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    Thread: not a lot of good dog press lately

    1. Member GTiTOM's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 09:23 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      And you would lose. In no way should a citizen have to risk harm because you're too irresponsible to leash your dog. You're an idiot if you think anyone should have to wait to see if your dog will lick or bite before defending themselves.
      Sorry, I missed the part in my conceal and carry course where it says I can discharge a firearm at an off-leash dog who isn't showing aggression because my personal biases tell me that the dog might decide to show aggression. Mind pointing out the part of the law that allows that?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      You have a dog that has the capacity to cause great harm.
      No more so than any other dog. I'm assuming you must think it's ok to shoot any dog that approaches you off-leash? Or just dogs that you decide are "pit bulls"?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      If you don't want others and your dog to get hurt, then be a responsible dog owner.
      Since when am I not a responsible dog owner because I discussed a hypothetical scenario? So i'm irresponsible if I'm in a place that dogs are allowed off leash? I'm irresponsible if her collar breaks? I'm irresponsible if she runs past me as the garage door shuts and she manages to make it out?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      Using a leash when you're off your property and out of dog parks would be the best idea, followed far behind by training your dog to be more cautious about approaching strangers.
      Yes, good luck training an APBT to be weary of strangers.

    2. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 09:28 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Wait, the dogs killed the cat? And that was the situation? And that is supposed to influence someone's opinion of the breed? What would you think if two labs killed a cat?
      Yes, the dogs killed the cat. The situation? The cat was minding its own business when it got attacked on the front stoop of the house. If that doesn't influence your on opinion on the breed, I wouldn't want you and your dogs near me as it would scare the hell out of me that your attitude is - c'est la vie.

      Labs/pit bulls - it doesn't matter. I know both are capable of doing that type of damage. I'm not saying they wouldn't.

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      08-19-2012 09:33 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      Yes, the dogs killed the cat. The situation? The cat was minding its own business when it got attacked on the front stoop of the house. If that doesn't influence your on opinion on the breed, I wouldn't want you and your dogs near me as it would scare the hell out of me that your attitude is - c'est la vie.

      Labs/pit bulls - it doesn't matter. I know both are capable of doing that type of damage. I'm not saying they wouldn't.
      Please explain how a dog killing a cat should influence my opinion of an entire breed.

      Edit: There are people who think that aggression towards small animals = aggression towards dogs = aggression towards people. They are all distinctly separate things. A dog that attacks a cat is not a dog who will necessarily attack a dog and is not dog who will necessarily attack a person.

      The problem is that people bunch dogs into categories of either "friendly" or "not friendly". People who think pits should be held to different standards because one attacks a cat are wildly ignorant. On the flip side, pit owners who think they can leave their dogs unattended around small animals because their dog is great with people are wildly ignorant as well as being irresponsible owners --- and terrible for the breed. It sounds like you fall into the former group, while your friend's mom falls into the latter group, no?
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-19-2012 at 09:39 PM.

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      08-19-2012 09:54 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Sorry, I missed the part in my conceal and carry course where it says I can discharge a firearm at an off-leash dog who isn't showing aggression because my personal biases tell me that the dog might decide to show aggression. Mind pointing out the part of the law that allows that?



      No more so than any other dog. I'm assuming you must think it's ok to shoot any dog that approaches you off-leash? Or just dogs that you decide are "pit .
      I think it's a bit obtuse of you to expect people to know whether the strange dog charging at them wants to play or wants to attack. Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. The onus is not on the person being charged at. It's on you to keep the dog from running at people.

      If it gets loose and someone puts it down for charging at them, it's not their fault. Is yours. Hypothetically speaking, of course.

    5. 08-19-2012 10:09 PM #75
      I was attacked by my ex-neighbor's 3 pitbulls in my front yard 10 feet from my front door one morning getting the mail. After trying to fend them off, being almost knocked to the ground and bit in two places on my hand, I pulled my CCW and fired at them point blank. I hit one in the front leg, almost severing it and pistol whipped another on the top of the head when it had my hand in its mouth. Even after being hit, all three kept coming back until my neighbor came out with a metal pitchfork and helped fend them off so I could get inside. One was put down due to leg injuries, the one I hit on the head turned into a paraplegic, with its back legs not working so well. The third was unharmed.

