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    Thread: Carb'd 16v vs. VR6

    1. Member GLIguy85's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 11:51 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by ziggirocco View Post
      Where can i find More info on this motor /car? First time I see a non turbo version. cool!
      what would you like to know? thats my motor and i built it

    2. Member ziggirocco's Avatar
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      08-19-2012 05:31 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by GLIguy85 View Post
      what would you like to know? thats my motor and i built it
      Any info you have specs, output, impressions after driving it. Ou can either post a link, pm or whatever. I like the look/ idea etc.
      Old sciroccos never die....they just go faster....sometimes.......
      www.ziggituning.com

      My Project...

    3. Member Erthan's Avatar
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      08-25-2012 02:23 PM #28
      you guys don't know whats good. 4.2l

    4. Member
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      08-25-2012 04:44 PM #29
      ITB's seem like a bit of a tuning challenge.
      I only dyno'd with 112 at wheels on my ABA/JH hybrid with factory gti fueling, but that was before I ported the intake runners, installed euro injection and ported/polished the TB. I was running a 286 cam. I went to a dyno day many years ago, and dyno'd better than any 16v that was there. (no turbos or ITB's). My car was more reliable as well D: They were not happy
      That same cam and exhaust (2.25") gave me only 94 HP on stock JH motor. The runners are HORRIBLE on the mkI 8v intake, but can be hogged out nicely due to short runners and lots of metal to play with. mkII intake makes more torque, but has hard to reach bends when porting and puts throttle on wrong side.
      A 16v on megasquirt would not be too hard to do at all. I like that option as well.
      Do you want to be unique, or make a sporty street AND track car?I like the old school sound of the 8V on big lumpy cam. Especially with a 2L...
      16v is always a nice motor... And puts out more when tuned properly... And you can turbo later on.
      I am a believer in circumstance as well. I have had plans change on just about every project I have ever owned, due to availability of parts, or maybe something comes up like a friend selling off something to you for a good price

      Raffi at Eurosport in SoCal had a 20v naturally aspirated motor. I love that car.

      I vote 16v on Carbs if you have a good learning curve for old school tuning.
      vr6 is not a trackable set up compared to a lighter motor. You don't need torque if the car is light. Rev the ish out of it...
      I prefer ITB's due to reliability when tuned correctly. No need to adjust it all the time. Once you get the cams set up, and have everything ready to go, you just slap it on the dyno and tweak the fueling and timing. Carbs still need tuning time on a dyno if you want to do it correctly. But then the fueling is effected by atmospheric changes.
      8v's are made into professional track monsters, so any engine can be built up to race spec...
      Good luck
      I have no cars at the moment.

    5. Banned mauzer76's Avatar
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      08-26-2012 02:28 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by aeffertz View Post
      Which raises the question for me. What's the benefit of running carbs over CIS on a 16V, other than a cleaner bay?
      CIS-E (as I HAD delivering for my 9a) is a great system when it is all in good working order. It has an amazing ability to "self adjust" to things like altitude and temperature. It is also a system that Audi used on their race motors into the early 90's if I remember correctly. It is however VERY finicky when things start to go wrong. Vacuum leaks, broken wires, faulty sensors and the like can make trouble shooting a bit intimidating to the unfamiliar. I am now "finishing up" the dual Dellorto DHLA 40E swap and have only just begun. Meaning: although my set up is not far from running, due to continuous research I have decided to go a step father than my Jacobs box & MSD coil and start putting together components for a Ford EDIS unit. Carbs on a 16V will consume your very being and when you're listening to/driving that beast when its "done" you'll appreciate the madness. If you'd like the reliability of FI without the "prehistoric complexity" of the CIS systems, look into a Digi swap or possibly a Megasquirt system.
      As for VRs in A1s, they don't belong there. There is no way to swap it directly in with the use of entirely factory parts (as is the case w/ an A2 and the use of a Passat/Corrado subframe) and makes the A1 a front heavy roll over waiting to happen. The VR is a dynamo of a power plant, but my 2 cents is that it makes driving an A1 dangerous. I've worked on both engines and find them equally impressive, although for different reasons. My opinion: if you want a VR powered "go-cart", swap an A2.

