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    Thread: Caddy TDI build

    1. Member
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      09-06-2012 07:23 PM #36
      Seriously quit using starter fluid, the more you do that, the worse it's going to be. Take it to a shop if you can't figure it out you're ruining the engine.

    2. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 07:45 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by jraney View Post
      Seriously quit using starter fluid, the more you do that, the worse it's going to be. Take it to a shop if you can't figure it out you're ruining the engine.
      As I said, I know its bad.... I just needed verification that it would run, I wont use it again...


      As for bringing the rig to a shop that is out of the question. I cant be paying someone to work on this, too much$$$$. Thanks for the help.....

      Josh

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      09-06-2012 07:49 PM #38
      Sometimes it's worth spending $100 or so for an expert's opinion on what's wrong rather than spending countless hours and throwing parts at something when you honestly don't know what the deal is. Just my .02

    4. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 08:03 PM #39
      Anyone have any suggestions to why my TDI wont start? She turns over smokes a bit and tries to start. I have bleed the lines as well.



      Engine has been freshly timed with a fairly new head.

    5. Member ducatipaso's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 08:08 PM #40
      crappy fuel?

    6. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 08:15 PM #41
      I wish it was that simple... This is a swap, with bran new fuel...

      Thanks
      Josh

      Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

    7. Member syracusegli's Avatar
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      09-06-2012 09:33 PM #42
      did you prime the IP properly?
      did you wire in the OBD port? can you scan it? check codes?
      Quote Originally Posted by 2mAn View Post
      go crash into a hybrid
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      09-06-2012 10:08 PM #43
      How does it run and drive when you finally get it started? You need to put the engine under load to get a decent assessment.

      The belt sprocket at the crank may be wearing out. The D indentation starts getting sloppy. I've heard of others with similar symptoms. Don't remove the stretch bolt unless you have another ready.

      Do you have VCDS? Plug it in and see where your timing is. You may be too retarded.

      -Todd

    9. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 08:34 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      How does it run and drive when you finally get it started? You need to put the engine under load to get a decent assessment.

      The belt sprocket at the crank may be wearing out. The D indentation starts getting sloppy. I've heard of others with similar symptoms. Don't remove the stretch bolt unless you have another ready.

      Do you have VCDS? Plug it in and see where your timing is. You may be too retarded.

      -Todd
      Tod, Thanks for the suggestions.
      The car seems to run fine, but I have not put load on the engine. The truck is not ready to be driven around, lots of ods and ends that need finishing.
      I do not have a valid VAG com program. Is that what VCDS is? I have a couple OB2 cables but no valid vagcom program.
      I have a program on my phone that talks to the OBD2 port via Bluetooth to read trouble codes.


      I am getting 3 trouble codes.
      1. coolant temp. Circ/short to B+ (P1256)
      2. Catalyst tem. Cir Open/short to B+ (P1447) (No temp sensor connected cat removed.)
      3. Glow plug/heater indicator Circ. Open/short to Ground. (P1617)

      Anyone know if these generic descriptions are correct for the codes I'm getting?

    10. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 08:38 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by syracusegli View Post
      did you prime the IP properly?
      did you wire in the OBD port? can you scan it? check codes?

      I think the pump is good, not seeing much for air in the lines now.
      I came across so many different versions of how to Prime the pump I wasnt sure what was the correct way.

      I am getting 3 trouble codes.
      1. coolant temp. Circ/short to B+ (P1256)
      2. Catalyst tem. Cir Open/short to B+ (P1447) (No temp sensor connected cat removed.)
      3. Glow plug/heater indicator Circ. Open/short to Ground. (P1617)

      Anyone know if these generic descriptions are correct for the codes I'm getting?

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      09-07-2012 09:29 AM #46
      Go to the Ross Tech site and run the codes that you're seeing. I doubt the codes that you're seeing will cause for hard starts. The only one that could have the slightest chance would be the GP circuit, but a DI won't call for GPs until it's in the mid 40°s. Generic code readers work, but will miss dealer specific codes.

      Ex. I borrowed a friend's Blue Point reader. It spit out 2 codes. I bought VCDS (VagCom) a week later and I saw around 5 codes.

      You could also go on Ebay and get a knock off cable; some people have luck with them, some don't. If not, you could run VCDS lite, although there's a charge.

      So, you're seeing smoke which tells me that the IP is pumping and since it ran, everything is primed. I'm guessing you just timed by eye and the locks? That's usually sufficient, but give the pump some advance (towards the head) and see what happens. Not a lot of movement is needed to get a significant change.

