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    Thread: not a lot of good dog press lately

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      08-19-2012 12:08 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      Or a tiger, or a PitBull. It's what these animals are genetically engineered to do. Anyone who denies that is out of touch with reality and in denial.

      It isn't a matter of being in denial, it is a matter that you could not be more misinformed then you are showing to be. At no point in time were pitbulls genetically engineered to harm a human, in fact it is 100% the opposite and pits that showed human aggression were actually put down.

      The complete OPPOSITE of what you are attempting to pass off as fact is actually true.


      Due to the lack of human agression pits are very infrequently used as guard animals, outside of people just being scared of them and sometimes used as a visual deterrent.

      We don't even lock our doors, not because our dogs would stop someone from coming in, but because they sound like they would not be very welcoming. If you did decide to come in they'd just jump up on you (working on that) wanting to get pet, we'd then proceed to get robbed. If the theif left the front door open the dogs would probably all just run to the car they were loading with my tv.

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      08-19-2012 12:12 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      Actually, it's not a valid point because virtually any large black dog is misreported as being a Labrador Retriever. I have friends with an enormous black pit mix that is classified as "lab". Similarly, any larger short haired yellow dog is reported as a yellow lab. If it's not obviously a German Shepherd or Doberman, it gets called a lab on the hospital police report.

      That is 100% to be blamed on local breed restrictions, you are correct in GA you won't find a listing for a pit at a rescue it will be a lab mix because pits are not supposed to be adopted out.

      When I first took mine to the vet they said what do you want it listed as and I said pit, they asked if I Said if i was sure and I Said yes.


      for the sake of reporting breed injuries I have seen no evidence they are mislabeled then.


      But the same argument can be made that any dog that is big and attacks a person is a pit bull, for the sake of getting peoples attention on the news. there is rarely evidence that the dog listed in a news report is actually a pit.

    3. Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 12:17 PM #53
      Tigers and bears don't usually attack humans on the regular either. I wasnt saying they're genetically engineered to harm humans, I said they're genetically engineered to be good at charging and ripping things to shreds. Be that a human or otherwise they have a clearly visible advantage on their counterparts. My neighbours two bull terriers are the same way. Things are massive and they jump up on your legs to be pet they're heavy. I am not afraid of dogs or dogs biting me. Even if I was bitten and required stitches I wouldn't necessarily blame the dog or owner, it's an animal it's what they do.

      I'm merely saying I can see the clear advantage and strengths that certain animals have over other animals and which animals are dangerous compared to others. It's not hard to understand. You can train ANY animal on the face of the earth to be gentle and friendly with humans. That doesn't change the fact that naturally they are still dangerous animals that could do damage at anytime. Like the lady who had her face ripped off by the chimpanzee.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    4. Member ridersna's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 12:18 PM #54
      this reminds me of the whole ''guns dont kill people,people kill people'' thing.

      dogs are dogs.pitbulls are naturally more aggressive then others.if you own one then you know this and assume the risks of owning it.

      and if you cant tame and train it,then dont own it!
      Quote Originally Posted by pops View Post
      Sometimes you just have to dim the lights, light a candle, pick out the right clip, and make love to yourself.....
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      I usually stick a ham on either end of my gun and bench press it naked in my window for 10 minutes before I turn in.

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      08-19-2012 12:27 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by VW1.8Tsunami View Post
      I totally understand this mentality. That's why I always put myself between my dog and a walker/jogger. I've seen the fear in people's faces when they figure out she's a pit so I do my best to make them comfortable.


      Even just having a leash is underrated. Strangers don't know your dog well enough to give it the benefit of the doubt. Especially breeds like pit bulls.

      It drives me nuts when I'm walking a wooded trail, and along comes a lone pit bull or German Shepherd around the bend. No leash, no owner in sight. He just stares me down, and I have to wait to see if he'll attack or what. Then the owner comes along 5 - 10 seconds later, sees me and says, "Oh don't worry about ol' Mick. He's a good dog." Yeah? How the **** am I supposed to know that?

      Even better when I'm at the local HS track running or working out, and some big, athletic stray comes running at me. And the owner is nowhere to be found.

      Leash your dogs, people. It's simple courtesy.

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      08-19-2012 12:34 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      Tigers and bears don't usually attack humans on the regular either. I wasnt saying they're genetically engineered to harm humans,
      But I'm not the least bit ****ing surprised when a grizzly attacks a human. Or a tiger, or a PitBull. It's what these animals are genetically engineered to do.
      No, you did in fact just state that pits are genetically engineered to attack humans.

      You also said right before that they have lock jaws another complete false statement.

      I get you don't like them but please get your facts straight.

