"We" can no more "run out of fuel" than "we" did in the days of kerosene, wheat & oats, or whale oil. By the time petro products run low in supply, other forms of energy delivery will become more cost effective, rendering any such efforts moot. That's reality.
Manufacturers then can't build huge gas guzzling vehicles and still hit this number. Small engines are no longer wheezy tractor engines either. My TDI JSW is quicker than an Olds Vista Cruiser with a V8 and I average 40 mpg as opposed to 13.
So yeah. I'm all for higher gas prices. Especially if the taxes go to public transportation, or the direct construction of a new infrastructure that doesn't revolve around personal automotive transport.[/QUOTE]
first off why the hell are you on a car enthusiast forum. im sure we are hippy tree lovers needs more members maybe you should start there. second im sure oil will run out but with scientific predictions being so accurate kind of like the world will come to a end in 2012 and the computer era was supposed to end in 2000. im all for more fuel efficent cars but you should think about the forum i which you post on before you suggest ending personnal auto transportation.
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1989 Jetta GLI (RIP)
2006 jetta TDI (sold)
1992 Jetta GL (current)
Here's the problem with your little theory: CAFE and gas guzzler taxes only try to control the potential for fuel usage, they don't actually control fuel usage. Under CAFE, you punish the dude who lives a mile from work and buys a 6.2L Challenger or H2 Hummer or whatever and goes through a tank of gas every three weeks, but it rewards the dork who buys a Prius or some ****ty "sport"wagon and then commutes 50miles round trip to work. That make any sense at all?
S2000 • TSX
And why is the guy who must travel to work a dork for buying the most efficient vehicle he can find?
I travel 25 miles one way. 50 miles round trip. Move closer to work? My wife works 3 blocks from home and much of the time just walks to work. We gain nothing by moving.
Even though the guy with the Challenger only goes through a tank every three weeks (about the same as me) I'm sure he would prefer paying $40 as opposed to $80 and keeping the difference.
Even in the high CAFE era there will still be a niche market for high performance cars.
Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
That's like increasing property taxes even more so that I can move into a smaller house in the ghetto that I want and can afford.
I don't want a large farva. I want a goddamn liter of cola.
Official Miami Dolphins Thread: Come share in the misery!
I completely agree with a higher gas tax. Right now the CAFE standards will change what companies build but won't change what people prefer to buy. Add the tax, reduce the Federal Income tax to the average amount it adds to yearly budget and the tax will work. With CAFE and cheap gas there is no incentive to change our habits and how much fuel we waste.
Higher fuel changes how far we drive to shop, live from work, public transportation people are willing to take, etc. With cheap gas no one cares.
Currently with cheap fuel, a lot of the hybrids are being sold because they are "green" but the financial incentive isn't there to bother. If I save $500 per year on gas over the similar car but it costs $5000 more to buy, why would I? Gas prices change to make it $1000 a year and suddenly I am interested and car companies will spend more to develop it with the increased market.
I didnt read the whole thread but i think the whole idea of this "forcing us to use less" is non sense. The people that this affects the most are low/middle income barely getting by as it is, and if they are fortunate enough to even own their own vehicle do not have the means to justify wasting fuel to begin with. Drive a scooter? what if you have a family? take public transportation? Not only is this not very cost effective (2.50 per ride here on Long Island, NY), but here the busses run every hour or so if your lucky, so its also not very time effective. Basic living expenses cost enough as it is, you cant just keep inflating the prices on every little thing, and expect the average lower/middle class family to continue to be able to afford it without a substantial pay increase. Capitalism and corporate greed are destroying this country, while the public just stands by and watches. My car gets about 30mpg, for a 22 year old car i think that is pretty efficient, and the price of gas is something have to factor into everything i do.
Last edited by VW_MK_III; 08-12-2012 at 10:19 PM.
And yes, the public will sit by and watch. Nothing will happen until it's too late. And when the poop hits the fan, the poor will STILL be hit hardest at the pump.
But wait...we can avoid this, if we re-arrange our transportation policies and focus on mass transit, alternative transportation (that does NOT mean electric cars) and zoning laws (to increase mixed-use, mid-to-high density development instead of promoting single-use low density suburbia).
Perhaps a gas tax isn't the most fair way to accomplish this. It may help that guy sell small cars, but it probably won't cause the type of culture shift this country will need in order to survive the impending decline in oil production.
Seriously, you need to pick one. Either you want to help the poor, or you want to save the world from global warming. Pick one, not both. Because if you make gas more expensive, yeah, it's going to hit the poor, but it's because the use a lot of gas. Sure, the rich use more per person, but there aren't that many rich.
S2000 • TSX
People on here are soooo stupid. Think about how higher gas prices will eliminate the middle class and force us into poverty.
What's next higher property tax so we live in smaller houses, travel tax so we don't spend money somewhere else, food tax so we don't dine out???
Please think next time before you write stupidity.
"Your pants too tight,your wheels too bright"
"Your pants too tight,your wheels too bright"
There will be incentive to drive less, whether we do anything about it now, or just wait and see. The main point is, we're not making things any easier for the next generation if we don't make major policy changes now.
And if you haven't noticed, the people that usually commute the longer distances to their jobs, are people that are often not able to afford the housing near their place of employment due to property taxes and cost of living. I just searched for houses under $350,000 in my area and found 0 listings. But I just found 215 listings for houses under $200,000, 40 miles away. So your argument of choosing to live closer to your place of employment is invalid. People would choose a shorter commute if they could. The problem is that many cannot afford it.
My "human's are all pieces of selfish ****" sense is telling me that you're a proponent of a 1.00 dollar tax because you can afford it. Let's make it 5 dollars for you.
Pricing commodities outside a certain demographic's ability to pay though is truly Murrican.
Consumption is down quite a bit but yet gas prices are pretty much right where they left off 4 years ago before the crash. Add a $1 tax and the markets are still going to run the price up.
The best thing we could do for the next generation is move towards the idea of not having to use oil for transportation. To say that if we use it all up the future generations are in trouble would be equal to saying 100 years ago that the next generation will be living in the dark if we don't quit killing all the whales.There will be incentive to drive less, whether we do anything about it now, or just wait and see. The main point is, we're not making things any easier for the next generation if we don't make major policy changes now.
I believe fluctuating gas prices gives people hope that gas will be more affordable some day. There shouldn't be that hope. Fluctuating fuel prices is also what has killed alternative energy many times over the past few decades. Those projects spring up and are supported by investors and government grants and tax breaks, but fuel becomes affordable again, or even just attractive to government and investors, all that money dries up and the projects die.