not a lot of good dog press lately

[crannky]

My responsibility:
If I see a pitbull off leash, I have to assume it's an untrained dog that very likely could be dangerous. If it comes at me, I'm going to shoot it.

You sound like an incredibly tough individual. But what constitutes coming at you?

[chris@revotechnik]

But GeoffD not knowing the specifics of a breed of dogs isn't going to result in anybody being injured. So it's really not just as dangerous, is it?

Ignorance is always dangerous.


Really the point is that pit bull is = to assault rifle in the fact that it is almost always incorrectly used. Him being concerned only with a 100lbs extremely rare pit bull makes no sense when an off the leash 100lbs rare golden Retreiver is just as dangerous. Making the assumption that only the pit bull could possibly cause his family harm is what is dangerous.

[Biz]

Making the assumption that only the pit bull could possibly cause his family harm is what is dangerous.

Totally agree.

Where I would possibly take issue with your statement is that two dogs, regardless of breed, are equally dangerous. I'd argue things like bite strength and the body composition of the dog are breed-related factors and influence how dangerous the situation is. You could argue temperament, too, but I've met douchebag dogs of all breeds, so that's much less scientific.

[kimilein]

You sound like an incredibly tough individual. But what constitutes coming at you?

Complimenting his car. He'll put you to sleep. That's what he does.

[chris@revotechnik]

Where I would possibly take issue with your statement is that two dogs, regardless of breed, are equally dangerous. I'd argue things like bite strength and the body composition of the dog are breed-related factors and influence how dangerous the situation is. You could argue temperament, too, but I've met douchebag dogs of all breeds, so that's much less scientific.

Pit bulls are usually below other dogs in number of attacks/hospital visits etc on people compared to even labradors and golden retrievers. What I take issue with is the fact that people constantly ignore this and tend to blame pit bulls or even call any unknown breed dog involved in an attack a pit bull. Especially since pit bulls are actually usually much less human aggressive then many dogs people believe are safer. (pitbulls are usually animal aggressive if anything not human)

A common lab or golden retriever is actually bigger then a common pitbull, they may not appear just as strong due to their coat but they will be if they were to attack you and chances are you wouldn't tell the difference in their bite strength as both would be very strong and possibly destructive.


My dogs aren't perfect and I'm far from a perfect owner, so I"m not even saying any of this as someone who is trying to say they are better then the next guy. I just really disagree with the generalizations made about pit bulls since most are made based on nothing real, or worse cases where the dog wasn't even a pit bull but it was big and scary so must have been a pit.

[GodSquadMandrake]

This thread's done now. Chris came to work...

[NWarty]

A Pomeranian may land you in the hospital with a couple of stitches. A Pit bull can land you in the morgue.

Like I said earlier, dogs like the Pit maybe not constitute the number of attacks. I have friends that work in pharmacies that can attest to the amount of dog attacks/bites. But the damage that these dogs can wreak is devastating if they do snap.

Just two hours ago I was on my daily PT run around the lake here. A gentlemen with a huge German Shepard was twenty yards from me restraining the dog with a lot of force, and yeah, that dog had a disposition that I deemed hostile and wouldn't eff with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SOAR]

Meh. Bad/no training and lack of socialization will lead to bad dogs.

Yeah, this is usually caused by not establishing yourself as the alpha. I don't wanna get all sexist up in here, but a lot of times women have a hard time establishing themselves as the alpha with large dog breeds. Men do to in some cases, but it's usually women because they don't have the physical strength to put the dog in it's place the moment it steps out of line, and they know this.

Pits get singled out because there are A LOT of them. But there are breeds more dangerous than them. I had a 130lb Great Pyranees that had quite the killer instinct, and there was no doubt in my mind that it would easily kill a grown man if it deemed necessary. Luckily I kept her in check, aside from occasionally finding dead cats/squirrels/whatever else in my back yard.

[titleist1976]

Pit bulls are usually below other dogs in number of attacks/hospital visits etc on people compared to even labradors and golden retrievers. What I take issue with is the fact that people constantly ignore this and tend to blame pit bulls or even call any unknown breed dog involved in an attack a pit bull. Especially since pit bulls are actually usually much less human aggressive then many dogs people believe are safer. (pitbulls are usually animal aggressive if anything not human)

A common lab or golden retriever is actually bigger then a common pitbull, they may not appear just as strong due to their coat but they will be if they were to attack you and chances are you wouldn't tell the difference in their bite strength as both would be very strong and possibly destructive.