    6. Senior Member Muffler Bearing's Avatar
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      08-26-2012 07:23 PM #31
      swap a poodle
      A Rabbit is not to be wasted on the tentative or weak. Only the worthy are invited, and then only at your own risk. If you have even a modicum of hesitation, DO NOT buy one of these cars. Instead, leave it for a worthy soul who has already matriculated to the sublime ecstasy of what those in the know refer to as a "MK1"

    7. Member
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      08-26-2012 10:05 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Muffler Bearing View Post
      swap a poodle
      love me some hypo-allergenic options...

      but seriously....

      put a 16 valve up front so everyone concerned about handling wouldn't cry all night and then put a vr6 out back so everyone can tell you how great the exhaust note sounds... of course an o2a would be required at both ends. but please, if you do decide to go this route, don't skimp out when it comes to the diff... go ahead and spend a few more dollars and get a LSD.... sorry, just a pet peave of mine...

      good luck...

      take care,
      nash

    8. Member 8v-of-fury's Avatar
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      08-26-2012 11:12 PM #33
      Nobody up-talking an Oil Burner swap?

      AHU, direct bolt in. Tune and injectors.. your making over 250 ft/lbs of torque. With minimal efforts, weight addition, and 50+ mpg too!

    9. Member BoostedOne's Avatar
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      08-27-2012 12:15 AM #34
      These days, I would do a 1.8T hands down over a 16V or a VR...
      I have owned N/A 16V, 16V-T, both 1.8s and 2.0s.. 8V NA and 8V turbo.. 8V EFI, 8V carbed.. VR6s in MKIIs and B3s.. and 1.8Ts... I never even remotely cared to have ITBs...If Im going to spend that kind of money, I will spend half of it(LOL) and put a turbo on that gives 5 times the gain...

      The VR was a cool swap in the 1990s.. Do they have power? Yea, some.. But considering its 2.8L displacement, its a slug. I did a VR swap in my 92 Golf. The donor car was just sitting there, and 1.8T was out of my league at the time(2003 or 2004)... But you don't get decent power on a VR without big big bucks or a turbo. The cylinder heads are just horrible.. a 24V is just a polished version of the same turd, the ports are aweful.. But, they do sound wicked.
      The thing that makes the VR less desirable is we are talking MkI's... Its just too much work to make it fit, and takes up way too much space.. If I was building a fast or fun MkI and I had a VR there free for the taking, I wouldn't use it.. Sorry.. In a MkII its atleast a bolt in..

      16V's? Not worth it in my opionion.. The prices on 1.8L 20V's has come down so much that they go for a few hundred bucks of eachother..Arguably you could get a 20V cheaper because you never find 16V's in a wrecking yard, only private party at 3-500 for a complete motor.. You can get a complete "engine" from the bigger wrecking yards for 200 if you pull it yourself.. 1.8T Golfs, Jettas and Passats are alot more common in the yard than 16V's ever were here...If you leave the 16V naturally aspirated the most you can expect out of it is a very peaky 150hp... After spending a small truckload of green..

      1.8T on the other hand, well over 200hp/300+lb ft of torque to the tires with only bolt ons, IF you keep the stock turbo... Put a t3/t4 hybrid on it and give up some of the bottom end(that just boils the tires off the car anyhow) and your well into 350hp territory..

      A VR6T will make more power on paper, but you will likely never put it on the ground unless its on a set of drag slicks on a drag strip making a drag pass... 1.8T will be Lighter, easier to work on, easier to install...

      And if you just want fun, cheap and reliable, don't overlook a well set up, EFI turbo 8V with a crossflow head.. They are seriously hard to beat. I'd put up a shadetree EFI 8V turbo car up against a ITB or carb'd car show it nothing but taillights.... Most likely with alot less money invested..

      I love 8V turbo.. I did go VR on my 92, but at the time I also had an 8V turbo GTI... the VR was there, and would have been different to me.. My 8V turbo GTI would paddle my VR up and down the street... So for me these days its pretty much either a 20V turbo or an 8V turbo if its running on gasoline..

