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    Thread: Let's talk about Straight 8s

    1. Member MAG58's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:11 AM #1
      I see all these engine threads talking about I6, V6, VR6, I4, V8, V12, and all other sorts of fun engines, so let's talk about my favorite impractical engine configuration from days gone by: the straight 8.

      Duesenberg:


      Pontiac:


      Buick Straight 8 in a 240SX:


      Coolest: Turbo Buick in a Jaguar:



      Discuss

    2. Member WD-40's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:26 AM #2



    3. Member personman's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:37 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by WD-40 View Post


      That's actually one of the easier tightening sequences I've seen.

    4. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:47 AM #4
      That Lawwill rearend was really ahead of its time - solid choice.


    5. Member GTE77's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 12:54 AM #5
      This will be one LOOOOOOOOng conversation.

    6. 08-20-2012 01:04 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by GTE77 View Post
      This will be one LOOOOOOOOng conversation.
      I read this and thought, "lol, what if there were 8 O's, like a straight 8..."

      Well played.

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      08-20-2012 01:23 AM #7
      Might as well bring Harry Miller into this conversation:



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    8. Member WD-40's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:24 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by personman View Post
      That's actually one of the easier tightening sequences I've seen.
      How about this one then?


    9. Member Rukh's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:34 AM #9
      That one looks like tons of fun.

      Chrysler Atlantic had a "Straight Eight" - essentially two Neon I4s end to end, IIRC.

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      08-20-2012 01:42 AM #10
      miller?

      you bet!



      Packard is nicely done as well '29

      Quote Originally Posted by wantacad View Post
      hey now, unbolting the rear bumper, dropping the beam and gas tank to change out an exhaust hanger is perfectly normal.

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      08-20-2012 01:49 AM #11
      "It's a 1949 Buick Roadmaster. Straight-Eight. Fireball Eight. Dad lets me drive on the driveway, but not on Monday."



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    12. Member personman's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:59 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by WD-40 View Post
      How about this one then?
      That's more like it!

    13. Member mx5er's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 02:26 AM #13
      Who remembers the Ford T Drive???




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      08-20-2012 03:04 AM #14
      I had the naughty thought recently of making a Type43 or 44 Bugatti replica hotrod style with a custom VR8 for packaging practicality and the VAG connection. And to make it totally blasphemous I'd have it done by an American hotrod builder. I have no money - however.
      Also - it would be interesting to build a VR engine for maximum revs (Honda Vtec style) since these hotrods don't weight much anyways.













      Last edited by AuForm; 08-20-2012 at 03:14 AM.

    15. Member MCTB's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 07:32 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by mx5er View Post
      Who remembers the Ford T Drive???



      What is this?
      Looking for a car event on the East Coast? Check here

      I have an idea, we will try it my way first...and then we will finish.

      MCFC

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      08-20-2012 07:43 AM #16
      How about a 12.5 liter Straight 8?

      Bugatti Royale Engine:

      http://sixsylinder.blogspot.com

      Quote Originally Posted by stacman View Post
      Top gear recommended it, so I bought it.

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      08-20-2012 08:13 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by MCTB View Post
      What is this?
      It's a prototype Tempo with a Straight-8 sideways. IIRC, it was some project Ford was doing developing transverse Inline engines for FWD applications.

      EDIT:
      http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec...ve/default.htm

      In the last 30 years, Ford has produced several experimental engine developments which were ultimately abandoned. Most have never been seen, much less detailed technically. T-Drive is one of them; another was the stratified charge V-8 engine of the 70s. We've finally found some information on T-Drive, a truly unique and innovative system. We'm still looking for information on the stratified-charge V-8, and while some information was published 30 years ago about it I haven't yet been able to find any information about it in my personal library. I remember seeing a picture of a room full of them, after being broken up with sledge hammers when the program was abruptly terminated.

      T-drive is a system consisting of a transversally located inline engine, a transmission, and associated packaging. It was designed by Ford in approximately the 1990 timeframe and shown in several auto shows and to magazines. Ultimately, it was abandoned due to several reasons. Ford went ahead with the "modular" V-6, V-8, VB-10, and V-12 engine families instead.

      The T-Drive engine was literally t-shaped - the transmission was located in the middle of the engine instead of the end. This allows easy and compact placement in small spaces. Due to the tight spacing of the cylinder bores, engines were possible from 4 to 8 cylinders. And T-Drive was designed from the start as a DOHC engine, state-of-the-art at that time. Because the technology was entirely consistent across the board, any new technology could be applied to the entire range of engines quickly.

      Engine output was never discussed. However, there are no reasons why it wouldn't be exactly the same as a conventional engine. Displacement was apparently 2, 3.2, and 4 liters (4, 6, and 8 cylinders).

      Ford Engineers:

      -Don Carriere, Principal Research Engineer
      -Ansel Flanery, Senior Research Engineer.

      Advantages:
      Family approach to a range of engines
      -Because of the size of the engine, and placement ahead of the axle centerline, front-, all-, or rear-wheel drive configurations could be engineered
      -Rear-wheel drive could have used variations of existing off-the-shelf transmissions (saving money).
      -Packaging advantages for "cab-forward" design.
      -The transmission is located in-line with the midpoint of the crankshaft. This allows for a very low engine placement, and correspondingly low hoodline
      -Marketing: provide Ford with centerpiece engine technology, as Subaru has with it's boxer engine family.

