So... Windows 8 went RTM and TechNet. Anybody braved it yet?

[theevilshiftkey]

Might have been there all week but I just noticed Win8 on TechNet today. I figure I'll give it a few weeks to let other people be the guinnea pigs first. That and there's nothing at all interesting about it versus Win7. Meh.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

I don't see why Win8 will be popular at all... it's not a Desktop OS in any regard IMO. I haven't tried it, but what I've read and see about it it is enough for me to know I won't even bother with trying or buying it.

[Minker17]

Yes, I installed it on a slave drive. It's fine, but until desktop apps are rewritten for windows 8, I'm going to be spending a lot of time on the desktop. Which makes the upgrade kind of unnecessary. I use dual monitors at work and it also is a bummer because you can't do one screen desktop and one metro.

I think it will be fine for laptops and tablets.

[Vision33r]

I have the Ent edition installed and we actually purchased a Dell touchscreen monitor just for the sake of this eval.

Installed very quickly and was ready in under 20mins. Signing in is annoying, they try to force you to create a Microsoft Online login or you can skip it and setup a local acct.

Once it's up, I noticed atleast 3 unknown devices device and searching I could not find drivers for them. No biggie they are probably management devices.

Use it for about couple of hours on Friday just to get a feel for it in the business setting.

Luckily I have dual display with the touchscreen LCD as the main and 2nd display as extended. I am able to see both Metro UI and desktop side by side.

In order for Win8 to work for businesses, a 2nd screen is mandatory. Since Metro takes over the whole screen, you need the 2nd LCD to multi-task.

The touchscreen works really well but I can't imagine using touch over mouse+kbd in a work setting.

I'm sure many folks who hate opening apps in full screen is gonna hate Win8 and just opening the Desktop to run app is not good enough.

Really, where is the Metro disable switch? After awhile you either love it or hate it.

[theevilshiftkey]

I don't see why Win8 will be popular at all... it's not a Desktop OS in any regard IMO.

Well, it's designed to pull double duty as a desktop AND tablet OS. Theoretically you'll use the traditional desktop mode on a traditional desktop or laptop computer... and Metro on tablets.

It could actually work for MS, only time will tell. I can totally imagine Joe Consumer shopping at Best Buy this fall and being pushed towards a Win8 powered tablet via the simple selling point that it "runs a full version of Windows and can run all your favorite apps". Good luck getting QuickBooks and Call of Duty to run on any other tablet. I guess we'll see. Netbooks looked like they were on fire when they finally took hold but then died off fast. They also promised the "full" PC experience in a portable and cheap format.

Either way I think MS *HAD* to go this route, it's just the natural progression of personal computing.

[Vision33r]

Well, it's designed to pull double duty as a desktop AND tablet OS. Theoretically you'll use the traditional desktop mode on a traditional desktop or laptop computer... and Metro on tablets.

It could actually work for MS, only time will tell. I can totally imagine Joe Consumer shopping at Best Buy this fall and being pushed towards a Win8 powered tablet via the simple selling point that it "runs a full version of Windows and can run all your favorite apps". Good luck getting QuickBooks and Call of Duty to run on any other tablet. I guess we'll see. Netbooks looked like they were on fire when they finally took hold but then died off fast. They also promised the "full" PC experience in a portable and cheap format.

Either way I think MS *HAD* to go this route, it's just the natural progression of personal computing.

And you think Apple didn't try this before rolling out iPad running iOS? There are companies that made Macbooks converted into tablets before being wiped out by the iPad.

The last Windows XP Tablet edition OS arguably had everything needed for tablet computing and yes you can run Quickbooks and latest games provided you got the hardware.

That's where the problem starts, the price for a decent Windows x86 tablet is $1700 at the time for a Lenovo X60S Tablet.

Now the Windows Surface tablet rumored to start at $200 but here's the kicker. You cannot run x86 apps and the price of the cheapest x86 Win8 tablet may start at $599.

I don't think think they got a winner here, it's a very poorly devised strategy to conquer the tablet and desktop market with a single OS.

[BRealistic]

If you but a new PC right now with the 'upgrade to windows 8 for 15 bucks' deal, could you install a second drive install the OEM 7 then upgrade just one of the drives?

[theevilshiftkey]

And you think Apple didn't try this before rolling out iPad running iOS? There are companies that made Macbooks converted into tablets before being wiped out by the iPad.

You can't compare a hacked up $2500 laptop to a $500 iPad. The only similarity is that they both originally came from Apple and they both use electricity.