I can attest to this. My six month old lab sent me to the hospital after her paw jammed into my eye after running across the hard wood floor and not being able to stop. What a vicious dog she was.

On the other hand, a buddy of mine just posted on FB that her mother (who had been a staunch pb supporter for many years) had an incident with their pb, a neighbor's pb and the family cat. The family cat didn't stand a chance, the two pb's were put down, and the mother doesn't know what to think anymore.

You really need to get a separate login for OT.

[chris@revotechnik]

You really need to get a separate login for OT.

Because some members are too immature to have adult conversations? no sorry

Besides more then one username is against the rules, if I had a second name someone would know and every post someone disagreed with that second username they would just post well its just chris from revo again trying to out me? what would that do?

[Cousin Eddie]

I just don't understand why people defend the hell out of what is naturally a dangerous animal. The PitBull is an animal that is a breed genetically stronger than its peers. Lockjaw, front legs forward with a bull stance and strong.

This is an Exaggeration but It's like people who have bears as pets or are trainers. Yes all bears are dangerous but the Grizzly bears will make a mess out of you quicker. Sure black bears cause more hospital visits because there are more of them around as they are less feared. But let's face it the reality (and it doesn't take a genius to figure this out) is that the Grizzly is superior physically and in temperament in every way.

Same goes for the PitBull. You want to trust one, love one whatever I'm sure they're a great companion. I'm sure a grizzly bear is a great friendly companion when he isn't ripping your face to shreds with his claws too. But I'm not the least bit ****ing surprised when a grizzly attacks a human. Or a tiger, or a PitBull. It's what these animals are genetically engineered to do. Anyone who denies that is out of touch with reality and in denial.

The physical differences between a wiener dog and a PitBull are pretty obvious. Not all dogs are equal.

[Cousin Eddie]

And I hate the Golden retriever argument. Of course there's gonna be more golden retriever incidents they're likely the most commonly owned breed.

That's like saying Toyota Carollas are dangerous because the majority of car accidents happen in them, that's just probability due to volume. And then defending that super cars driving 200 mph are safer because there are fewer accident numbers. It's flawed logic.

[GeoffD]

A Pomeranian may land you in the hospital with a couple of stitches. A Pit bull can land you in the morgue.

Like I said earlier, dogs like the Pit maybe not constitute the number of attacks. I have friends that work in pharmacies that can attest to the amount of dog attacks/bites. But the damage that these dogs can wreak is devastating if they do snap.

Just two hours ago I was on my daily PT run around the lake here. A gentlemen with a huge German Shepard was twenty yards from me restraining the dog with a lot of force, and yeah, that dog had a disposition that I deemed hostile and wouldn't eff with.

In the 'burbs, dogs are neutered. In poor urban environments, many aren't. With the pit so popular in that environment, there are jillions of pit mix dogs in cities. Many aren't trained or socialized. Just what the world needs.... tons of untrained dogs with strong jaws on the streets.

I've known many German Shepherds in my life. I've known a few good ones but most totally suck. They're ridiculously territorial and protective biting machines and these are family dogs that get a ton of training and socialization. The Pits and Pit mix I know are all marshmallows but they've been trained and socialized.

[chris@revotechnik]

The physical differences between a wiener dog and a PitBull are pretty obvious. Not all dogs are equal.

Who is comparing a pitbull to a weiner dog?

It is a very valid point to state that dogs people assume are perfect family dogs like labs and retreivers are actually often larger, stronger, and responsible for more dog on people attacks then pit bulls.

IF someone is going to say they will shoot a pitbull but then have no problems letting an unknown lab roll around with their kid, its a valid point to bring up the fact that more labs put people in hospitals then pitbulls do. (not saying someone said that just pointing out a mentality that does exist)

Pitbulls don't have lock jaws.

[chris@revotechnik]

And I hate the Golden retriever argument. Of course there's gonna be more golden retriever incidents they're likely the most commonly owned breed.

You hate that people bring up a common breed people think they can know and trust puts more people in the hospital then others?

It isn't important to understand that any dog can hurt you? That even a golden retriever can kill you? You'd prefer that people incorrectly blame a breed of dog responsible for less injuries and ignore those actually causing damage?

Labs are actually the most popular breed in the US, goldens are usually about 4 or 5.