      Problems:
      -Packaging, NVH, durability.
      -Harmonics, torque pulse and gear rattle.
      -Limited bore size (torque, breathing, valve area) and displacement.
      -Engine weight over front axle-line, creating weigh-balance issues as in a front-wheel drive car
      -Front- or all-wheel drive would have required engineering variations on existing transmissions.
      -Bulky transmission placement behind the engine - requiring specific design changes on existing front-wheel drive-based platforms.
      This is the most outrageous example of T-Drive: a V-8 Tempo.
      Yes, a 4 liter V-8 Tempo.


      Note the DOHC inline-8.
      The test car didn't have room for a conventional braking assist system - note the two reservoirs hung off the strut brace.

      Judging from the patent text, this was at a minimum a front wheel drive car. It's not known if there was a take-off for a driveshaft to the rear, making it an AWD car. The patent does allow for that.

      You'll note that on both of these engines, there is a gap in the middle of the engine where the drivetrain take-off was engineered.


      This is a FOX-chassis T-Bird, with a 6-cylinder T-drive engine.
      The engine is transverse, possibly leading to an unfavorable weight balance.



      The rest of the driveline is conventional rear wheel drive. This car was probably built to demonstrate use of the near-off-the-shelf driveline.
      Note that the engine takes up the full engine bay - not the radiator placement (normally very far-forward in a FOX T-Bird).
      Last edited by Geechie_Suede; 08-20-2012 at 08:20 AM.
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    18. Member JCT's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 08:14 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by MCTB View Post
      What is this?
      http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec...ve/default.htm

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      08-20-2012 09:57 AM #19
      Mercedes 300 SLR



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      08-20-2012 10:39 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by RacingManiac View Post
      Mercedes 300 SLR


      Yo lo apruebo.

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      08-20-2012 11:28 AM #21
      I was too little to remember it, but my grandma and grandpa had a '52 Pontiac Catalina with straight-8 power when I was born. I have some pictures of the car. Pontiac, in fact was the last carmaker to offer inline-8 engines, up until 1954. The carmaker was late into the V8 revolution among the American makers, but they massaged their old straight-8 with postwar tech, and offered the highest compression-ratios ever seen on such engines, which raised their output to competitive levels. The engines were just too long, heavy, and inefficient though to keep up with the ultra-modern new OHV V8s coming from all the makers, even the independents like Packard, Nash and Studebaker.



      Grandma and Grandpa traded the Catalina for a new '56 Pontiac Star Chief, with the all-new 287 cubic-inch OHV Pontiac V8 engine and Hydramatic. I remember that car v. well, since Grandma had it into the sixties, and we used it to drive from our home in NW Indiana to Arizona for our summer vacation several summers running, since it was faster and roomier than my dad's Ford.

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      08-20-2012 11:51 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by vwlarry View Post
      The carmaker was late into the V8 revolution among the American makers, but they massaged their old straight-8 with postwar tech, and offered the highest compression-ratios ever seen on such engines, which raised their output to competitive levels.
      Thanks, Larry:

      Compression on the "eight" started at 5.7 - 1 initially, and was increased to 6.2 - 1 ratio in 1934. In 1940 it was increased again to 6.5 - 1. From 1952 to 1954 two compression ratios were specified, 6.8-1 with syncromesh (manual) transmission, and 7.7-1 ratio with Hydra-Matic (automatic) transmission. The engine had a remarkably low idle speed of a 450 rpm with standard transmission and 375 rpm (while in drive) for the automatic;
      Quote Originally Posted by Billy Kelton
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      08-20-2012 12:26 PM #23
      One of my favorite inline 8s, the Stutz DV32 DOHC, 4 valve per cyl aluminum unit:



      The starting point for the Stutz's DOHC entry was the Vertical Eight, a design credited to a veteran automotive engineer named Charles O. Greuter. The eight, designed while "Pop" Greuter was working at the Excelsior Motor Company in Chicago, featured a single overhead camshaft, nine main bearings, a crossflow cylinder head with two valves per cylinder and dual ignition, making it powerful and smooth.

      Greuter's eight came to the attention of Frederick E. Moskovics, who had been brought in to rescue a stumbling Stutz in 1925. Moskovics took Greuter aboard, and set him to work adapting the engine for a racy new model, to be called the Series AA. The major change in the engine's design was the use of a "silent" chain to power the camshaft, rather than a vertical shaft and noisy bevel gears. The original Vertical Eight wrung 92 horsepower from its 287 cubic inches, excellent by the standards of the day.

      The ultimate development of the Vertical Eight arrived in the spring of 1931. The new engine's name, DV-32, was a reference to its dual overhead camshafts and total of 32 valves, four per cylinder. The dual valves increased the engine's breathing capacity by 60 percent, while allowing each spark plug to be centrally located, for better flame propagation. With a displacement of 322 cubic inches, the DV-32 produced a heady 156 horsepower at 3,900 RPM, just 5 horsepower less than the heavier and more complex L-head V-12s from Lincoln and Packard, and 20 less than Cadillac's overhead-valve V-16. The single-cam version of the eight, now called the SV-16, was still available, and was conservatively rated at 113hp at 3,300 RPM.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    24. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      08-20-2012 01:00 PM #24
      Straight 8 TT in a miata plz

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      08-20-2012 05:21 PM #25
      I8? Pfft, didn't you hear? The next Porsche is gunna have a VR8.

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