      Join TDI Club. There isn't as much forum traffic, but you'll get a lot more TDI info which pertains to your issue.

      -Todd

    12. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 09:42 AM #47
      Thanks Tod, This is all coming back to me. I think I had a version of this software in the past.
      I know I used to run codes a while back on an old MK3 I had.
      Thanks Tod, Im on the TDIforum but I seem to get more responses on this site. Ill do some more searching on TDIclub,

      Now on moving the pump? How is that done? LOL

      Thanks,

      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      Go to the Ross Tech site and run the codes that you're seeing. I doubt the codes that you're seeing will cause for hard starts. The only one that could have the slightest chance would be the GP circuit, but a DI won't call for GPs until it's in the mid 40°s. Generic code readers work, but will miss dealer specific codes.

      Ex. I borrowed a friend's Blue Point reader. It spit out 2 codes. I bought VCDS (VagCom) a week later and I saw around 5 codes.

      You could also go on Ebay and get a knock off cable; some people have luck with them, some don't. If not, you could run VCDS lite, although there's a charge.

      So, you're seeing smoke which tells me that the IP is pumping and since it ran, everything is primed. I'm guessing you just timed by eye and the locks? That's usually sufficient, but give the pump some advance (towards the head) and see what happens. Not a lot of movement is needed to get a significant change.

      Join TDI Club. There isn't as much forum traffic, but you'll get a lot more TDI info which pertains to your issue.

      -Todd

    13. Member Rockerchick's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 09:45 AM #48
      There should be an IP timing how-to over on TDI Club. But you really should get VAG-COM hooked up and check your timing. Its so easy. But it really should be done. You said its "timed to a T" but if the IP isn't, then your timing isn't all set.
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      VW-making mechanics out of owners since 1957.
      The project - '84 Jetta 1.6TD, 186k+, fully rebuilt, Giles IP and injectors, 2.5" custom exhaust, 51mpg
      Hers - '03 BMP 20thAE GTI, 130k, 3" 42DD turbo back, Unitronic Stage 2
      His - '01 Jetta TDI, 135k. Now has 3 pedals, as it should!

    14. 09-07-2012 09:54 AM #49
      1st, make sure your timing is all set right.



      This may sound a little strange, but check your ignition switch.

      With my TDI swap ( you know, this one), I had an issue shortly after I started driving it where it would turn over and start, but as soon as I let the key go from crank back to run it would die. If I gave it throttle with the key on start (ie: got the revs up), the engine would stumble but then continue to run after I let the key off start. IE: the ecu then got power, the engine was spinning, so the ECU kept it running...

      My issue was the contacts in the ignition switch. When the ignition switch went from start to key on, the power was lost to my ECU.

      My issue had nothing to do with my swap, it was just the worn out parts on the truck that happened to show up at about the same time.


      I also had an issue after losing my fuel supply hose. It cracked at -40 and would draw in air if the engine rocked back, but otherwise the hose was ok. After fixing the hose, I could not get the air out of the injector lines if I bled left to right, but I could get the air out if I bled right to left. I still don't get that one....

      -Dave
      Last edited by MrDave; 09-07-2012 at 09:56 AM.

    15. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 09:59 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Rockerchick View Post
      There should be an IP timing how-to over on TDI Club. But you really should get VAG-COM hooked up and check your timing. Its so easy. But it really should be done. You said its "timed to a T" but if the IP isn't, then your timing isn't all set.
      How could my pump be off when I never took the IP sprocket off and I put in lockout pin when timing it. Is the IP sprocket Key-wayed?

      Thanks
      Josh

    16. 09-07-2012 11:26 AM #51
      mk3/A3 AHU TDI timing belt change procedure:
      (should be the same as your 1Z)
      Link

      I don't know why they take the cam gear off. I never have.

      -Dave

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      09-07-2012 11:37 AM #52
      The cam gear doesn't need to come off; it just needs to be loose.

      Getting the static timing done on a 1Z is exactly the same as working on an old IDI... in fact it's the same tools. Checking the timing is where VCDS is needed, but I've heard of people using a dial indicator. The rear plug is present, but I've never tried using this method.

      Adjusting the timing via the pump is also the same, as an old IDI.

      After the car is started and warmed up, shut it off and try to restart. What happens?

      -Todd

    18. Member ducatipaso's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 11:46 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      How does it run and drive when you finally get it started? You need to put the engine under load to get a decent assessment.