    10. Member nemo1ner's Avatar
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      08-27-2012 01:47 PM #35
      I'm one of those people that don't believe in putting a large motor into these cars. I'm even against VR swaps in MK2's.

      If you are set on an engine swap, 1.8T is about as big as I would go. 180hp in a MK1 is a lot of power. It makes no sense to stuff a pig of an engine into the bay when the same power can be had with 2 cylinders less.
      Last edited by nemo1ner; 08-27-2012 at 01:50 PM.
      //COOLWATERmotorsport
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    11. Member Cushy's Avatar
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      08-27-2012 04:22 PM #36
      just cut the crap and do it already. VR6 on triple dcoe's. I havent seen anybody do that yet.
      Quote Originally Posted by SVT2888 View Post
      The car scene, much like the music scene, has a lot of genre's and even genre's within genre's. But, like those who call themselves real music fans, if you're a real automotive enthusiast you can find something in every genre that you like.
      Quote Originally Posted by vento86 View Post
      Rip the ebrake. Neutral. Get bitches
      Function is the form.

    12. Member BoostedOne's Avatar
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      08-27-2012 04:25 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Cushy View Post
      just cut the crap and do it already. VR6 on triple dcoe's. I havent seen anybody do that yet.
      Probably for a reason.. To quote Chris Rock.. "You can drive a car with your feet if you want to... It doesnt mean that you should!"

    13. Member
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      08-27-2012 05:05 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Cushy View Post
      just cut the crap and do it already. VR6 on triple dcoe's. I havent seen anybody do that yet.
      it actually has. (well, guess not in a mk1)

      Last edited by ArpyArpad; 08-27-2012 at 05:17 PM.

    14. Member oldschool eighty8's Avatar
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      08-27-2012 08:23 PM #39

    15. Member SGLoki's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 12:55 AM #40
      yet another guy on the 1.8T bandwagon.
      1% defined: Lone wolf, no club. Duct tape it yourself. It is broken down 1% of the time, and work is always 1% completed.
      2% defined: I'm too old to drive broken sh*t and VW people are cool. DBVW!
      Quote Originally Posted by nsindel View Post
      May I introduce Senor SGLoki -
      the man, the myth, the slamdancer...

    16. Member BoostedOne's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 11:11 AM #41
      Its a great wagon to be riding, LOL

    17. Member TM87's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 04:38 PM #42
      Im very happy w my ABA. Im gonna go Turbo next few weeks. It will give me all the power i want.
      In my wifes Cabby ill do JH/ABA w worked head,header and exhaust.

      If 16v r VR is my option, it would be VR.
      "Your pants too tight,your wheels too bright"

    18. Member TwoLitreVW's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 05:51 PM #43
      ABA with SRI and keep the A/C.

      fun, simple, cost effective, reliable, and stays cool on the inside.


      a practical truck. imagine that!
      shut your mouth. sh sh shut your mouth.

    19. Member
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      10-04-2012 09:09 PM #44
      how about as far as hp and tq figures? how does a carb'd cam'd 16v stack up against a 12v vr6? the VR starts out at about 175hp right? what have you guys seen a Carb'd 16v put down? I found one video where he was at 150hp? ...seems kind of low but what do i know

    20. Member Vr6DubNY's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:18 AM #45
      I vote a fully built mechanical headed 16v with a set of 316/304 cams on itb's

    21. 10-05-2012 09:17 AM #46
      suprised no one has said it yet... r32 swap
      Last edited by smitty_mcgee; 10-05-2012 at 09:19 AM.

    22. 10-05-2012 09:40 AM #47
      What about putting a rocket engine? LOL

    23. Member panzer 2.3's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:31 AM #48
      I know it's damn near sac religious, but I like the MKI with the busa motor. I've scene built busa/zx14 motors put out mid-high 300's easily and they're def light.
      DCIVW Eastside

    24. Member wikiwiki83gti's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 01:41 PM #49
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aSHw...feature=relmfu

      theres a even medium here guys.

      not 4, not 6, but 5
      |p|o|l|y|u|r|e|t|h|a|n|e|
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    25. Member panzer 2.3's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 04:27 PM #50
      DCIVW Eastside

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