Retriever killed a baby.. ban all golden retrievers!
http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/20...outh-carolina/

Why ignore that all dogs are potentially dangerous because you have some unfounded belief only pits are bad?

[GeoffD]

And I hate the Golden retriever argument. Of course there's gonna be more golden retriever incidents they're likely the most commonly owned breed.

That's like saying Toyota Carollas are dangerous because the majority of car accidents happen in them, that's just probability due to volume. And then defending that super cars driving 200 mph are safer because there are fewer accident numbers. It's flawed logic.

In my observation, the reason there are a lot of Golden Retriever bites is because they're suburban baby factory dogs with a docile reputation. You own a golden. Somebody comes over to your house and calmly lets their toddler climb all over your dog. The dog eventually gets pissed and gives a warning nip. Huge screams and tears with moron overprotective parents. Vicious biting dog gets reported. If you had a German Shepherd, Rottie, or Doberman, mommy and daddy would keep junior the hell away from your dog.

I have friends who had a Dalmation and that's a far less docile breed. From the stupid Disney movie, every little kid would come running up to the dog. They had to be very attentive and tell parents to keep their rug rats the F away from their dog before the warning nip happened.

[GeoffD]

IF someone is going to say they will shoot a pitbull but then have no problems letting an unknown lab roll around with their kid, its a valid point to bring up the fact that more labs put people in hospitals then pitbulls do. (not saying someone said that just pointing out a mentality that does exist)

Actually, it's not a valid point because virtually any large black dog is misreported as being a Labrador Retriever. I have friends with an enormous black pit mix that is classified as "lab". Similarly, any larger short haired yellow dog is reported as a yellow lab. If it's not obviously a German Shepherd or Doberman, it gets called a lab on the hospital police report.

[chris@revotechnik]

Or a tiger, or a PitBull. It's what these animals are genetically engineered to do. Anyone who denies that is out of touch with reality and in denial.

It isn't a matter of being in denial, it is a matter that you could not be more misinformed then you are showing to be. At no point in time were pitbulls genetically engineered to harm a human, in fact it is 100% the opposite and pits that showed human aggression were actually put down.

The complete OPPOSITE of what you are attempting to pass off as fact is actually true.


Due to the lack of human agression pits are very infrequently used as guard animals, outside of people just being scared of them and sometimes used as a visual deterrent.

We don't even lock our doors, not because our dogs would stop someone from coming in, but because they sound like they would not be very welcoming. If you did decide to come in they'd just jump up on you (working on that) wanting to get pet, we'd then proceed to get robbed. If the theif left the front door open the dogs would probably all just run to the car they were loading with my tv.

[chris@revotechnik]

Actually, it's not a valid point because virtually any large black dog is misreported as being a Labrador Retriever. I have friends with an enormous black pit mix that is classified as "lab". Similarly, any larger short haired yellow dog is reported as a yellow lab. If it's not obviously a German Shepherd or Doberman, it gets called a lab on the hospital police report.

That is 100% to be blamed on local breed restrictions, you are correct in GA you won't find a listing for a pit at a rescue it will be a lab mix because pits are not supposed to be adopted out.

When I first took mine to the vet they said what do you want it listed as and I said pit, they asked if I Said if i was sure and I Said yes.


for the sake of reporting breed injuries I have seen no evidence they are mislabeled then.


But the same argument can be made that any dog that is big and attacks a person is a pit bull, for the sake of getting peoples attention on the news. there is rarely evidence that the dog listed in a news report is actually a pit.

[Cousin Eddie]

Tigers and bears don't usually attack humans on the regular either. I wasnt saying they're genetically engineered to harm humans, I said they're genetically engineered to be good at charging and ripping things to shreds. Be that a human or otherwise they have a clearly visible advantage on their counterparts. My neighbours two bull terriers are the same way. Things are massive and they jump up on your legs to be pet they're heavy. I am not afraid of dogs or dogs biting me. Even if I was bitten and required stitches I wouldn't necessarily blame the dog or owner, it's an animal it's what they do.

I'm merely saying I can see the clear advantage and strengths that certain animals have over other animals and which animals are dangerous compared to others. It's not hard to understand. You can train ANY animal on the face of the earth to be gentle and friendly with humans. That doesn't change the fact that naturally they are still dangerous animals that could do damage at anytime. Like the lady who had her face ripped off by the chimpanzee.

