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    Thread: Lease haters, consider this.

    1. Senior Member
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      08-19-2012 12:55 PM #226
      Perhaps it would be more useful if the lease advocates made a thread as to how to determine if leasing is a better or worse deal than buying (and cash versus financing) based on the conditions specific to the person and car. For example:

      Predictable amount of time person will keep the car?
      Predictable mileage to be driven on the car?
      Relative level of subsidies for lease, rebates for buying, incentives for financing for that particular car?
      Lease restrictions on moving residence?
      Creditworthiness and how it affects lease money factor and financing interest rate?

    2. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 08:09 PM #227
      Quote Originally Posted by Crob View Post
      I find it amusing that most of the lease defenders in this thread have a new/nearly-new nicer/premium German car in their profile. The term "$30,000 millionaire" would apply to many of the defenders.
      You have got to be kidding me. I assume that this was aimed at least partially at since I have two 1-series in my signature.

      What makes you presume that I cannot afford the cars? Further, what makes you presume that I leased both of them?

      I love it when people get personal in here.

      And just so you know, I deal with wealthy people for a living. Nearly all of them lease new cars every 3 years.
      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird
      Cute young women smile at me at stop lights. When I'm facing east and dump the clutch, the earth spins backward and time and space fold. Old gypsie women give me the stink eye and and mutter spells to ward away the evil. My wife and I have twice as much sex as before I bought it. She's also taken to calling me Master. Every damn day.

    3. Member jepva's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 08:13 PM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      You have got to be kidding me. I assume that this was aimed at least partially at since I have two 1-series in my signature.

      What makes you presume that I cannot afford the cars? Further, what makes you presume that I leased both of them?

      I love it when people get personal in here.

      And just so you know, I deal with wealthy people for a living. Nearly all of them lease new cars every 3 years.
      Yea, it's really funny to hear people from the conventional/old school finance ways automatically assume you're poor or can't afford the cars and that you're a financial mess when they hear that you lease.

      I think there's actually data out there that shows most leasers actually have a higher annual income and better credit scores. For leasing in general, you're required to have a higher score than conventional loans. There's a reason most higher end luxury cars are sold on leases. Also funny hearing from that guy on "accumulation of assets"...buying a bunch of depreciating cars with cash is the last thing I would ever do with my money. I'll save my cash for investments and real estate, thank you.
      Last edited by jepva; 08-19-2012 at 08:15 PM.

    4. 08-19-2012 08:26 PM #229
      Quote Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
      Not that simple. Let's say the 63% residual is $12K, you have to pay tax on that 12K and titling fees, which vary from state to state but lets say on average it is $1K..that eats up that difference that you could make. If you are buying to flip, the best you will probably do is break even. Let alone does that person have $13K that they want to tie up.

      We haven't even discussed the advantages of multiple security deposits and other ways of buying down the money factor to save money. We can save that for "Leasing 201" classes.
      Wut.

    5. Member IgorRGTI's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 08:53 PM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by sethgood View Post
      Wut.
      Putting down multiple security deposits will lower your money factor, thus lowering your monthly payment. However, unlike putting money down to lower your cap cost and not getting it back, you get your security deposits back at the end of the lease.

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      08-19-2012 10:13 PM #231
      Quote Originally Posted by PsyberVW View Post
      Hold up. Most banks (if not ALL) require full coverage as long as they hold the lien.

      They'd be suckers not to. Also, even owning the car outright- comprehensive could be worth it, provided it isn't an absolute POS.

      Especially if it's your only vehicle. It's much better the INS co write up a fatty check to replace the car right away, than to be "saving up" for a new car all over again.
      Sorry should have been more specific, yes paying full cash for the car so that there is no lien. Did that with a 04' TSX. Just tossing it out there as another cost consideration.

    7. 08-19-2012 10:27 PM #232
      Quote Originally Posted by Lawrider View Post
      Sorry should have been more specific, yes paying full cash for the car so that there is no lien. Did that with a 04' TSX. Just tossing it out there as another cost consideration.
      What? You are saying you'd willingly spend $20,000+ on a new car and NOT Put full comprehensive coverage on it?

      Call me crazy but I put full coverage on my 91 SHO. My limit for full coverage is $1,000. Below that I'll stick with liability only.
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    8. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 11:34 PM #233
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      What? You are saying you'd willingly spend $20,000+ on a new car and NOT Put full comprehensive coverage on it?