      I would never wish this on anyone. I was just glad that it was not earlier when my wife was taking my two year daughter to daycare. The dog's owners blamed me for not running back into my house fast enough. We went to court and the judge nailed them with huge fines, ($1000 per year per dog to keep them) since they were now deemed dangerous. This was the fourth time their dogs had either chased someone or bit someone. The one that was euthanized had also inhaled their family cat three months prior.

      I hear all these people defending the breed. Most are not taken care of properly by their owners and it transfers to the dogs. But human life is more important than a damn pitbull.

      How many people defending pitbulls have actually been on the receiving end of an attack by a pitbull? And I am not talking your dog playfully charging you...... I mean an unknown dog or group of dogs chasing you and trying to knock you down. It will certainly change your view of pitbulls.

      I have an 80 lb black lab/ weimeriner (sp.) that absolutely scares the hell out of some people walking in my neighborhood. I grew up with dogs and love them. He will not leave the unfenced yard without permission. If he charged someone and they shot him, I would be sad. But that is the way it works. People are not required to give a charging unleashed dog the benefit of the doubt. And the hell with their irresponsible owners also. Control your effing dog!

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      08-19-2012 10:31 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      I think it's a bit obtuse of you to expect people to know whether the strange dog charging at them wants to play or wants to attack. Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. The onus is not on the person being charged at. It's on you to keep the dog from running at people.

      If it gets loose and someone puts it down for charging at them, it's not their fault. Is yours. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
      It's a bit obtuse of you to believe that people who have guns can just fire them off in public because they 'think' something 'might' happen. You get bit? That's a different story. You don't have the right to decide that my dog 'looks' like a threat because of her breed and shoot her.

    7. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 10:32 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      The problem is that people bunch dogs into categories of either "friendly" or "not friendly". People who think pits should be held to different standards because one attacks a cat are wildly ignorant. On the flip side, pit owners who think they can leave their dogs unattended around small animals because their dog is great with people are wildly ignorant as well as being irresponsible owners --- and terrible for the breed. It sounds like you fall into the former group, while your friend's mom falls into the latter group, no?
      I'm ignorant? Alrighty then. Look, Dog Whisperer, I don't know what to tell ya. When I'm out running or cycling by myself, dogs don't really bother me - as I grew up with a lhasa and a lab. If I see a dog wagging its tail, friendly, I'm fine with them. When I'm out with my kids, it's a different story. I don't really care how friendly a pomeranian is or a lab or a pit. I'd rather be a little cautious.
      Last edited by titleist1976; 08-19-2012 at 10:52 PM.

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      08-19-2012 10:38 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by ordpetegti View Post
      I was attacked by my ex-neighbor's 3 pitbulls in my front yard 10 feet from my front door one morning getting the mail. After trying to fend them off, being almost knocked to the ground and bit in two places on my hand, I pulled my CCW and fired at them point blank. I hit one in the front leg, almost severing it and pistol whipped another on the top of the head when it had my hand in its mouth. Even after being hit, all three kept coming back until my neighbor came out with a metal pitchfork and helped fend them off so I could get inside. One was put down due to leg injuries, the one I hit on the head turned into a paraplegic, with its back legs not working so well. The third was unharmed.

      I would never wish this on anyone. I was just glad that it was not earlier when my wife was taking my two year daughter to daycare. The dog's owners blamed me for not running back into my house fast enough. We went to court and the judge nailed them with huge fines, ($1000 per year per dog to keep them) since they were now deemed dangerous. This was the fourth time their dogs had either chased someone or bit someone. The one that was euthanized had also inhaled their family cat three months prior.
      That's a terrible story and no one defending the breed is going to make excuses. But that situation is 100% on the owners, specifically because of the parts I bolded. Unattended dogs, irresponsible owners, unenforced laws. I'm guessing the dogs were intact. Multiple pits, especially of the same sex, is not a good idea (especially if intact). But again, it's not the breed's fault --- if pits were banned, your irresponsible neighbors would be irresponsible with any number of other large and strong dog.