[ridersna]

this reminds me of the whole ''guns dont kill people,people kill people'' thing.

dogs are dogs.pitbulls are naturally more aggressive then others.if you own one then you know this and assume the risks of owning it.

and if you cant tame and train it,then dont own it!

[Big M]

I totally understand this mentality. That's why I always put myself between my dog and a walker/jogger. I've seen the fear in people's faces when they figure out she's a pit so I do my best to make them comfortable.

Even just having a leash is underrated. Strangers don't know your dog well enough to give it the benefit of the doubt. Especially breeds like pit bulls.

It drives me nuts when I'm walking a wooded trail, and along comes a lone pit bull or German Shepherd around the bend. No leash, no owner in sight. He just stares me down, and I have to wait to see if he'll attack or what. Then the owner comes along 5 - 10 seconds later, sees me and says, "Oh don't worry about ol' Mick. He's a good dog." Yeah? How the **** am I supposed to know that?

Even better when I'm at the local HS track running or working out, and some big, athletic stray comes running at me. And the owner is nowhere to be found.

Leash your dogs, people. It's simple courtesy.

[chris@revotechnik]

Tigers and bears don't usually attack humans on the regular either. I wasnt saying they're genetically engineered to harm humans,

But I'm not the least bit ****ing surprised when a grizzly attacks a human. Or a tiger, or a PitBull. It's what these animals are genetically engineered to do.

No, you did in fact just state that pits are genetically engineered to attack humans.

You also said right before that they have lock jaws another complete false statement.

I get you don't like them but please get your facts straight.

[chris@revotechnik]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breed...PitBullTerrier

[Cousin Eddie]

No, you did in fact just state that pits are genetically engineered to attack humans.

You also said right before that they have lock jaws another complete false statement.

I get you don't like them but please get your facts straight.

And just where did you "get" that I don't like them? I like them, they're fascinating. The term "lockjaw" was used in the sense they have a strong jaw and refuse to let go. They shake their head from side to side viciously while locked on. Our old Husky would kill rabbits the same way if he got to one. But Huskies are basically wolves and equally as potentially dangerous as any other wild animal.

I never said I didn't like them, I said I understand that they're predetermined to be more dangerous due to their physical makeup than other dogs.

My ex had a black lab/staff mix (heavy on the staff) and he was a great dog. I'm merely saying I understand they can be dangerous and when they charge like the one at the cop did you often have very little time to react. As I stated earlier I am not afraid of dogs. I'd be lying if I said I didnt feel a little uncomfortable the first time my neighbour's bull terriers both came charging at me to "say hello".

[Cousin Eddie]

http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breed...PitBullTerrier

And pretty much everything you didn't highlight in that post is exactly what I was saying about Pitbulls being physically more capable and thus doing more damage than most other breeds. Also that big part right in the middle about training? Yeah, I don't think the tweaker in the O.P. followed that part.

That's the danger as I said. A poorly trained circus bear is dangerous. If you go to Africa and slap a leash on a tiger that doesn't make it a domesticated pet. Pitbulls are no different, yes they can be trained to co-exist but the dangers of their natural aggressive abilities are very real at all times.

[chris@revotechnik]

ANY DOG is no different, yes they can be trained to co-exist but the dangers of their natural aggressive abilities are very real at all times.

FTFY..

Stop insisting on being so ignorant on a single breed, actually educate yourself.

[Cousin Eddie]

FTFY..

Stop insisting on being so ignorant on a single breed, actually educate yourself.

So all cats are equally as dangerous then? A tabby is as able to rip you to shreds as a lion, cougar, tiger? They all inflict the same damage? A koala bear, black bear, and grizzly bear are all exactly the same?

You keep calling me ignorant yet you're the one denying that Pitbulls have a clear physical advantage in their strengths as an animal. Remove all temperament even and just focus on physical traits.

[chris@revotechnik]

Remove all temperament even and just focus on physical traits.

Ok then based on physical traits there are many breeds larger and physically stronger that you chose to ignore.


Why suddenly ignore temperament? because you have not been shown over and over and over again their temperament is not to be aggressive towards people?


So we have a dog smaller and not as strong as many more common breeds that also does not have a temperament of aggression towards people. Clearly this is the one to pin point and claim is the problem.


As for cats, yes my pit has lost about 6 encounters in the past 2 years to one of my GFs cats, a whopping 6lbs. Dog corners cat out of curiosity, cat gets nervous and claws the crap out of her face, dog lays there doing nothing.. Vicious killer!