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      08-19-2012 12:42 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by UKC
      [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed’s natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.

      http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breed...PitBullTerrier

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      08-19-2012 12:42 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      No, you did in fact just state that pits are genetically engineered to attack humans.

      You also said right before that they have lock jaws another complete false statement.

      I get you don't like them but please get your facts straight.
      And just where did you "get" that I don't like them? I like them, they're fascinating. The term "lockjaw" was used in the sense they have a strong jaw and refuse to let go. They shake their head from side to side viciously while locked on. Our old Husky would kill rabbits the same way if he got to one. But Huskies are basically wolves and equally as potentially dangerous as any other wild animal.

      I never said I didn't like them, I said I understand that they're predetermined to be more dangerous due to their physical makeup than other dogs.

      My ex had a black lab/staff mix (heavy on the staff) and he was a great dog. I'm merely saying I understand they can be dangerous and when they charge like the one at the cop did you often have very little time to react. As I stated earlier I am not afraid of dogs. I'd be lying if I said I didnt feel a little uncomfortable the first time my neighbour's bull terriers both came charging at me to "say hello".
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    9. Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 12:47 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      And pretty much everything you didn't highlight in that post is exactly what I was saying about Pitbulls being physically more capable and thus doing more damage than most other breeds. Also that big part right in the middle about training? Yeah, I don't think the tweaker in the O.P. followed that part.

      That's the danger as I said. A poorly trained circus bear is dangerous. If you go to Africa and slap a leash on a tiger that doesn't make it a domesticated pet. Pitbulls are no different, yes they can be trained to co-exist but the dangers of their natural aggressive abilities are very real at all times.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

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      08-19-2012 12:58 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post

      ANY DOG is no different, yes they can be trained to co-exist but the dangers of their natural aggressive abilities are very real at all times.

      FTFY..

      Stop insisting on being so ignorant on a single breed, actually educate yourself.

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      08-19-2012 01:13 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      FTFY..

      Stop insisting on being so ignorant on a single breed, actually educate yourself.
      So all cats are equally as dangerous then? A tabby is as able to rip you to shreds as a lion, cougar, tiger? They all inflict the same damage? A koala bear, black bear, and grizzly bear are all exactly the same?

      You keep calling me ignorant yet you're the one denying that Pitbulls have a clear physical advantage in their strengths as an animal. Remove all temperament even and just focus on physical traits.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

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      08-19-2012 01:26 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      Remove all temperament even and just focus on physical traits.

      Ok then based on physical traits there are many breeds larger and physically stronger that you chose to ignore.


      Why suddenly ignore temperament? because you have not been shown over and over and over again their temperament is not to be aggressive towards people?


      So we have a dog smaller and not as strong as many more common breeds that also does not have a temperament of aggression towards people. Clearly this is the one to pin point and claim is the problem.


      As for cats, yes my pit has lost about 6 encounters in the past 2 years to one of my GFs cats, a whopping 6lbs. Dog corners cat out of curiosity, cat gets nervous and claws the crap out of her face, dog lays there doing nothing.. Vicious killer!

    13. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 02:04 PM #63
      ITT: people with zero breed experience throwing opinions around like fact (Chris@revotech )

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      08-19-2012 04:55 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by kimilein View Post
      I, as a member of the public who wants nothing to do with your hobby, should not be expected to understand your hobby because you can't keep your plaything on your own property and under control.
      Agreed. The dog owner bears extra responsibility by virtue of dog ownership. Too bad leash laws aren't aggressively enforced. It'd be a start.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

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      08-19-2012 06:32 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Because some members are too immature to have adult conversations? no sorry
      Your arguments around here are far from mature, ergo I'd hate to be one of your customers that need some support. I wouldn't buy your product based upon some of the dumb**** that you type here. But, you don't see it, so ramble on...

    16. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 06:32 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      My responsibility:
      If I see a pitbull off leash, I have to assume it's an untrained dog that very likely could be dangerous. If it comes at me, I'm going to shoot it.
      That's a great assumption.

      If my pit got off leash and saw you, she'd run straight at you because she adores people. If you shot it because it was 'coming at you', I'd do everything I could to make sure you were banned from ever carrying a gun again, since you clearly would have shown zero ability to assess a threat. I mean, do you shoot minorities if they're running at you on the street?

      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      In the 'burbs, dogs are neutered. In poor urban environments, many aren't. With the pit so popular in that environment, there are jillions of pit mix dogs in cities. Many aren't trained or socialized. Just what the world needs.... tons of untrained dogs with strong jaws on the streets.
      And this is the problem. Trying to ban the breed won't do anything. Even if it was accomplished, these lowlifes would turn to shepherds/rotties/dobies etc. You'd have a bunch of those mixes running around, who by the way, have stronger jaws than pits. BSL's don't work, but owners need to be held accountable for their dogs and spay/neuter programs need to be even more easily accessible than they are now.

