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    Thread: Tyrol Subframe Bushing kit - broke something during install

    1. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 04:56 PM #1
      Arggh.

      I was trying to install the Tyrol Subframe Bushing kit, and an OEM bolt snapped off.

      This photo is lifted from the Tyrol install instructions:

      Tyrol has the yellow circles on the photo as the bolts that must be loosened to lower the subframe.

      I added the blue circle. In the center of that star reinforcing web, I had a bolt. I decided to loosen that one too, since it made sense to me that the subframe needed to float down.

      Unfortunately for me, one of those bolts snapped:

      leaving half of it in the element above the subframe. Looking at a Bentley, I *think* the bit above is a "console". Looking at keffervwparts, I think they call it "[ 18 ] FRONT SUSPENSION / FRONT SUSPENSION / STABILIZER BAR / BRACKET"

      Here's a photo from my car of the missing bolt location:


      The blue circle is where the bolt is broken off (though the photo is the passenger side, and the broken one is on the driver's side).

      I put the yellow circle in there to indicate that that particular position is non-standard; I've got parts from the Diesel Geek Panzer Plate there. That's a 30mm nut that I've loosened, the Panzer Plate usually go up hard against that nut, and another 30mm "coolie hat" nut would hold it in place.

      Anybody have a clue what effect that sheared bolt has?

      I've never done a bolt extraction, and this seems like a really bad time to learn. I'm trying to figure out if I button all this stuff up without that one bolt, is it safe to drive to seek professional help?

      Full rez photos in this directory, if anybody wants to pixel peep:
      http://www.thepeaches.com/R32/2012_subframe/
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      08-11-2012 06:14 PM #2
      Ohhhhh damn, that stinks, Todd - sorry man I've had bolts about that size snap off a copule times when trying to extract them from motorcycles after high speed crashes where stuff was bent and I did (eventually) manage to extract them, but it was a BEEOTCH. They were also not that deep, but broken off at the surface, so I would have to think that, plus being underneath the car would make it pretty tough. I can't imagine you would hurt anything by driving it somewhere. I think I would if it were me, FWIW. Good luck, man!!

      BTW - did you determine if it was actually necessary to loosen those bolts or not? Was the install fairly strait forward aside from that? I have the Tyrol kit sitting on my shelf (+ some other stuff) that I have not felt like crawling under my car given the heat / have not had time for yet, and have been debating having them done at a shop vs DIY.

    3. Junior Member red2.slo's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 06:21 PM #3
      The bolt that you have broken off is one that holds the steering rack into the subframe. To remove it you may have to completely drop the subframe away from the car and rack. It would probably be the easiest way to remove the remaining bolt.

    4. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      08-11-2012 06:43 PM #4
      Thanks Red. I was afraid it would be something like that.

      I buttoned things back up as best I could without even opening up the Tyrol kit. I figure by doing that, it's drivable, though I intend to baby it. Then I can get a shop to finish the job.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      08-12-2012 01:44 PM #5
      FWIW, the replacement steering racks we get from VW now only have 3 rack to subframe bolts. The passenger side front bolt is eliminated, for whatever reason.

      I was convinced parts screwed up but the Gen 3 racks we get supercede to the three bolt version.

      If it was my car id still extract it now. Has the rack ever been changed on your car?

    6. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 02:46 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by MJZman View Post
      FWIW, the replacement steering racks we get from VW now only have 3 rack to subframe bolts. The passenger side front bolt is eliminated, for whatever reason.

      I was convinced parts screwed up but the Gen 3 racks we get supercede to the three bolt version.

      If it was my car id still extract it now. Has the rack ever been changed on your car?
      Very interesting.

      To my knowledge, no, the rack is original and never been touched. I've never done an FSB, a "heavy" alignment or had work done in that area.

      ....and five minutes later, it clicks that the Gen 3 racks are the reason why Tyrol's photos don't show the bolt I extracted.
      Last edited by Mr_Peach; 08-12-2012 at 02:53 PM.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

    7. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 02:51 PM #7
      Another odd bit (odd to me, at least):

      When I loosened several of these bolts, I got a half a teaspoon of "pond water" dripping down. I call it pond water because it smelled swampy. It's been dry here for weeks. I guess there's just some natural recesses in the subframe that capture water.