...the price of the cheapest x86 Win8 tablet may start at $599.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to see the benefit of a full PC OS for "just" $100 extra over a decked out iPad, especially if you start throwing specs numbers around that consumers dont' quite understand ($700 iPad has 64GB while $700 tablet PC has 500GB...etc... think about that from the uneducated consumer perspective). I'm not saying that everybody will see it that way, I'm just saying that it's not automatically a loser.

Also don't get me wrong, I think it will be way easier for MS to fail in this experiment than to succeed. It's all about the end user experience and since none of us have lived with a Win8 tablet none of us can *really* say it's not good (or bad). It will be all about the execution and the developer support (apps).

[Vision33r]

I see the upsides to MS doing this but it's the same as the Obamacare trying to force an issue instead of giving people a choice. They will end up pissing off a lot of developers and OEMs trying to make their new OS platform competitive without partnerships.

Take OSX Mountain Lion, the Dashboard looks almost like the iPad but you can turn it off.

Not only is Metro is a mess, IE10 is ugly. Sure they made it easier for fingers but Safari and Chrome on tablets look way better. There are so much wasted real estates with Metro on a high res LCD, I'm sure people with eye problems will love it.

If MS pisses off the desktop users, why would they want to buy a Win8 tablet?

[BRealistic]

I see the upsides to MS doing this but it's the same as the Obamacare trying to force an issue instead of giving people a choice.

Yeah- people should have the choice to continue NOT to have health insurance.....

They will end up pissing off a lot of developers and OEMs trying to make their new OS platform competitive without partnerships.

Take OSX Mountain Lion, the Dashboard looks almost like the iPad but you can turn it off.

Not only is Metro is a mess, IE10 is ugly. Sure they made it easier for fingers but Safari and Chrome on tablets look way better. There are so much wasted real estates with Metro on a high res LCD, I'm sure people with eye problems will love it.

If MS pisses off the desktop users, why would they want to buy a Win8 tablet?

It almost makes you wonder if Microsoft knows that any new Windows OS that follows a wildly successful Windows OS will be poorly received- so they just push new ideas that they can use on the following OS that people will like.

[BRealistic]

I don't see why Win8 will be popular at all... it's not a Desktop OS in any regard IMO. I haven't tried it, but what I've read and see about it it is enough for me to know I won't even bother with trying or buying it.[img]http://www.**************/ht7.jpg[/img][img]http://www.**************/jh88.jpg[/img][img]http://www.**************/dh5.jpg[/img]

I suspect just like with Vista and XP- new PCs will be sold with the "downgrade to Windows 7 for free" option.

And your hotlinks don't work fwiw.

[Egilbe]

I suspect just like with Vista and XP- new PCs will be sold with the "downgrade to Windows 7 for free" option.

And your hotlinks don't work fwiw.

it's a bot. You can tell by looking at all it's posts between 8:42 and 8:45 in several different forums and sub forums and the random comments that don't pertain to anything in the thread. Some of the threads it posted in are several pages long

[Vision33r]

It almost makes you wonder if Microsoft knows that any new Windows OS that follows a wildly successful Windows OS will be poorly received- so they just push new ideas that they can use on the following OS that people will like.

If you read the interview with Ray Ozzie: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...post-pc-world/

He makes a lot of good points, he was hired by Bill and Steve to fix what's wrong with MS during the 90s and he did do that but he still bud heads with some there which made him leave.

I don't like MS current direction, they got a lot of good people working there but being mislead by Ballmer and those who don't play with MS's core strength.

They got some solid technology behind Win8 and Server 2012 but it's being sugar coated by Metro in order to help further their agenda which is to prop up the unpopular Windows Phone.

[BRealistic]

If you read the interview with Ray Ozzie: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57...post-pc-world/

He makes a lot of good points, he was hired by Bill and Steve to fix what's wrong with MS during the 90s and he did do that but he still bud heads with some there which made him leave.

I don't like MS current direction, they got a lot of good people working there but being mislead by Ballmer and those who don't play with MS's core strength.

They got some solid technology behind Win8 and Server 2012 but it's being sugar coated by Metro in order to help further their agenda which is to prop up the unpopular Windows Phone.

I forgot about the windows phone.....

Maybe they should make an Xbox phone?

[Slipstream]

They got some solid technology behind Win8 and Server 2012 but it's being sugar coated by Metro in order to help further their agenda which is to prop up the unpopular Windows Phone.

