LED vs Xenon Headlights

[NoXenons]

So I know that LED's have less glare and a longer life than projector xenons.


But which creates more output? How do the beam patterns compare? Is there a sharper cutoff with one or the other?


I realize there are many different housings for both but I cannot find anything conclusive (like xenon >> halogen).

[Eightysixturbo]

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ba...led-26530.html

[Impeccable]

But do they ignite in a cool fashion like xenons

[leaftye]

Some simplifications are in order, but generally...

So I know that LED's have less glare and a longer life than projector xenons.

Glare has everything to do with the optics, and virtually nothing to do with it being LED or HID. Either one can have reflectors, reflectors with aspherical lenses, projectors, and I think both can have TIR lenses. I don't see why the latter wouldn't be true, but I don't recall ever seeing TIR with HID.

On paper LED's have longer life, but that depends on how hard they're driven, the cooling capacity of its housing, and its quality.

But which creates more output?

As far as what could be installed by an OEM or retrofitted right now with what's currently in production, HID does. By a big margin. You can sort of cheat by putting multiple LED's on a single die in a single light housing, but that results in some crappy optics.

How do the beam patterns compare? Is there a sharper cutoff with one or the other?

Again, it depends on the optics. You can use the same type of optics, engineered to the same degree on either one.

I realize there are many different housings for both but I cannot find anything conclusive (like xenon >> halogen).

It's conclusive that it's easier to have multiple light output setting with LED. Initial power is less too.







I think LED's are great in flashlights, but for a car, it's HID all the way for me. My next mod will almost certainly be HID 50W bi-xenon projectors. That is, after a heavy round of mods in the coming week.

For LED's to reach that kind of light output, I'd need more emitters than I could fit into my light housings, and my car would end up looking like a rally car.

At this point in time, if you want the brightest light with great optics, go HID.

[Shomegrown]

I have a chart somewhere showing the beam patern and light output of Audi vehicles ranging from a Hallogen A3 up to the R18 racecar. The LED's in the A6/A7/A8 outperformed HID's.

[dubjager]

I have a chart somewhere showing the beam patern and light output of Audi vehicles ranging from a Hallogen A3 up to the R18 racecar. The LED's in the A6/A7/A8 outperformed HID's.

Would love to see it!

[robr2]

One issue I've heard with LED headlights is that because they burn so cool, snow and ice build up on the lenses more quickly.

[mikegilbert]

Our local transit agency is slowly retrofitting all buses with JW Speaker LED headlights.

http://www.jwspeaker.com/products/headlights/

[TooFitToQuit]

1,300 lumens? Wow that's terrible

[TooFitToQuit]

I have a chart somewhere showing the beam patern and light output of Audi vehicles ranging from a Hallogen A3 up to the R18 racecar. The LED's in the A6/A7/A8 outperformed HID's.

Audi uses crappy projectors anyways, so it's not the "best of" for HID projectors.

[Slowkums]

1,300 lumens? Wow that's terrible

Compared to HID, yeah. On par with halogen though. No clue what kind of lumens OEMs are getting out of their led headlamps though.

[TooFitToQuit]

Compared to HID, yeah. On par with halogen though. No clue what kind of lumens OEMs are getting out of their led headlamps though.

Probably 2,500-3,000. I'm working on sourcing a pair of drivers for the LS600H LED modules I have.

[Shomegrown]

Probably 2,500-3,000. I'm working on sourcing a pair of drivers for the LS600H LED modules I have.

That sounds about right. IIRC the R18 racecars are putting out over 5300 Lumens to handle the 200 mph at LeMans at night. I'll try to find the article.

[Ungarisch]

I'm a lighting consultant by profession (although architectural) and I can tell you that LED's in their current state, still do not produce the same lumen/watt output compared to metal halide. The're close but still not quite as efficient.

For example, a 35 watt LED cluster from a reputable manufacturer like Cree or Nichia outputs roughly 2500-2800 lumens, versus a typical 35 watt metal halide lamp is around 3200-3500 lumens.

The current argument for LED's are that they are rated to last 50k hours versus 10-15k for MH, but when to factor in the fact that MH is serviceable and LED's are not (no standards for now), and that LED's have an end of life output fade just like MH, going with MH is still the more economical choice. The real benefit of going with LED, in the architectural world at least, is that MH lamp's have a hard time reproducing that 2700-3000*K color temperate that is most pleasing to the eye. Tho there are now ceramic metal halide lamps that do a nice job of achieving that.

When you compare halogen to LED though, there is just no comparison, LED always wins.

[zerotosixty]

Audi uses crappy projectors anyways, so it's not the "best of" for HID projectors.

How are they crappy? Most every Audi I've driven have had fantastic HIDs at night.

BMW does them well too.

I hate the way Acura does them. They're way too bright and they are never aimed properly.

[zerotosixty]

I'm a lighting consultant by profession (although architectural) and I can tell you that LED's in their current state, still do not produce the same lumen/watt output compared to metal halide. The're close but still not quite as efficient.

If they're not as efficient, etc, then why are manufacturers pushing LED headlights so much? MB, BMW, Audi, they're all doing it. (just wondering because I really don't know anything about them, except that the LED headlight clusters look cool )

[Ungarisch]

as my post mentioned "in their current state" there still not as efficient. We have progressed a TREMENDOUS amount in LED technology in the last 5 years. Back then they were barely acceptable as halogen replacements, let alone metal halide.

