine pulls really well, but I'd rather pay for the extra fuel burnt driving the torque converter any day.

Chris