It isn't popular because none of the carriers are pushing it. They're either (a) in bed with Google and the Android handset OEMs (Verizon/USCellular), or (b) they're in over their heads on deals with Apple (Sprint?). And from the OEM side of things, what motivation do they have to crank out WP7 handsets when the general public is eating up Android phones as fast as they can be cranked out? VZW has one Windows Phone device, and it's like 18 years old. HTC has put out a handful, and Nokia two in the US.

I think you'll see a big shift once WP8 rolls out, and even more so when Verizon finally gets on board. While I'm not sure if Windows 8 is going to be particularly popular on desktops, I think people will start to take notice when Nokia finally cranks out some iPhone competitors on VZW and AT&T (if they don't manage to go tits-up first).

[Big Morgan]

...do one screen desktop and one metro.

THAT would be interesting.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Well, it's designed to pull double duty as a desktop AND tablet OS. Theoretically you'll use the traditional desktop mode on a traditional desktop or laptop computer... and Metro on tablets.

It could actually work for MS, only time will tell. I can totally imagine Joe Consumer shopping at Best Buy this fall and being pushed towards a Win8 powered tablet via the simple selling point that it "runs a full version of Windows and can run all your favorite apps". Good luck getting QuickBooks and Call of Duty to run on any other tablet. I guess we'll see. Netbooks looked like they were on fire when they finally took hold but then died off fast. They also promised the "full" PC experience in a portable and cheap format.

Either way I think MS *HAD* to go this route, it's just the natural progression of personal computing.

let me clear up what I was trying to say.

I don't want a mishmash table/desktop OS on my full blown PC.

I want a desktop OS. I don't want a touchscreen interface. I want to use a mouse/trackpad and keyboard. I don't want themes, or complicated ways to do simple tasks, I want to be able to use all the shortcuts as per usual.

Metro has no place on a PC. From what I've heard the "desktop" doesn't even have the same functionality as W7 (or any other previous version). Why would I want this?

[Power5]

Have not tried 8 yet, but win7 works great on my touchscreen. Not perfect but much better than any previous version. MS is betting that the dumber and dumber we get the less we will be able to use different UI. That is why metro will be on all devices. So, for the dumb people, they can see it on their phone and desktop and tablet. For the more advanced, they would use the desktop environment to launch from. My windows phone allows shortcuts. You just pin it to the metro start. Same as when you put shortcuts on your win7 desktop. Not sure where the complication comes from. What simple tasks do you envision being complicated? Desktop mode looks very similar to win7 to me.

I think MS needs to settle on a UI for a while. Every version looks pretty different from the last. OSX has not changed in many years and users know where things are and what they should look like. Sounds like they may be on the right track with windows phone 8 since it will still look very similar to windows phone 7 just be new under the hood. If you want a windows phone, unfortunately you are stuck with ATT if you want diversity. Not sure how ATT is the only carrier that has many choices of every platform.

[theevilshiftkey]

I've been running Win8 in a VM for a few days now, so if you have any specific questions feel free to ask and I'll let you know.

Basically instead of the Win7 Start menu that takes up a sliver of the screen, the Win8 "Start menu" takes up the whole screen and gets called Metro. THAT'S IT folks. Don't over-think this. Some tablet apps will be designed to use a new Metro style interface, but that's their choise. All your old apps will continue uneffected.

As far as the traditional desktop goes I don't see any difference besides the lack of the old Start button. Everything else is identical to Win7. Control Panel is identical with a few new icons for the new tricks.

To whoever said they thought IE10 was ugly, who cares what their web browser looks like?? When I'm using a web browser I'm using it to look at porn or kitty videos, not the 1% of the screen that the browser controls are using. It's like saying that a car sucks because the headliner is ugly and it ruins your view of the road.

[Vision33r]

There are apps out there that instantly kills Metro on login and opens the desktop and changes to the classic start menu.



So, what we end up getting is a non-Aero Win7 like desktop with a neutered retro Start Menu.

If this is the solution for Win8 on desktop, it's DOA for many folks and only the faithful and savvy folks will use it this way.

Main problem with Metro on Desktop:

- multi-tasking becomes a labor intensive task.
- Waste of real estate, when metro apps and tiles replaces your shortcuts and file drops
- Time consuming to manage

I wouldn't mind having Metro as my dashboard for my HTPC with Kinect but on the Desktop with kbd/mouse it is a big mess.

[BRealistic]

Ok.
Does Windows 8 have any performance advantages over 7?
Can handle more ram, or higher but.. Or something anything?