[GTiTOM]

ITT: people with zero breed experience throwing opinions around like fact (Chris@revotech )

[leaftye]

I, as a member of the public who wants nothing to do with your hobby, should not be expected to understand your hobby because you can't keep your plaything on your own property and under control.

Agreed. The dog owner bears extra responsibility by virtue of dog ownership. Too bad leash laws aren't aggressively enforced. It'd be a start.

[titleist1976]

Because some members are too immature to have adult conversations? no sorry

Your arguments around here are far from mature, ergo I'd hate to be one of your customers that need some support. I wouldn't buy your product based upon some of the dumb**** that you type here. But, you don't see it, so ramble on...

[GTiTOM]

My responsibility:
If I see a pitbull off leash, I have to assume it's an untrained dog that very likely could be dangerous. If it comes at me, I'm going to shoot it.

That's a great assumption.

If my pit got off leash and saw you, she'd run straight at you because she adores people. If you shot it because it was 'coming at you', I'd do everything I could to make sure you were banned from ever carrying a gun again, since you clearly would have shown zero ability to assess a threat. I mean, do you shoot minorities if they're running at you on the street?

In the 'burbs, dogs are neutered. In poor urban environments, many aren't. With the pit so popular in that environment, there are jillions of pit mix dogs in cities. Many aren't trained or socialized. Just what the world needs.... tons of untrained dogs with strong jaws on the streets.

And this is the problem. Trying to ban the breed won't do anything. Even if it was accomplished, these lowlifes would turn to shepherds/rotties/dobies etc. You'd have a bunch of those mixes running around, who by the way, have stronger jaws than pits. BSL's don't work, but owners need to be held accountable for their dogs and spay/neuter programs need to be even more easily accessible than they are now.

Actually, it's not a valid point because virtually any large black dog is misreported as being a Labrador Retriever. I have friends with an enormous black pit mix that is classified as "lab". Similarly, any larger short haired yellow dog is reported as a yellow lab. If it's not obviously a German Shepherd or Doberman, it gets called a lab on the hospital police report.

This is hilariously backwards. Any large dog that bites someone isn't put down as a 'lab' --- it's put down as 'pit bull' or 'pit bull type dog'. It's the exact reason so many bites are disproportionately attributed to pit bulls. Any large somewhat boxy dog that bites someone becomes a 'pit bull'. Pit bull has become a term that basically means big scary mutt. And if someone gets bit by what they think is a pit, it ends up on the news.

This thread perfectly demonstrates that. A story about a woman killed by 2 presas (basically, spanish mastiff guard dogs) turns into a story about pits, with everyone talking about how the presas look like pits. Those dogs are literally 5x the size of my dog --- yet if a presa killed someone, there's a good chance the media would report it as a pit bull and a call would be made for more BSLs to ban pits.

No one ever believes my dog is a pit because she's 40 pounds. They always tell me she's "too small", because everyone thinks pits are supposed to be 80-100 pounds, when in fact they're supposed to be 35-65.

[GTiTOM]

I can attest to this. My six month old lab sent me to the hospital after her paw jammed into my eye after running across the hard wood floor and not being able to stop. What a vicious dog she was.

On the other hand, a buddy of mine just posted on FB that her mother (who had been a staunch pb supporter for many years) had an incident with their pb, a neighbor's pb and the family cat. The family cat didn't stand a chance, the two pb's were put down, and the mother doesn't know what to think anymore.

You really need to get a separate login for OT.

Wait, the dogs killed the cat? And that was the situation? And that is supposed to influence someone's opinion of the breed? What would you think if two labs killed a cat?

[leaftye]

That's a great assumption.

If my pit got off leash and saw you, she'd run straight at you because she adores people. If you shot it because it was 'coming at you', I'd do everything I could to make sure you were banned from ever carrying a gun again, since you clearly would have shown zero ability to assess a threat. I mean, do you shoot minorities if they're running at you on the street?

And you would lose. In no way should a citizen have to risk harm because you're too irresponsible to leash your dog. You're an idiot if you think anyone should have to wait to see if your dog will lick or bite before defending themselves. You have a dog that has the capacity to cause great harm. If you don't want others and your dog to get hurt, then be a responsible dog owner. Using a leash when you're off your property and out of dog parks would be the best idea, followed far behind by training your dog to be more cautious about approaching strangers.