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    Thread: Winning on Sunday sells on Monday, but is this really true?

    1. Member BlkMkVGTi's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 10:33 AM #1
      Interesting daily article from HFL:

      It’s time for the motorcycle industry to have a serious think about its priorities, because they’re looking bizarrely skewed right now. The classic mantra tells us that winning on Sunday sells on Monday, but is this really true, or indeed relevant?

      If ever there was the perfect time to drive up the decimated sales figures of bikes and scooters, this is the time. Fuel is gaspingly expensive and while the price fluctuates it always goes up more than it comes down again, it rises rapidly but falls slowly, traffic congestion is choking our motorways and cities and it’s summer time (no really, it is…), the best time to promote two-wheelers anyway.

      In addition, some new research from Belgium has shown that if 10 per cent of car users took to two wheels, overall journey times for all road users would be down by 40 per cent and overall economy and emissions would be significantly improved too. Everyone benefits from an increase in motorcycle usage, even those in cars, a message which could not be more positive.

      So what is the industry doing. Spending money on marketing all these advantages? Putting right the misconception that two wheels are a dangerous way to travel? My daughter had a knife pulled on her on a daytime train journey near London last week, that wouldn’t have happened if she’d been on a bike. Hers is hardly a rare incident, yet we’re told trains are safe… Door to door, taking all dangers into account, you can often be much safer returning home late at night on a bike or scooter than taking public transport.

      All this is tailor-made for a powerful marketing campaign, yet the motorcycle industry remains resolutely silent about its many powerful advantages.

      The reason? We’re told it’s money, that the industry simply isn’t big enough to market itself in the national press, on TV or on major websites. This is of course a self-fulfilling prophesy: if you’re not selling many bikes, you don’t generate the income for strong marketing to boost those numbers.

      The industry does have the money though, the problem is that it’s spending it – lots of it – in an astonishingly unproductive manner: racing. The classic mantra tells us that winning on Sunday sells on Monday, but is this really true, or indeed relevant?

      Who do we need to be selling two wheelers to? Commuters, utility users, people after secondary transport for their families… many people who have no idea World Superbikes or MotoGP even exists, and certainly a potential customer base with very little interest in motorcycle racing, who will be influenced not a jot by who’s winning at Silverstone, Mugello or Assen.

      Among those of us who know bikes and are enthusiastic about them, readers of Motor Cycle News for example, what kinds of machines are selling well? Adventure bikes, naked machines, all-rounders… none of these are being raced. And the categories in the biggest decline? Superbikes, which are doing very badly, while the supersport 600 class has imploded. Most manufacturers have dramatically slowed or ceased altogether development of 600cc sports bikes, yet while the left hand is doing that, the right hand is still busy pouring money into racing them, or racing to promote them.

      Does winning races even sell bikes in the relevant road bike categories? Maybe it has some influence, but factors which are clearly more important include performance in magazine group tests, value for money, dealer reputation, reliability, comfort… There’s a clear and undisputed correlation between bikes that do well in magazine group tests, especially MCN’s in the UK, and subsequent sales performance, yet there’s none at all between race winning bikes and sales of their related production road versions.

      Racing won’t go away if the major players stop spending, it won’t even get any less exciting. Motorcycling generally though will benefit enormously from a redirection of those very substantial funds into marketing two wheelers properly and effectively. Right now, it looks like nothing more than a very expensive self-indulgence, a luxury at a time when the industry can afford no such thing. There is no alignment between what the industry is trying to sell and where it’s spending its promotional budgets.

      In simple terms, it’s stupid.
      Hmm...thoughts?

    2. Senior Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 11:35 AM #2
      Never really thought this applied much to bikes. Really only the race-rep models, and then probably only to the 18-35 y/o male segment. Or maybe the adventure bike crowd.

      And I don't think it really applies much to cars anymore either. Back when stock car racing had cars that actually looked like, well, stock cars, it seemed to work. Especially since there was a fairly significant rivalry between the various marques. That, and the marketing folks tried to exploit it. I don't really watch much commercial TV, so I don't see many commercials, but how many car ads reference track or racing performance in them?

      I just don't see how Honda's or Suzuki's WSB performance is going to have any impact on someone interested in purchasing a standard or touring bike.

    3. Member Spinnaker's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 02:11 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Racer View Post
      I just don't see how Honda's or Suzuki's WSB performance is going to have any impact on someone interested in purchasing a standard or touring bike.
      This, it isn't outside of the SS crowd. I bought a Honda partly due to their legendary reliability in the car segment.