Is it possible this is the future Xbox 3's operating system?..
Microsoft is possibly trying to merger all operating systems into one... And if the OS can be customized to act like 7 or Xbox interface, then I guess that makes sense.

[theevilshiftkey]

Does Windows 8 have any performance advantages over 7?

Yes

Can handle more ram, or higher but.. Or something anything?

Um... what? Can you rephrase that int he form of a question?

I don't want to sounds like a Win8 evangelist because at this moment I quite hate it. However like all new things you get used to the way they're supposed to work over time and your perception changes. At least that's what I'm hoping, because DAMN I hate it right now. This is the first time since Windows 95 was released that there's been a real change in the GUI, and it's so major that you have to find someone to tell you how to simply turn your computer off.

[Vision33r]

Benchmarks and comparison:

http://www.techspot.com/review/561-w...ws7/page2.html




Chrome and Firefox is just killing IE right now.


The performance from 8 over 7 is minimal and with the right hardware it's irrelevant. On my Core i7 overclocked box and a GTX 670 video card, 512GB SSD everything runs fast on Win7 and Win8 but it just looks way better with Aero on Win7 than this Win8 with Metro and flat colors.

If you have a very tweaked out Win7 box, Win8 has zero performance advantage over it right now.

What MS will do is play the heavy hand which is to force hardware vendors to release only win8 drivers for certain hardware and force people to upgrade.

I don't want to sounds like a Win8 evangelist because at this moment I quite hate it. However like all new things you get used to the way they're supposed to work over time and your perception changes. At least that's what I'm hoping, because DAMN I hate it right now. This is the first time since Windows 95 was released that there's been a real change in the GUI, and it's so major that you have to find someone to tell you how to simply turn your computer off.

It's called the power button like tablets you just push the power button or let it go to sleep on it's own. Always on.

The OS has some serious workflow flaws that I know it will drive some people nuts. Say you have Metro App and a desktop app running, how do you switch between the two? You basically have to get out of desktop and then launch the app again. Task manager does not switch Metro and Desktop App.

[GreenandChrome]

Benchmarks and comparison:

Chrome and Firefox is just killing IE right now.


The performance from 8 over 7 is minimal and with the right hardware it's irrelevant. On my Core i7 overclocked box and a GTX 670 video card, 512GB SSD everything runs fast on Win7 and Win8 but it just looks way better with Aero on Win7 than this Win8 with Metro and flat colors.

If you have a very tweaked out Win7 box, Win8 has zero performance advantage over it right now.

People who care about benchmarks and performance, and actually understand the gains/losses are the minor minority. The majority of users will take the performance marketing and word of mouth for face value.

The average user (and majority of the market) won't have overclocked PCs, SSDs on their 4-year old PC, etc. The success/failure of the OS is hardly determined by the folks that have equipment like you.

Folks that are on message boards like this also do not make up the majority. When Win8 hits Facebook, then take a look at the average user.

[theevilshiftkey]

The performance from 8 over 7 is minimal and with the right hardware it's irrelevant.

Depending on your definition of "right" the difference can be very relevant. On an old computer a 1% speed improvement can be measurable in seconds, while on a new hotrod it would be irrelavent. Not every computer is top of the line.

Say you have Metro App and a desktop app running, how do you switch between the two? You basically have to get out of desktop and then launch the app again. Task manager does not switch Metro and Desktop App.

This is incorrect, you must be thinking of a beta version. Both Task Manager and Alt+Tab work as you would expect them to and there's no difference between the apps, nor do you have to leave/enter desktop/Metro in between. As far as task management goes the only thing I don't like is that Metro apps don't show on the desktop taskbar. Of course there is no taskbar at all for Metro apps. But seriously Metro is for tablets and nobody on a desktop system is going to use Metro apps in the first place so it's a non-issue. Any app worth buying will have both a Metro version and a desktop version so you don't have to worry about it.

[Power5]

Depending on your definition of "right" the difference can be very relevant. On an old computer a 1% speed improvement can be measurable in seconds, while on a new hotrod it would be irrelavent. Not every computer is top of the line.



This is incorrect, you must be thinking of a beta version. Both Task Manager and Alt+Tab work as you would expect them to and there's no difference between the apps, nor do you have to leave/enter desktop/Metro in between. As far as task management goes the only thing I don't like is that Metro apps don't show on the desktop taskbar. Of course there is no taskbar at all for Metro apps. But seriously Metro is for tablets and nobody on a desktop system is going to use Metro apps in the first place so it's a non-issue. Any app worth buying will have both a Metro version and a desktop version so you don't have to worry about it.