      The belt sprocket at the crank may be wearing out. The D indentation starts getting sloppy. I've heard of others with similar symptoms. Don't remove the stretch bolt unless you have another ready.

      Do you have VCDS? Plug it in and see where your timing is. You may be too retarded.

      -Todd
      I had this happen to an ALH and magically I had VTEC! this thing finally let go and pushed the valves into the cam and tore up the top half of the head.

    19. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-07-2012 11:47 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      The cam gear doesn't need to come off; it just needs to be loose.

      Getting the static timing done on a 1Z is exactly the same as working on an old IDI... in fact it's the same tools. Checking the timing is where VCDS is needed, but I've heard of people using a dial indicator. The rear plug is present, but I've never tried using this method.

      Adjusting the timing via the pump is also the same, as an old IDI.

      After the car is started and warmed up, shut it off and try to restart. What happens?

      -Todd
      OK I get it that makes sense! Thanks!

      After the car is warm it still doesn't start.

      Josh

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      09-07-2012 12:42 PM #55
      I'm guessing timing. I'd advance the pump as a quick troubleshoot, but I'd still check that sprocket.

      The sprockets are known to last about 200K before requiring replacement. Don't cheap out on the bolt and sprocket. Saving a few bucks isn't worth losing an engine.

      -Todd

    21. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-10-2012 07:43 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      I'm guessing timing. I'd advance the pump as a quick troubleshoot, but I'd still check that sprocket.

      The sprockets are known to last about 200K before requiring replacement. Don't cheap out on the bolt and sprocket. Saving a few bucks isn't worth losing an engine.

      -Todd
      Awesome! Thanks so much Tod for the advice!

    22. Semi-n00b
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      09-11-2012 12:13 AM #57
      Good luck figuring this out just finished an ALH swap in my 81 Rabbit, it is a lot of fun.

    23. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-11-2012 09:41 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by ford500 View Post
      Good luck figuring this out just finished an ALH swap in my 81 Rabbit, it is a lot of fun.
      Thanks! How did she come out? You loving it or what?

      Josh

    24. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-15-2012 08:25 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      I'm guessing timing. I'd advance the pump as a quick troubleshoot, but I'd still check that sprocket.

      The sprockets are known to last about 200K before requiring replacement. Don't cheap out on the bolt and sprocket. Saving a few bucks isn't worth losing an engine.

      -Todd
      Hey Tod, What's the best way to lock the crankshaft down for removal and installation of the 19mm crank bolt. I got a new pulley and bolt on the way....

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      09-15-2012 08:53 PM #60
      Did you try advancing the pump?

      Impact is the easiest way to get it off. They can be evil tight.

      Installation will either require making or buying a "crank yank". The tool is nothing more than a plate with holes that gets bolted to the gear. There's a leg that braces itself either on the ground or against the body.

      A cheaper alternative is dropping the pan, then inserting a piece of 2x4 (or something softer than the steel), between the block and crank counterweight closest to the bolt. I've used this method in the past.

      Remember that bolt is torque speced with the threads and head flange oiled, not dry.

      There's a Gates ratcheting alternator pulley that's designed to keep the crank pulley from deforming. It's about $65. I started a thread about another pulley that I found on eBay for about $55; it's made in Brazil.

      -Todd

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      09-18-2012 10:06 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      Did you try advancing the pump?

      Impact is the easiest way to get it off. They can be evil tight.

      Installation will either require making or buying a "crank yank". The tool is nothing more than a plate with holes that gets bolted to the gear. There's a leg that braces itself either on the ground or against the body.

      A cheaper alternative is dropping the pan, then inserting a piece of 2x4 (or something softer than the steel), between the block and crank counterweight closest to the bolt. I've used this method in the past.

      Remember that bolt is torque speced with the threads and head flange oiled, not dry.

      There's a Gates ratcheting alternator pulley that's designed to keep the crank pulley from deforming. It's about $65. I started a thread about another pulley that I found on eBay for about $55; it's made in Brazil.

      -Todd
      Thanks Tod, I haven't had much free time to play around with the rabbit. I moved the pump one night only about 2mm. I do believe it helps a bit, it really sounds like it wants to start even more.

      I got my hands on a Ross tech cable from my buddy who's laptop crapped the bed. I did a fresh wipe of a old laptop installed VCDS and works great with the rosstech cable. When I'm all finished with it I'm going to give the whole new system back to my buddy, he is super excited cause he had no money get into a new system.