      Quote Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
      Actually, it's not a valid point because virtually any large black dog is misreported as being a Labrador Retriever. I have friends with an enormous black pit mix that is classified as "lab". Similarly, any larger short haired yellow dog is reported as a yellow lab. If it's not obviously a German Shepherd or Doberman, it gets called a lab on the hospital police report.
      This is hilariously backwards. Any large dog that bites someone isn't put down as a 'lab' --- it's put down as 'pit bull' or 'pit bull type dog'. It's the exact reason so many bites are disproportionately attributed to pit bulls. Any large somewhat boxy dog that bites someone becomes a 'pit bull'. Pit bull has become a term that basically means big scary mutt. And if someone gets bit by what they think is a pit, it ends up on the news.

      This thread perfectly demonstrates that. A story about a woman killed by 2 presas (basically, spanish mastiff guard dogs) turns into a story about pits, with everyone talking about how the presas look like pits. Those dogs are literally 5x the size of my dog --- yet if a presa killed someone, there's a good chance the media would report it as a pit bull and a call would be made for more BSLs to ban pits.

      No one ever believes my dog is a pit because she's 40 pounds. They always tell me she's "too small", because everyone thinks pits are supposed to be 80-100 pounds, when in fact they're supposed to be 35-65.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-19-2012 at 06:37 PM.

    17. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 06:44 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      I can attest to this. My six month old lab sent me to the hospital after her paw jammed into my eye after running across the hard wood floor and not being able to stop. What a vicious dog she was.

      On the other hand, a buddy of mine just posted on FB that her mother (who had been a staunch pb supporter for many years) had an incident with their pb, a neighbor's pb and the family cat. The family cat didn't stand a chance, the two pb's were put down, and the mother doesn't know what to think anymore.

      You really need to get a separate login for OT.
      Wait, the dogs killed the cat? And that was the situation? And that is supposed to influence someone's opinion of the breed? What would you think if two labs killed a cat?

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      08-19-2012 07:08 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      That's a great assumption.

      If my pit got off leash and saw you, she'd run straight at you because she adores people. If you shot it because it was 'coming at you', I'd do everything I could to make sure you were banned from ever carrying a gun again, since you clearly would have shown zero ability to assess a threat. I mean, do you shoot minorities if they're running at you on the street?
      And you would lose. In no way should a citizen have to risk harm because you're too irresponsible to leash your dog. You're an idiot if you think anyone should have to wait to see if your dog will lick or bite before defending themselves. You have a dog that has the capacity to cause great harm. If you don't want others and your dog to get hurt, then be a responsible dog owner. Using a leash when you're off your property and out of dog parks would be the best idea, followed far behind by training your dog to be more cautious about approaching strangers.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

    19. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 08:23 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      And you would lose. In no way should a citizen have to risk harm because you're too irresponsible to leash your dog. You're an idiot if you think anyone should have to wait to see if your dog will lick or bite before defending themselves.
      Sorry, I missed the part in my conceal and carry course where it says I can discharge a firearm at an off-leash dog who isn't showing aggression because my personal biases tell me that the dog might decide to show aggression. Mind pointing out the part of the law that allows that?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      You have a dog that has the capacity to cause great harm.
      No more so than any other dog. I'm assuming you must think it's ok to shoot any dog that approaches you off-leash? Or just dogs that you decide are "pit bulls"?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      If you don't want others and your dog to get hurt, then be a responsible dog owner.
      Since when am I not a responsible dog owner because I discussed a hypothetical scenario? So i'm irresponsible if I'm in a place that dogs are allowed off leash? I'm irresponsible if her collar breaks? I'm irresponsible if she runs past me as the garage door shuts and she manages to make it out?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      Using a leash when you're off your property and out of dog parks would be the best idea, followed far behind by training your dog to be more cautious about approaching strangers.
      Yes, good luck training an APBT to be weary of strangers.

    20. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 08:28 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Wait, the dogs killed the cat? And that was the situation? And that is supposed to influence someone's opinion of the breed? What would you think if two labs killed a cat?
      Yes, the dogs killed the cat. The situation? The cat was minding its own business when it got attacked on the front stoop of the house. If that doesn't influence your on opinion on the breed, I wouldn't want you and your dogs near me as it would scare the hell out of me that your attitude is - c'est la vie.

      Labs/pit bulls - it doesn't matter. I know both are capable of doing that type of damage. I'm not saying they wouldn't.

    21. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 08:33 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      Yes, the dogs killed the cat. The situation? The cat was minding its own business when it got attacked on the front stoop of the house. If that doesn't influence your on opinion on the breed, I wouldn't want you and your dogs near me as it would scare the hell out of me that your attitude is - c'est la vie.