      Quote Originally Posted by ordpetegti View Post
      I hear all these people defending the breed. Most are not taken care of properly by their owners and it transfers to the dogs. But human life is more important than a damn pitbull.
      Who said human life was more important than a dog?

      Quote Originally Posted by ordpetegti View Post
      How many people defending pitbulls have actually been on the receiving end of an attack by a pitbull? And I am not talking your dog playfully charging you...... I mean an unknown dog or group of dogs chasing you and trying to knock you down. It will certainly change your view of pitbulls.
      Why would it?

      Quote Originally Posted by ordpetegti View Post
      I have an 80 lb black lab/ weimeriner (sp.) that absolutely scares the hell out of some people walking in my neighborhood. I grew up with dogs and love them. He will not leave the unfenced yard without permission. If he charged someone and they shot him, I would be sad. But that is the way it works. People are not required to give a charging unleashed dog the benefit of the doubt. And the hell with their irresponsible owners also. Control your effing dog!
      Ironically, I ended up in the hospital after being on the receiving end of a weim bite. Large dogs with big teeth can cause damage regardless of their breed. It's amazing though --- I've had my pit with this weim, and the weim tried to bite someone and they said something like "oh, she's being a little protective!" They came to pet my dog and when I say she's a pit, they stepped away and went back to the weim who just tried to bite them!
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-19-2012 at 10:41 PM.

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      08-19-2012 10:39 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      I'm ignorant? Alrighty then.
      Well, then feel free to answer my actual query:

      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Please explain how a dog killing a cat should influence my opinion of an entire breed.

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      08-19-2012 10:49 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      It's a bit obtuse of you to believe that people who have guns can just fire them off in public because they 'think' something 'might' happen. You get bit? That's a different story. You don't have the right to decide that my dog 'looks' like a threat because of her breed and shoot her.
      When a strange dog is charging you, it's more than reasonable to believe your life is in danger. It's absurd to think people have to wait until they're actually being mauled to shoot a charging dog.

    11. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 10:55 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Well, then feel free to answer my actual query:
      I never said it should influence your opinion on any breed. For this one lady, I think it put a chink in her armor of thinking. That's all.

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      08-19-2012 10:57 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      When a strange dog is charging you, it's more than reasonable to believe your life is in danger. It's absurd to think people have to wait until they're actually being mauled to shoot a charging dog.
      No, it's really not reasonable. Do you realize how rare fatal dog maulings (even serious non-fatal maulings) are? Dogs run at people all the time --- a loud yell or a hand clap will get them to stop 99% of the time. If your first instinct is to get your gun when you see a dog running towards you, then you really shouldn't be carrying a gun.

      And sorry, but again, as a gun owner with a conceal and carry license, I can't remember anywhere in any of the classroom/training that I had to go through that said I had the right to preemptively stop potentially dangerous situations because I fear that something might happen --- whether with people or pets.

      "Ya, the dog was running and I wasn't sure if it was going to kill me or wanted me to throw the ball" isn't much different than "Ya, that guy was running at me and I wasn't sure if he was going to rob me or was out for a jog".
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-19-2012 at 11:00 PM.

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      08-19-2012 10:59 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      I never said it should influence your opinion on any breed. For this one lady, I think it put a chink in her armor of thinking. That's all.
      Actually, you did:

      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      The cat was minding its own business when it got attacked on the front stoop of the house. If that doesn't influence your on opinion on the breed, I wouldn't want you and your dogs near me as it would scare the hell out of me that your attitude is - c'est la vie.
      Again, why should a dog killing a cat influence my opinion of a breed? And why would the fact that I don't think a dog killing a cat is that big of a deal influence you to stay away from my dog?

    14. Member titleist1976's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 11:11 PM #84
      Would it not bother you if your dog attacked your cat? Or would you chalk it up to a one off instance? Would you put that dog down? Get that same breed over and over again?

      To answer your question: I think it's simple human nature to think that way. Ignorance is different.