      Call me crazy but I put full coverage on my 91 SHO. My limit for full coverage is $1,000. Below that I'll stick with liability only.
      I planned on doing liablity only on my Dakota - but was shocked to find out that collision w/$500 deductable was less than $10 more per month with Progressive. At that price, you're silly not to IMO.

    9. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 11:53 PM #234
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      I planned on doing liablity only on my Dakota - but was shocked to find out that collision w/$500 deductable was less than $10 more per month with Progressive. At that price, you're silly not to IMO.
      Don't waste your breath. I have a feeling that a guy who throws down all-cash on a valuable used car, only to determine that comprehensive coverage is not worth it, is not the kind of guy that will listen to advice.

      But who are we to opine. We are apparently $30,000 millionaires.
      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird
      Cute young women smile at me at stop lights. When I'm facing east and dump the clutch, the earth spins backward and time and space fold. Old gypsie women give me the stink eye and and mutter spells to ward away the evil. My wife and I have twice as much sex as before I bought it. She's also taken to calling me Master. Every damn day.

    10. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:05 AM #235
      I am very thankful for all the people who love to lease their cars. Without them (to absorb the depreciation) how can the rest of us get their hands on a slightly used, properly maintained 1 or 2 year old cars that have dropped in price?

      I bought my 335i when it was 1 year old with just 3,520 miles for $17K LESS than what it was originally sold for. Not bad for a fully loaded car with 3 years remaining of full warranty, maintenance and BMW Assist included.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    11. Member Phil Pugliese's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:43 AM #236
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      I am very thankful for all the people who love to lease their cars. Without them (to absorb the depreciation) how can the rest of us get their hands on a slightly used, properly maintained 1 or 2 year old cars that have dropped in price?

      I bought my 335i when it was 1 year old with just 3,520 miles for $17K LESS than what it was originally sold for. Not bad for a fully loaded car with 3 years remaining of full warranty, maintenance and BMW Assist included.
      That does you logic have to do with leasing?
      CLICK * POINT * CHUTE

    12. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:44 AM #237
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      You have got to be kidding me. I assume that this was aimed at least partially at since I have two 1-series in my signature.

      What makes you presume that I cannot afford the cars? Further, what makes you presume that I leased both of them?

      I love it when people get personal in here.

      And just so you know, I deal with wealthy people for a living. Nearly all of them lease new cars every 3 years.
      I couldn't agree more. I was all set on buying my car, but the lease deal was just too good to pass up. Knowing that I wouldn't want to keep the car for more than 3 years, factoring in the great lease offer, it became a no brainer. But there are those who don't want to look at it objectively and seem to think that those who purchase are somehow superior in some way. Fbobberts has it right with his comments. It depends on the situation and whether you're planning on having that car for the long term.

    13. Member SchnellFowVay's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:16 AM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      I am very thankful for all the people who love to lease their cars. Without them (to absorb the depreciation) how can the rest of us get their hands on a slightly used, properly maintained 1 or 2 year old cars that have dropped in price?

      I bought my 335i when it was 1 year old with just 3,520 miles for $17K LESS than what it was originally sold for. Not bad for a fully loaded car with 3 years remaining of full warranty, maintenance and BMW Assist included.
      How is this even possible? I constantly see the BMW dealers out here selling 36k cars that are 3 years old and off-lease for ~80% of MSRP.

      Did you know someone at the dealership?!
      Quote Originally Posted by Seabird
      Cute young women smile at me at stop lights. When I'm facing east and dump the clutch, the earth spins backward and time and space fold. Old gypsie women give me the stink eye and and mutter spells to ward away the evil. My wife and I have twice as much sex as before I bought it. She's also taken to calling me Master. Every damn day.

    14. Banned seadoo2006's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:21 AM #239
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      How is this even possible? I constantly see the BMW dealers out here selling 36k cars that are 3 years old and off-lease for ~80% of MSRP.

      Did you know someone at the dealership?!
      Nope ... you just live in the wrong part of the US ... move to the MidWest ... our used auto prices are far more reasonable than you West Coasters and East Coasters.

    15. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 06:42 AM #240
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      How is this even possible? I constantly see the BMW dealers out here selling 36k cars that are 3 years old and off-lease for ~80% of MSRP.

      Did you know someone at the dealership?!
      Probably a salvage branded car.

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      08-20-2012 07:24 AM #241
      Quote Originally Posted by SchnellFowVay View Post
      How is this even possible? I constantly see the BMW dealers out here selling 36k cars that are 3 years old and off-lease for ~80% of MSRP.

      Did you know someone at the dealership?!


      Really? How is that even possible? I cannot fathom paying that much for a used BMW.