What is the difference between metro apps and desktop programs? Are we talking that metro apps are just like small niche apps? Say something like "around me" or "local scout"? Something that could be done on BING, but someone came up with an app to make it easier. Or would say excel be a metro app since it will be released for surface tablets at some point if not at their launch. So, you could have metro excel and desktop excel? If metro is not needed on a desktop/laptop, why is it even there?

Few things I have seen in videos I do not like is:

Unlock - Do you really have to click and drag up like I do with my phone? Why wouldn't a simple click or even double click be enough?
Power off - why would you put this in the settings?
Programs - Where are they in desktop if there is not a shortcut?


Found this start menu regedit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CAuv...feature=fvwrel


Not sure if this works with the new RTM version or not.

Quick overview of win8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh5Jj...eature=related

[NOTORIOUS VR]

OMG, that makes me want to kill babies.

If this actually becomes mainstream I will move away from Windows to linux or OS X to get a proper desktop OS back in my hands. I will definitely be holding on to Win7 for a long time at this point

[Power5]

fAvorite thing about my windows phone is how everything seems to be accessible from single places. Photos are all available in the pictures app. Even pictures that are not on my phone at all. everything about friends is in one place. Dont have to open flickr, fb, twitter, email...

[Vision33r]

People who care about benchmarks and performance, and actually understand the gains/losses are the minor minority. The majority of users will take the performance marketing and word of mouth for face value.

The average user (and majority of the market) won't have overclocked PCs, SSDs on their 4-year old PC, etc. The success/failure of the OS is hardly determined by the folks that have equipment like you.

Folks that are on message boards like this also do not make up the majority. When Win8 hits Facebook, then take a look at the average user.

Avg user also doesn't drink the MS Kool-aid, like the Vista debacle once the annoyances bother them Dell and HP will quickly offer Win7 downgrades.

This is the same BS we went through on this forum debating about the merits of Vista vs XP and guess how that one ended?

Win8 drivers aren't even ready for most hardware, I look at devmgr and there are 4 devices unknown and no driver download at Lenovo yet for my test machines and I'm using the latest Win8 9200 build.

It's starting to look like Vista all over again.

[BRealistic]

Why not offer some type of 'Windows 7 mode' for hardware drivers?

The driver issue is a huge problem.
You want to Piss off customers, then make their existing printers and scanners etc useless because their new computer forces every hardware manufacturer to create updated drivers.


I wonder what would happen if a majority of hardware manufacturers just agreed to ignore the new OS?

[Vision33r]

Found this start menu regedit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CAuv...feature=fvwrel

They've taken that out, there's no more hack to get the Start Menu back other than the Classic Menu which looks like Win XP.

I have to say that more people will buy Macs this year when Win8 comes out because the Mountain Lion update was so painless and slick that it makes Win8 feel like just an utter mess.

Best of yet, when you upgrade from Lion to Mountain Lion you don't have to reinstall anything and all your data is still there.

I've been telling MS for years to create a better user migration tool for user settings and app data and it has not been addressed. It's gotten better but not quite there yet.

Why not offer some type of 'Windows 7 mode' for hardware drivers?

The driver issue is a huge problem.
You want to Piss off customers, then make their existing printers and scanners etc useless because their new computer forces every hardware manufacturer to create updated drivers.


I wonder what would happen if a majority of hardware manufacturers just agreed to ignore the new OS?

It will be like 2007 all over again with Dell/HP push MS to speed up Win9 or a major patch. Also offer Win7 downgrades just like the popular XP downgrades at the time.

There are so many epic fails in this release and time is running out on Dell and HP if MS doesn't fix Win8 they will be fine but HP and Dell will take massive losses next quarter in sales. It's like the tales of the Two cities with Apple swimming in sales and cash and Dell and HP nose diving.

[Egilbe]

It looks worse than Vista. At least there are Linux distros that mimic how windows or OSX looks. If only Linux had better game support.

[Hostile]

I've been telling MS for years

I truly lol'd when I read this.

[BRealistic]

It looks worse than Vista. At least there are Linux distros that mimic how windows or OSX looks. If only Linux had better game support.

Isn't steam coming out for Ubuntu?

[Egilbe]

Isn't steam coming out for Ubuntu?

I'll be damned. I need to keep up with linux development

http://steamforlinux.com/