    15. 08-19-2012 11:13 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      I think it's a bit obtuse of you to expect people to know whether the strange dog charging at them wants to play or wants to attack. Sometimes you can tell, sometimes you can't. The onus is not on the person being charged at. It's on you to keep the dog from running at people.

      If it gets loose and someone puts it down for charging at them, it's not their fault. Is yours. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
      Granted, you have a point, but it is frustrating that there are people willing to shoot an otherwise friendly dog because they are too stupid to know the very different body language of an aggressive stance vs a curios or playful one.

      As someone said earlier, it would be great if the public were educatEd when it came to this and not ok with staying ignorant, but we all know that is t going to happen.
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      08-19-2012 11:31 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      Would it not bother you if your dog attacked your cat? Or would you chalk it up to a one off instance? Would you put that dog down? Get that same breed over and over again?
      Would i put my dog down if it attacked a cat? Are you serious? Why would I do that? Would you put down your cat if it killed a bird? I don't let my dog near cats unsupervised for the simple reason that it's a dog --- just like if i had a cat, I wouldn't get a pet rat and let it play unsupervised.

      I'm still unclear why you think dogs of any breed killing a cat is any indicator of anything besides it being a dog.

      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      To answer your question: I think it's simple human nature to think that way. Ignorance is different.
      Ignorance means to be in a state of being uninformed. If you think that if a dog kills a cat that it means that it's a threat to people, then you are uninformed. if you think that prey drive = dog aggression = human aggression, then you uninformed. If you think a dog should be put down because it kills a cat, then I really don't know what to say to you. But either way, by definition, you are ignorant on the topic.

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      08-19-2012 11:32 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Sorry, I missed the part in my conceal and carry course where it says I can discharge a firearm at an off-leash dog who isn't showing aggression because my personal biases tell me that the dog might decide to show aggression. Mind pointing out the part of the law that allows that?
      Put that in front of a jury, and they'd vote against the pit bull that was running at someone every time, especially when their owner was so undisciplined and irresponsible as to let their pit bull run unleashed.

      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      No more so than any other dog. I'm assuming you must think it's ok to shoot any dog that approaches you off-leash? Or just dogs that you decide are "pit bulls"?
      Congratulations on the dumbest statement on TCL today. Yeah, a lhasa apso has the same capacity to cause harm as a pit bull. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. For your sake, I'm going to assume you're not actually that dumb, and simply failed to apprehend what was said, and thought my statement had to do with the demeanor of the dog.





      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Since when am I not a responsible dog owner because I discussed a hypothetical scenario? So i'm irresponsible if I'm in a place that dogs are allowed off leash?
      Can you actually be this dumb? The next comment of mine that you quoted referred to a dog part.

      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      I'm irresponsible if her collar breaks? I'm irresponsible if she runs past me as the garage door shuts and she manages to make it out?
      If I have a loaded gun, which didn't have the safety on and it goes off, am I responsible?

      It's your dog. If you can't manage to properly secure your dog, you shouldn't have it.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

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      08-19-2012 11:33 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      When a strange dog is charging you, it's more than reasonable to believe your life is in danger. It's absurd to think people have to wait until they're actually being mauled to shoot a charging dog.
      Absurdity is his special of the day.
      Quote Originally Posted by apizzaparty View Post
      never thought once to use my lefty for the brake. sorry in my opinion it is dumb.

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      08-19-2012 11:33 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by crannky View Post
      Granted, you have a point, but it is frustrating that there are people willing to shoot an otherwise friendly dog because they are too stupid to know the very different body language of an aggressive stance vs a curios or playful one.

      As someone said earlier, it would be great if the public were educatEd when it came to this and not ok with staying ignorant, but we all know that is t going to happen.
      Exactly. I'm not saying that someone shouldn't be allowed to shoot a dog that's actually attacking them. But if you are walking around with a gun and making such baseless and uneducated decisions like "dog running = maybe attacking = must shoot", then you shouldn't have a gun.

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      08-19-2012 11:34 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      No, it's really not reasonable. Do you realize how rare fatal dog maulings (even serious non-fatal maulings) are? Dogs run at people all the time --- a loud yell or a hand clap will get them to stop 99% of the time. If your first instinct is to get your gun when you see a dog running towards you, then you really shouldn't be carrying a gun.