Heat is the killer of LED's, as better heat dissipation technologies come along they will get more efficient. I'm not an expert on the engineer side per say, so I can't go into detail, but I can say that they will very soon be the light source of choice for car, namely for the reason of 5 year+ (continuous) lamp life and the general trend towards making cars become disposable goods vs. durable....

[zerotosixty]

as my post mentioned "in their current state" there still not as efficient. We have progressed a TREMENDOUS amount in LED technology in the last 5 years. Back then they were barely acceptable as halogen replacements, let alone metal halide.

Heat is the killer of LED's, as better heat dissipation technologies come along they will get more efficient. I'm not an expert on the engineer side per say, so I can't go into detail, but I can say that they will very soon be the light source of choice for car, namely for the reason of 5 year+ (continuous) lamp life and the general trend towards making cars become disposable goods vs. durable....

Looking at this diagram for the A8, it seems there is a diffuser and fan to help dissipate heat?

[Ungarisch]

yeah, I'd imagine putting a fan on the heat sink would help greatly, but that kind of defeats the moniker of "solid state" lighting adds another component to potentialy fail, but German cars mfgs. are notorious for that anyways...

[NoXenons]

How are they crappy? Most every Audi I've driven have had fantastic HIDs at night.

BMW does them well too.

I hate the way Acura does them. They're way too bright and they are never aimed properly.

yeah, I'd imagine putting a fan on the heat sink would help greatly, but that kind of defeats the moniker of "solid state" lighting adds another component to potentialy fail, but German cars mfgs. are notorious for that anyways...

Honda/Acura are set to introduce their own LED headlights. We'll see how they fare in comparison.

[leaftye]

Looking at this diagram for the A8, it seems there is a diffuser and fan to help dissipate heat?

That's no surprise. In the last LED thread I participated in, I mentioned that part of the reason LED systems would be more complex is because of the need for cooling. I'm sure there's a heat sink in there too, and even if it was assisted by air flow as the car moved, there would quickly be problems when the car wasn't moving. A 40 watt LED as is used in the A8 high beam is going to produce a lot of heat. Fwiw, that LED is a 4 in 1, which makes it bigger. Optics for long throw is easier when it's smaller.

[deftonesfan867]

1,300 lumens? Wow that's terrible

I thought so as well, but one of the pictures show's them being used on a fire truck and they looked really bright.

Not always dependent on lumens if the light is projected correctly.

As a matter of fact there's a Escalade ESV platinum that I see in my area quite often and the LED headlights on it are quite bright even in daylight.

[TangoRed]

I thought so as well, but one of the pictures show's them being used on a fire truck and they looked really bright.

Not always dependent on lumens if the light is projected correctly.

As a matter of fact there's a Escalade ESV platinum that I see in my area quite often and the LED headlights on it are quite bright even in daylight.

The Escalade's LED headlights aren't as good as the xenons, according to escalade forum members.

[paul99]

Germans love to over engineer their products

[BsickPassat]

How are they crappy? Most every Audi I've driven have had fantastic HIDs at night.

BMW does them well too.

I hate the way Acura does them. They're way too bright and they are never aimed properly.

... you're complaining that Acura (made by Stanley) HIDs are too bright? That means they are doing it better with the same HID bulbs.

[Ponto]

I will just leave this here...



Who needs LED's when you can have lazers...

http://www.premiumautoshow.com/2014-...er-lights.html

[deftonesfan867]

The Escalade's LED headlights aren't as good as the xenons, according to escalade forum members.

Oh I know, but from what I've read they're in between the halogens and HID's as far as output goes.

[zerotosixty]

... you're complaining that Acura (made by Stanley) HIDs are too bright? That means they are doing it better with the same HID bulbs.

No. That doesn't mean they're better. That means their setup is poor.

[jepva]

No. That doesn't mean they're better. That means their setup is poor.

TL projectors are actually considered one of the best in the industry and the preferred choice for retrofits. But we know you only like Euro stuff...

[zerotosixty]

TL projectors are actually considered one of the best in the industry and the preferred choice for retrofits. But we know you only like Euro stuff...

Nah man. Infiniti. They do it best. Only them. The G37xS is the best car in the segment. Better than the 3 series.


back on topic, is that why I see every TL blinding on coming traffic?

[Slowkums]

Our local transit agency is slowly retrofitting all buses with JW Speaker LED headlights.

http://www.jwspeaker.com/products/headlights/

I saw one of these on a H-D over the weekend. It was during the day though, so...

[BsickPassat]

Nah man. Infiniti. They do it best. Only them. The G37xS is the best car in the segment. Better than the 3 series.


back on topic, is that why I see every TL blinding on coming traffic?

The 3-series Bosch AL projectors aren't even that great.

The Koito-made projectors for the FX & G are a close second behind the TL for bixenon performance in both the beam pattern width & intensity.

Very few people retrofit a Bosch projector because of their lack thereof performance compared to Japanese projectors

[mraguilar]

One thing that annoys me is that the Halogens are considered the least efficient because the heat they produce, in the other hand the LED need complex cooling systems. So the question is which ones generate more heat per the same light at the output?

[leaftye]

The problem isn't really the heat, it's how they respond to the heat.

[tiexgrr]

I will just leave this here...



Who needs LED's when you can have lazers...

http://www.premiumautoshow.com/2014-...er-lights.html

What language was this translated from? The grammar is just horrible.

I tried reading this but felt like my IQ was dropping.