    4. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 03:42 PM #4
      If this is true, it is what they should be advertising everywhere they can.. magazines, tv commercials, radio.. hell, we as motorcyclists should wear it on the back of our jackets.


      if 10 per cent of car users took to two wheels, overall journey times for all road users would be down by 40 per cent
      -Josh
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      08-11-2012 04:47 PM #5
      I don't necessarily disagree with the article. However, you may as well just say that if people would car pool for commuting, better public transportation systems, etc. there would be fewer cars on the road and lower commute times as well. I'd welcome more people on two wheels and I also think it would help for safety.

    6. 08-11-2012 06:27 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Racer View Post
      Never really thought this applied much to bikes. Really only the race-rep models, and then probably only to the 18-35 y/o male segment. Or maybe the adventure bike crowd.
      50 year old women are not going to buy bikes no matter what the advertising budget is spent on.

      The argument here is how to attract new buyers. Advertising in Better Homes and Garden isn't going to have much impact.

      There really isn't any suggestions in the article. IMO writing something like this doesn't mean much unless you have a better idea and state it.

      I have absolutely no desire to get a sport bike but I still enjoy watching the races. Another thing not noted is the impact motocross has had on getting people interested in bikes. I would say that this has been one of the largest reason bikes were no longer something that only the 1%er rode.

    7. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 06:48 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
      one of the largest reason bikes were no longer something that only the 1%er rode.



      Ummm... what? When were motorcycles ever something only the 1%'ers rode? If anything, motorcycles are on the other end of the scale income wise.


      Oh..and when I took the MSF class, several of the students were women approx 50 years of age.. go figure..
      -Josh
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    8. 08-11-2012 08:39 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      Ummm... what? When were motorcycles ever something only the 1%'ers rode? If anything, motorcycles are on the other end of the scale income wise.
      Sorry and nothing personal as you must be too young to know what a 1%er is.

    9. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 10:22 PM #9
      Almost 39. I guess your 1% is different than the economical 1% that the rest of the country has been talking about.


      - Josh
      -Josh
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    10. 08-11-2012 11:11 PM #10
      This is the motorcycle board.

    11. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 12:16 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
      50 year old women are not going to buy bikes no matter what the advertising budget is spent on.

      The argument here is how to attract new buyers. Advertising in Better Homes and Garden isn't going to have much impact.

      There really isn't any suggestions in the article. IMO writing something like this doesn't mean much unless you have a better idea and state it.

      I have absolutely no desire to get a sport bike but I still enjoy watching the races. Another thing not noted is the impact motocross has had on getting people interested in bikes. I would say that this has been one of the largest reason bikes were no longer something that only the 1%er rode.
      I think the "better advertising" should probably be in the direction of "These aren't just toys, you really can commute/errands/daily these." America seems to have a very set in stone image of motorcycles as something that you buy as a toy. It's not a daily vehicle. It's not an A-B machine. You buy it because you want to go really fast or go cruising on the weekends or go bar hopping. It's considered a luxury item by a huge chunk of the population, so sales are down when luxuries are down but meanwhile normal car sales are still pretty strong.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    12. 08-12-2012 03:26 AM #12
      For most they are and will always be a third vehicle which for many is a luxury. For much of the U.S. thay can only be rode part of the year. They can't haul children. You aren't going to take your mother to her Dr's appt on one.

      Especially the type of bikes the article is complaining about not selling. Sport bikes. I've rode my entire life and I'm not going to spend $11k for a sportbike that I can only ride part of the year. If I want a bike for economy there are far better options also.

      We might be able to convince more people with short commutes that a cheap scooter is a good option for them.

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      08-12-2012 09:06 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
      For most they are and will always be a third vehicle which for many is a luxury. For much of the U.S. thay can only be rode part of the year. They can't haul children. You aren't going to take your mother to her Dr's appt on one.

      Especially the type of bikes the article is complaining about not selling. Sport bikes. I've rode my entire life and I'm not going to spend $11k for a sportbike that I can only ride part of the year. If I want a bike for economy there are far better options also.

      We might be able to convince more people with short commutes that a cheap scooter is a good option for them.
      Yep, those are good points. I think you may be able to overcome some of those arguments for a commuter perspective, but you know that there will still be problems though. For example - "So I can use that to commute and it gets 40mpg (or whatever the bike is rated at)? Great! But what happens when it's cold or when it's raining or when it's really hot outside.......". Most people just don't want to deal with the weather aspect. People used to always ask me those questions. "What happens when it rains or it's hot or cold?" "Well, I get wet, hot, and cold"

    14. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 01:21 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      Yep, those are good points. I think you may be able to overcome some of those arguments for a commuter perspective, but you know that there will still be problems though. For example - "So I can use that to commute and it gets 40mpg (or whatever the bike is rated at)? Great! But what happens when it's cold or when it's raining or when it's really hot outside.......". Most people just don't want to deal with the weather aspect. People used to always ask me those questions. "What happens when it rains or it's hot or cold?" "Well, I get wet, hot, and cold"
      "Hey it's raining out, take the car." "Nah, skin's waterproof and this stuff dries."