      And sorry, but again, as a gun owner with a conceal and carry license, I can't remember anywhere in any of the classroom/training that I had to go through that said I had the right to preemptively stop potentially dangerous situations because I fear that something might happen --- whether with people or pets.

      "Ya, the dog was running and I wasn't sure if it was going to kill me or wanted me to throw the ball" isn't much different than "Ya, that guy was running at me and I wasn't sure if he was going to rob me or was out for a jog".
      So, as a gun owner, if your life is in danger, you are not allowed to use your weapon to stop the threat? And a charging dog, sprinting directly at you, is not a threat?

      And I'm not talking about a dog running = possibly attacking. Note the language I've consistently used here - charging directly at you.

      Edit - To be fair, GeoffD's language was "if it comes at me," which can be interpreted differently. That could mean frollicking, or it could mean charging. I would think that, if he's saying he would shoot it, he's talking about it hypothetically charging him.
      Last edited by Big M; 08-19-2012 at 11:44 PM.

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      08-19-2012 11:44 PM #91
      For the sake of trying to have a civil discussion, I'll ignore your ad hominems where you repeatedly call me dumb.

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      Put that in front of a jury, and they'd vote against the pit bull that was running at someone every time, especially when their owner was so undisciplined and irresponsible as to let their pit bull run unleashed.
      Again, good job assuming that off-leash = irresponsible. I guess there are no places near you where unleashed dogs are ok?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      Congratulations on the dumbest statement on TCL today. Yeah, a lhasa apso has the same capacity to cause harm as a pit bull. .
      Sorry I didn't caveat that enough for you. I'll try again. "No more so than any other dog...of similar size and stature". Yes, my dog could do more damage than a lhasa --- just like a 45 pound terrier-boxer mix/mutt is capable of causing more damage than a lhasa. So should we ban all large breed dogs? Or should people just be able to shoot at any big dog they perceive might be capable of becoming a threat?

      Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
      If I have a loaded gun, which didn't have the safety on and it goes off, am I responsible?

      It's your dog. If you can't manage to properly secure your dog, you shouldn't have it.
      Mistakes happen --- show me a dog owner who's never had a dog get out or get off leash and I'll show you someone who's never actually owned a dog. Of course, you're the guy in the other thread about the dog who got shot that said that it should have been securely tied to the guy having a seizure. Which is just laughably absurd

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      08-19-2012 11:44 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Ignorance means to be in a state of being uninformed. If you think that if a dog kills a cat that it means that it's a threat to people, then you are uninformed. if you think that prey drive = dog aggression = human aggression, then you uninformed. If you think a dog should be put down because it kills a cat, then I really don't know what to say to you. But either way, by definition, you are ignorant on the topic.
      I'm pretty sure we had this conversation on a different board. Well most of us did, I'm not sure if you were around for it. What part of: I grew up with small breeds and large breeds - are you not understanding?

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      08-19-2012 11:49 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      So, as a gun owner, if your life is in danger, you are not allowed to use your weapon to stop the threat?
      Sure. If my life is in danger. I've been charged by lots of dogs under lots of different circumstances, and not once did I think my life was in danger. It's absurd to say that a dog that hasn't even bitten you (never mind gotten within 10 feet of you) is endangering your life.

      But hey, I mean, as a gun owner, I can shoot a guy walking on my property because he might turn out to be there to kill me right? Oh, what's that, he worked for the electric company and was reading my meter? And now I'm going to jail? So in other words, I can't just make decisions based on poor information and fire off my gun and expect to get away with it?

      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      And a charging dog, sprinting directly at you, is not a threat?
      That's my point. A dog sprinting directly at you is not inherently a threat. In fact, most of the time it's not. And the vast majority of the time, even if it is being aggressive, a loud yell and a loud clap is all you need to get it to turn tail 15 feet from you.

      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      And I'm not talking about a dog running = possibly attacking. Note the language I've consistently used here - charging directly at you.
      How is charging different from sprinting different from frollicking?