      Labs/pit bulls - it doesn't matter. I know both are capable of doing that type of damage. I'm not saying they wouldn't.
      Please explain how a dog killing a cat should influence my opinion of an entire breed.

      Edit: There are people who think that aggression towards small animals = aggression towards dogs = aggression towards people. They are all distinctly separate things. A dog that attacks a cat is not a dog who will necessarily attack a dog and is not dog who will necessarily attack a person.

      The problem is that people bunch dogs into categories of either "friendly" or "not friendly". People who think pits should be held to different standards because one attacks a cat are wildly ignorant. On the flip side, pit owners who think they can leave their dogs unattended around small animals because their dog is great with people are wildly ignorant as well as being irresponsible owners --- and terrible for the breed. It sounds like you fall into the former group, while your friend's mom falls into the latter group, no?
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-19-2012 at 08:39 PM.

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      08-19-2012 08:54 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Sorry, I missed the part in my conceal and carry course where it says I can discharge a firearm at an off-leash dog who isn't showing aggression because my personal biases tell me that the dog might decide to show aggression. Mind pointing out the part of the law that allows that?



      No more so than any other dog. I'm assuming you must think it's ok to shoot any dog that approaches you off-leash? Or just dogs that you decide are "pit .
      I think it's a bit obtuse of you to expect people to know whether the strange dog charging at them wants to play or wants to attack. Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. The onus is not on the person being charged at. It's on you to keep the dog from running at people.

      If it gets loose and someone puts it down for charging at them, it's not their fault. Is yours. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

    23. 08-19-2012 09:09 PM #73
      I was attacked by my ex-neighbor's 3 pitbulls in my front yard 10 feet from my front door one morning getting the mail. After trying to fend them off, being almost knocked to the ground and bit in two places on my hand, I pulled my CCW and fired at them point blank. I hit one in the front leg, almost severing it and pistol whipped another on the top of the head when it had my hand in its mouth. Even after being hit, all three kept coming back until my neighbor came out with a metal pitchfork and helped fend them off so I could get inside. One was put down due to leg injuries, the one I hit on the head turned into a paraplegic, with its back legs not working so well. The third was unharmed.

      I would never wish this on anyone. I was just glad that it was not earlier when my wife was taking my two year daughter to daycare. The dog's owners blamed me for not running back into my house fast enough. We went to court and the judge nailed them with huge fines, ($1000 per year per dog to keep them) since they were now deemed dangerous. This was the fourth time their dogs had either chased someone or bit someone. The one that was euthanized had also inhaled their family cat three months prior.

      I hear all these people defending the breed. Most are not taken care of properly by their owners and it transfers to the dogs. But human life is more important than a damn pitbull.

      How many people defending pitbulls have actually been on the receiving end of an attack by a pitbull? And I am not talking your dog playfully charging you...... I mean an unknown dog or group of dogs chasing you and trying to knock you down. It will certainly change your view of pitbulls.

      I have an 80 lb black lab/ weimeriner (sp.) that absolutely scares the hell out of some people walking in my neighborhood. I grew up with dogs and love them. He will not leave the unfenced yard without permission. If he charged someone and they shot him, I would be sad. But that is the way it works. People are not required to give a charging unleashed dog the benefit of the doubt. And the hell with their irresponsible owners also. Control your effing dog!

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      08-19-2012 09:31 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      I think it's a bit obtuse of you to expect people to know whether the strange dog charging at them wants to play or wants to attack. Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. The onus is not on the person being charged at. It's on you to keep the dog from running at people.

      If it gets loose and someone puts it down for charging at them, it's not their fault. Is yours. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
      It's a bit obtuse of you to believe that people who have guns can just fire them off in public because they 'think' something 'might' happen. You get bit? That's a different story. You don't have the right to decide that my dog 'looks' like a threat because of her breed and shoot her.

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      08-19-2012 09:32 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      The problem is that people bunch dogs into categories of either "friendly" or "not friendly". People who think pits should be held to different standards because one attacks a cat are wildly ignorant. On the flip side, pit owners who think they can leave their dogs unattended around small animals because their dog is great with people are wildly ignorant as well as being irresponsible owners --- and terrible for the breed. It sounds like you fall into the former group, while your friend's mom falls into the latter group, no?
      I'm ignorant? Alrighty then. Look, Dog Whisperer, I don't know what to tell ya. When I'm out running or cycling by myself, dogs don't really bother me - as I grew up with a lhasa and a lab. If I see a dog wagging its tail, friendly, I'm fine with them. When I'm out with my kids, it's a different story. I don't really care how friendly a pomeranian is or a lab or a pit. I'd rather be a little cautious.
      Last edited by titleist1976; 08-19-2012 at 09:52 PM.

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