      I may move the pump some more later today to see if I get more results.

      Also now I seem to be getting a new trouble code having to do with fuel shut off... N109 solenoid.
      Do these get stuck sometimes? W@hat issues have you come across dealing with these solenoids.

      Thanks
      Josh

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      09-18-2012 10:38 AM #62
      2mm is a lot; you're rotating the top of the pump towards the head? If you used the locks and timed correctly, the vehicle should at least start.

      The N109 code is the only code you're pulling? I'd clear the code and see if it comes back. I have no experience with a TDI fuel solenoid, but being a VE pump I'd think it works the same as an IDI fuel solenoid.

      The solenoid is simply an electromagnet; when it sees 12v, it pulls a plunger upwards allowing flow. With the ignition off, jump power to the solenoid... you should hear a click. If not, pull it out of the pump and pull the guts. The guts wil consist of a spring and plunger... don't lose the o-ring.

      If the car starts you'll need to dump the clutch to shut the car off.

      -Todd

    28. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-18-2012 11:31 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      2mm is a lot; you're rotating the top of the pump towards the head? If you used the locks and timed correctly, the vehicle should at least start.

      The N109 code is the only code you're pulling? I'd clear the code and see if it comes back. I have no experience with a TDI fuel solenoid, but being a VE pump I'd think it works the same as an IDI fuel solenoid.

      The solenoid is simply an electromagnet; when it sees 12v, it pulls a plunger upwards allowing flow. With the ignition off, jump power to the solenoid... you should hear a click. If not, pull it out of the pump and pull the guts. The guts wil consist of a spring and plunger... don't lose the o-ring.

      If the car starts you'll need to dump the clutch to shut the car off.

      -Todd
      As of now that is the only code that should matter. still got the same few as before. As soon as my crank lock out tool comes in Im going to pull the toothed crank gear re-time everything and give it a go again. I also got a new fuel filter not knowing how old the original was I thought it would be good to get rid of it.....

      I may get to pulling the fuel shut off solenoid today if i can find some free time. i hear the o-ring slides down on these sometimes.

      Thanks
      again Tod for your time!

      josh

    29. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 12:36 PM #64
      Just a pic I had to add.....


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      09-22-2012 12:46 PM #65
      Wow.... envious of your space. Those cars all yours?

      -Todd

    31. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      09-22-2012 01:34 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by ToddA1 View Post
      Wow.... envious of your space. Those cars all yours?

      -Todd
      No, just the caddy... I did own the 16V T Corrado at one point. Im just doing some work on one of the raddos and my buddy stopped buy in the yellow one. I do own a B8 a4 that I really do love, only if the dealer would give it back me me some day... We are going on two weeks with out it....


      And the space is very borrowed! We just have some free room for a bit. Usually we have satellite trailers pulled in here.

    32. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      10-05-2012 10:52 AM #67
      New addition to the family! Bye Bye B8 A4.....


    33. Member jpskate8's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 06:34 PM #68
      Ok. So I have moved my injection pump around to try get my timing correct. Im not getting the numbers I should and the VCDS TDI timing chart is reading that im way to advanced?
      Im getting a yellow line vertically down through the whole chart... It seems that if I move the pump to the max counter clockwise or counter clock wise the charts dosent really change much.

      I am making huge moments, just for the fact that I want to see the chart change....

      Anyone got any advice on IP timing I have moved the pump about five times and obviously got different results each time.

      At one point I had the pump adjusted so the the rig would fire rite up but would have no throttle response. That was with the IP adjusted counter clockwise as far as it could go.... From there I moved the pump back just a hair and then it wouldn't start.

      Im wondering if I need to run this IP gear one tooth off... Prob a crazy idea..


      Anyways, Thanks


      Josh

    34. Member rallydiesel's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 08:32 PM #69
      Did you follow the timing procedure the letter? A single vertical yellow line means you are way too advanced.
      Once you go "clack", you never go back.

    35. Member rallydiesel's Avatar
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      10-07-2012 08:41 PM #70
      Sounds like you may be using the ALH timing graph instead of the 1Z/AHU graph. Make sure you select AHU or 1Z in the VCDS timing menu.

      Also, your engine has to be at operating temp to use the graph accurately. If everything was locked in place, TDC, etc during tensioning, then your engine should start. Is everything primed? The non-lift pump equipped older TDI's can be very difficult to start once fuel prime is lost.
      Last edited by rallydiesel; 10-07-2012 at 08:52 PM.
      Once you go "clack", you never go back.

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