      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post

      Edit - To be fair, GeoffD's language was "if it comes at me," which can be interpreted differently. That could mean frollicking, or it could mean charging. I would think that, if he's saying he would shoot it, he's talking about it hypothetically charging him.
      That's my entire point. People are saying that if a pit is running towards them, they're not going to wait to see if it's going to attack or not. If it's running at them, they're going to shoot it. Which is insanity.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-19-2012 at 11:54 PM.

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      08-19-2012 11:52 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      I'm pretty sure we had this conversation on a different board. Well most of us did, I'm not sure if you were around for it. What part of: I grew up with small breeds and large breeds - are you not understanding?
      What does that have to do with anything? When did I ever claim you didn't grow up with large and small dogs?

      I'm still waiting for you to explain why a dog killing a cat should have any effect on anyone's opinion on any breed. You haven't actually answered that.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-20-2012 at 12:12 AM.

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      08-20-2012 12:00 AM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Sure. If my life is in danger. I've been charged by lots of dogs under lots of different circumstances, and not once did I think my life was in danger. It's absurd to say that a dog that hasn't even bitten you (never mind gotten within 10 feet of you) is endangering your life.
      A big enough dog with the intention of attacking you? Sure it is. Maybe you're just more comfortable around big dogs, but most humans would not win a fight if the dog had it's mind made up to take you out.

      And the vast majority of the time, even if it is being aggressive, a loud yell and a loud clap is all you need to get it to turn tail 15 feet from you.
      Great. People should stomp their feet and yell as they draw their guns. But if that doesn't work, shoot BEFORE the dog bites.

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      08-20-2012 12:07 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      A big enough dog with the intention of attacking you? Sure it is. Maybe you're just more comfortable around big dogs, but most humans would not win a fight if the dog had it's mind made up to take you out.
      Right, so you should just be able to shoot any dog if you're not sure? If you think that maybe it might be thinking about attacking you, you should just be able to fire away?

      Again, this is back to my original response: if someone shot MY dog because they THOUGHT she was attacking, they would be absolutely, 100% wrong. And if they are that bad at making decisions, they shouldn't have a gun. I'm not talking about actually being attacked by a dog and legitimately needing to defend your life.

      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      Great. People should stomp their feet and yell as they draw their guns. But if that doesn't work, shoot BEFORE the dog bites.
      Honestly, I'd shoot after getting bit. Because I wouldn't want to be wrong in that situation and shoot someone's pet that was running towards me to play.

      Again, I'm not saying someone shouldn't be able to defend themselves against a dog attacking them. I'm saying that someone shouldn't be allowed to assume that any dog running towards them is actually attacking them. Just like owning a pit comes with extra responsibilities, so does owning a gun --- and one of those responsibilities is being 100% sure that you're justified in firing. And sorry, but "well, it was a pit bull and it was off leash" is not a justification.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-20-2012 at 12:11 AM.

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      08-20-2012 12:16 AM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      What does that have to do with anything?

      I'm still waiting for you to explain why a dog killing a cat should have any effect on anyone's opinion on any breed. You haven't actually answered that.
      Wait, how much education do you want me to have on any one breed? Seriously. How much time do I need to spend educating myself when nothing matters when you can't tell who raised the dog?

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      08-20-2012 12:18 AM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      Wait, how much education do you want me to have on any one breed? Seriously. How much time do I need to spend educating myself when nothing matters when you can't tell who raised the dog?
      Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? I never said anything about you educating yourself or anything about who raised a dog. I ask you a question, and you reply with things that I never asked. You've done that 3 or 4 times now (after saying that what you said wasn't what you actually said).

      I'm just waiting for you to explain the logic of why a dog killing a cat should make me rethink an entire breed? I'm honestly wondering why a dog killing a cat is anything more than a dog being a dog? Do you honestly think that prey drive and going after smaller animals of other species is a trait that's unique to pit bulls? Or that pits are the only dogs that will attack cats?

      So I'll try again: Why should a dog killing a cat make me rethink an entire breed of dog? It's not a rhetorical question --- I'd appreciate a direct answer, since you posted that the situation should have that effect on me.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-20-2012 at 12:21 AM.