      Jeez, why not just buy a new one? The buyer almost certainly will get something knocked off the sticker & if the car is financed, the interest rate will almost certainly be lower on a new car, making the total price difference between new & used even less.
      Last edited by bbk; 08-20-2012 at 01:22 PM.

    17. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 07:56 AM #242
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Probably a salvage branded car.
      Not really, but I'll let you have that illusion for a while.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    18. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 07:57 AM #243
      Quote Originally Posted by seadoo2006 View Post
      Nope ... you just live in the wrong part of the US ... move to the MidWest ... our used auto prices are far more reasonable than you West Coasters and East Coasters.
      That!


      ..and it's not like we have thousands of cars like that available under our noses. It took me 3 months of solid searching and calling to find my car. I put a $500.00 deposit before I even saw pictures of it online, let alone seen it. There are discounts like that, you just have to be patient and jump on the opportunity without hesitation when it presents itself.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    19. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 09:12 AM #244
      Quote Originally Posted by Crob View Post
      I find it amusing that most of the lease defenders in this thread have a new/nearly-new nicer/premium German car in their profile. The term "$30,000 millionaire" would apply to many of the defenders.
      Whatever you want to believe, moron.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    20. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 09:14 AM #245
      We've been having this discussion here for 15 years and the more things change, the more they stay the same....

      • People comparing leases to buying a car and keeping it forever; these are 2 totally different goals/plans.
      • People who think because leasing doesn't work for "them" that it is a bad idea for everybody.
      • People who clearly have no idea how leasing works arguing vehemently against leasing.
      • Self-righteous cash-only buyers.



      carry on.

    21. Member MAGICGTI's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 09:30 AM #246
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      We've been having this discussion here for 15 years and the more things change, the more they stay the same....

      • People comparing leases to buying a car and keeping it forever; these are 2 totally different goals/plans.
      • People who think because leasing doesn't work for "them" that it is a bad idea for everybody.
      • People who clearly have no idea how leasing works arguing vehemently against leasing.
      • Self-righteous cash-only buyers.



      carry on.
      I mean, that's about everything. I'll say that working for BMW/MINI I should have leased an E90 328i but didn't, stupid move.

    22. Member MatchStick's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 09:35 AM #247
      so, for the people who equate leasing to not owning the car, I assume you are buying your cars with cash. because you don't own a car with a note on it either.

      the way you can tell if you own a car is if the title is in your fireproof lockbox at home.

      I will make my own sweeping generalization - a lot of times it seems to me the guys using cash to buy used cars have a somewhat extensive stable of crappy to nice, but not collectible, cars. I am not sure how compiling your own front lawn junkyard of cars is any more fiscally sound than taking out a loan or signing a lease for a single vehicle.
      Last edited by MatchStick; 08-20-2012 at 09:40 AM.

    23. Member Phil Pugliese's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 09:38 AM #248
      Quote Originally Posted by MatchStick View Post
      so, for the people who equate leasing to not owning the car, I assume you are buying your cars with cash. because you don't own a car with a note on it either.

      the way you can tell if you own a car is if the title is in your fireproof lockbox at home.
      Yup. Miss a payment and the bank will remind you who owns the car.

      Leasing is just ONE way to finance a car, one way, not the only way.
      CLICK * POINT * CHUTE

    24. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 10:14 AM #249
      Quote Originally Posted by Phil Pugliese View Post
      Yup. Miss a payment and the bank will remind you who owns the car.

      Leasing is just ONE way to finance a car, one way, not the only way.
      I paid off my car in 1.5 years. For almost 2 years now, I've been driving a fully loaded E90 335i and smiling at my monthly car expenses: under $200 including gas, insurance and maintenance. That's not likely to change any time soon so the longer I keep the car, the lower the cost of ownership for me.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    25. Member Fe2O3's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 10:18 AM #250
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      Leasing is polarizing, I doubt anyone will change their stance on leasing due to some stranger posting about it on TLC.

      Not so fast. I was a lease hater until I was challenged by another TCL member to take some time and learn how they work. Glad I had an open mind

      Here's a question that lease veterans can perhaps answer. What if my mileage allowance is 10k or 12k miles, but we only use around 8k? Will I benefit with any sort of credit at the end or is the residual % locked in from inception? (hopefully not already addressed in here, no time to read the whole thread )
      Quote Originally Posted by phryxis View Post
      sprayed it on, waited some time, and proceeded to go at it with a scraper, some pliers, and a lot of f-ing hard work.

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