      The Bentley is pretty adamant that virtually all of these subframe bolts are "always replace". And of course they add, "Always replace rusted or corroded bolts, nuts and washers even if not specifically indicated."

      My experience got me thinking that maybe Tyrol should do a kit that replaces *all* the bolts, especially for those of us pushing 90K miles and five years of use. And suddenly a $200 kit becomes a $300 kit. Tyrol can't win....
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      08-12-2012 04:03 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      Another odd bit (odd to me, at least):

      When I loosened several of these bolts, I got a half a teaspoon of "pond water" dripping down. I call it pond water because it smelled swampy. It's been dry here for weeks. I guess there's just some natural recesses in the subframe that capture water.

      .
      Yeah, that water smells absolutely horrible. Its usually the rear most black colored bolts that the water resides in. Its especially horrible when using air tools, cause it usually gets you right on the upper lip.

      I will say every single one I have ever done subframe work on (audis also) has that stagnant nastiness in it as well. Touareg subframe bolt holes hold about a quart it seems, hahaha.

    9. Member mfbmike's Avatar
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      08-12-2012 10:56 PM #9
      Many will tell you, and my experience was no different, when changing the stock bolts for the passat bolts to cure the subframe clunking - upon removal of the old bolts, watch out for the water. lol.
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    10. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      08-13-2012 01:59 AM #10
      Pond water, hahaha. Sorry for the rough situation. That's a bitch when upgrading.
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    11. Member Saabstory02's Avatar
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      08-13-2012 08:19 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      When I loosened several of these bolts, I got a half a teaspoon of "pond water" dripping down.
      Hmmm. More reason to believe I had a great car... when I replaced my subframe bolts I got about an ounce of Evian from each bolt hole...



      Good luck man, hope you can get the snapped bolt sorted out
      -Jason
      '12 TDI 6M with "stuff"
      Drive a Diesel?

    12. Member mpearce's Avatar
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      08-13-2012 12:17 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      Another odd bit (odd to me, at least):

      When I loosened several of these bolts, I got a half a teaspoon of "pond water" dripping down. I call it pond water because it smelled swampy. It's been dry here for weeks. I guess there's just some natural recesses in the subframe that capture water.
      Is it possible its water that drips down from the a/c condensor? We all know what kind of smell the a/c can produce in these cars.

    13. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      08-17-2012 08:44 PM #13
      Got it sorted out. Motoring Unlimited took care of it for me, and in time for my next two track days (the first of which they're sponsoring!)

      Here's a few photos of the nasty bits that got drilled out:





      ..that's an AA battery in the background for scale. VW calls that a "bushing", but to me it's more like an industrial grade "Chicago screw".

      I guess I have to tip my hat to the engineering that makes that a replaceable part, instead of sacrificing the 3# hunk of metal (I presume) that it nests in.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

    14. Senior Member abeR's Avatar
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      05-02-2013 01:31 PM #14
      chicago screw! aka the sex bolt!

    15. 05-02-2013 02:56 PM #15
      So, should the bolts be replaced with new ones? Does anyone know the part #

      Thanks!

    16. Member roshlioBG's Avatar
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      05-06-2013 11:15 AM #16
      Yeah, second on the rest of the bolts? If I'm going under there I want them all swapped, period. I read some get replaced with Audi bolts-where the shank is solid and no threads are in the subframe portion.
      I am looking to do this on both my 2013 Golf R and 2011 JSW. Both have seen the track and the JSW got tw subframe clunk almost right after the first track visit.
      Looking at the Tyrol instruction an alignment is mandatory, so swapping all the bolts makes even more sense!!

    17. Member SFCL's Avatar
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      05-06-2013 02:41 PM #17
      Here are the bolts part #s for the R32
      N 105 296 02

      N 910 734 01
      N 911 671 01
      N 910 661 01
      N 105 580 02
      N 106 403 01

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