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      08-20-2012 12:19 AM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Right, so you should just be able to shoot any dog if you're not sure? If you think that maybe it might be thinking about attacking you, you should just be able to fire away?
      I say that a charging dog has declared it's intent by charging at you.

      I was going to get some youtube clips to show the difference between charging and frollicking, but it's after 11, and I'm kinda done with restating my point here.

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      08-20-2012 12:28 AM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Big M View Post
      I say that a charging dog has declared it's intent by charging at you.

      I was going to get some youtube clips to show the difference between charging and frollicking, but it's after 11, and I'm kinda done with restating my point here.
      Here's a youtube vid for you. This is the type of situation I'm talking about in this vid, of my dog and a friend's dog at the beach:



      If you edited it in voices of people yelling "Ohmigod, someone help! she's going to kill him!" or "shoot him! shoot him!", then people would say this was an attack. Posters in this thread would literally say things like "if that pit was chasing my dog, I wouldn't have taken the chance --- i would have shot it before it snapped".

      But clearly, as I've been trying to say, a dog chasing or running towards someone/something isn't inherently being aggressive -- and most of the time it's probably not.

      Again, I'm not talking about being 100% certain that you're getting attacked. I'm talking about the people saying "Well, I don't know how to tell if a dog's attacking or not, so I'm going to assume it's attacking and shoot it".


      And before the leash nazi shows up, this is not only a private beach, it was off-season and there were literally no other people besides us as far as the eye could see in either direction.
      Last edited by GTiTOM; 08-20-2012 at 12:31 AM.

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      08-20-2012 12:54 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? I never said anything about you educating yourself or anything about who raised a dog. I ask you a question, and you reply with things that I never asked. You've done that 3 or 4 times now (after saying that what you said wasn't what you actually said).
      I think I answered your question a while back when I said it's simple human nature. And, again, you called me ignorant. You're more aggressive than some of the Chihuahua's I've been around.

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      08-20-2012 01:15 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      I think I answered your question a while back when I said it's simple human nature. And, again, you called me ignorant. You're more aggressive than some of the Chihuahua's I've been around.
      I said People who have the view that prey drive = dog aggression = human aggression are ignorant. And they are. Either you're in that group or you're not. I've offered you multiple chances to explain your point of view to show that you aren't ignorant on this topic (and again, not saying ignorant as an insult - it's just not knowing the truth/facts, which you apparently don't).

      So to be clear, your answer is that it's human nature to judge an entire breed based one dogs proclivity to attack....cats? And you wouldn't want to be near my dog because I don't think it's necessarily concerning that a dog killed a cat?

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      08-20-2012 01:19 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by GTiTOM View Post
      So to be clear, your answer is that it's human nature to judge an entire breed based one dogs proclivity to attack....cats? And you wouldn't want to be near my dog because I don't think it's necessarily concerning that a dog killed a cat?
      When I originally typed that, I had "kid" in there but didn't want anyone to think that I'm screaming "What about the children?!" because I'm not that type of person. You mentioned that you're okay with getting bit before killing a dog, but I'm just not willing to put myself or kids in that position to have to make that choice. I head it off before it happens. Like I said, I put my bike between the kids and the dog.

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      08-20-2012 01:42 AM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by titleist1976 View Post
      When I originally typed that, I had "kid" in there but didn't want anyone to think that I'm screaming "What about the children?!" because I'm not that type of person. You mentioned that you're okay with getting bit before killing a dog, but I'm just not willing to put myself or kids in that position to have to make that choice. I head it off before it happens. Like I said, I put my bike between the kids and the dog.
      Again, doesn't answer the question.

      What does any of what you just typed have to do with a dog killing a cat?

    35. 08-20-2012 08:40 AM #105
      When I clapped and stomped and yelled, they charged me with their heads down, barking and growling. The noise certainly did not deter them at all. Hell, being hit on the head and shot with a .45 only stopped them for about 15
      Seconds before they came back. The only thing that stopped them was my neighbors coming out to help me.

      I said that human life is more important then a dogs life.

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