      I do have drybags that I pack stuff in if it needs to stay dry, they're cheap and work really well.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    15. Senior Member Mk1Racer's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 09:46 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      Almost 39. I guess your 1% is different than the economical 1% that the rest of the country has been talking about.


      - Josh
      1%er w.r.t. the motorcycle world has a very definitive meaning. And it has nothing to do w/ the economic 1% that you mentioned. I'm surprised Josh, you're almost 39, ride a bike, and don't know what 1%er means in the motorcycle world?

      I'll save you the Google. The moniker goes back to the 60's when the AMA came out saying that only 1% of the motorcycle riders were outlaw bikers. Those guys now wear that moniker as a badge of honor. Today, outlaw bikers (members of MC's like The Pagans, The Outlaws, Hells Angels, etc.) are referred to as 1%ers.

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      08-12-2012 09:51 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      Almost 39. I guess your 1% is different than the economical 1% that the rest of the country has been talking about.


      - Josh
      he is referring to the 1%ers not as economical status, not trying to be arrogant so please dont take it the wrong way, but if you don't know what he means research the history of motorcycling in america. You would prolly be amazed how it started versus how it is nowadays.
      ***from my vortex observations I have come to the conclusion that post count has no direct effect on automotive knowledge, or even common sense for that matter***

    17. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 10:31 PM #17
      Learn something new everyday. Yup, I've been riding bikes since I was a kid. Never boned up on gang life though.


      - Josh
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      08-13-2012 01:08 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      Learn something new everyday. Yup, I've been riding bikes since I was a kid. Never boned up on gang life though.


      - Josh
      No worries...the 1%er thing has been for motorcycles far longer than the economical thing. Although not as "popular" now in most peoples eyes. I am 24 and grew up around bikes and didn't learn about it until college when I started reading a lot about the different outlaw gangs such as Hells Angels and Mongols. Good book called Under and Alone for those interested on a look inside from an ATF agent.

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      08-14-2012 01:34 PM #19
      Racing betters the breed, regardless of what style bike you ride, it was bettered due to the engineering efforts that are placed into winning races. In fact, I'd say more than any other human sport motorsport is actually more beneficial to us, peons. It's not like I'm getting a better basketball through the money thrown into the NBA

      Racing does, for the most part, solidify brand loyalty. Who are you rooting for?

      I'd also imagine race results influence the purchase amateur racers and track day heroes make. Remember, sport bikes are essentially the equivalent of homologated race cars, the winning brands might give you the edge.

      And heck, I dunno, but watching the BMWs quick progression towards the top of WSBK in just a few short years, has made me want one
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      08-15-2012 11:21 PM #20
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      09-06-2012 06:57 PM #21
      OK, when was the last time, the very last time that the first 3 overall manufacturers leading world superbike (be honest, its really the only series that races on Sunday and sells.... on Tuesday -aren't they all closed on Mondays-), were NOT japanese? fantfrakingtastic If that doesn't sell bikes, what does?
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

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      09-10-2012 04:28 PM #22
      Not sure if true... people still buy Ducatis, and even Rossi can't ride 'em
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      09-11-2012 12:12 PM #23
      I'd say no because dealerships in my area are not open on Mondays.

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      09-12-2012 03:52 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
      bikes were no longer something that only the 1%er rode.
      mathematically impossible. the 1%er designation is for 1% of motorcyclists. So if only 1%ers rode motorcycles, they would be called 100%ers
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      09-12-2012 03:54 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      Racing does, for the most part, solidify brand loyalty. Who are you rooting for?

      I'd also imagine race results influence the purchase amateur racers and track day heroes make. Remember, sport bikes are essentially the equivalent of homologated race cars, the winning brands might give you the edge.
      I like yamaha's racing efforts, yet race a honda and street ride a suzuki. am i derp?
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    26. 09-12-2012 04:44 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      mathematically impossible. the 1%er designation is for 1% of motorcyclists. So if only 1%ers rode motorcycles, they would be called 100%ers
      Yes, literally it doesn't make sense. Few rode bikes as a regular mode of transportation though 45+ years ago.

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