Taken for a Ride Documentary - How Car Companies Sabotaged Public Transit

[RacingManiac]

In order for transit to be successful, there has to be something about it that makes it better than driving.

This exactly! Thats the biggest problem with TTC in Toronto. The network coverage is small, and in the immediate suburb you either need to drive to the outer most transit station and park, or take another suburb city transit getting you there. The parking support at those stations at the border is small and thus if you are out of parking, you might as well drive at that point. I started taking TTC to school for a month in college then I switched to car....If you use commuter train you still need 2 passes, one for subway, and one for the train, doesn't exactly make it cheap or convenient....

[oh noes! cars!]

Dude it was only 1996. Don't go and make me feel old now.

If that footage from the trade show was current, which is probably wasn't. That's still a 16 year old, portable LCD screened GPS unit

[arethirdytwo]

Most colleges I know of provide a free bus service at night. MSU an UofM both had free drunk busses. IU had a 40 person van running, all free.

Public transit exists in the US, there could be more and it could be better but not everywhere.

Living in London you do everything via bus or train. I didn't even own a car when I lived there.

Here in Austin I can take a train into downtown. I live 8 miles out of the center and in rush hour my commute would be 45 minutes max. The train would require a 20 minute bus ride, a 30 minute train ride and another 10-30 minutes to get to my location. Not worth especially considering that in the car I could probably do it in 20.

I for one like public transport, and have used buses from time to time for commuting. It was good.

I'm (stupidly) surprised that big cities, especially college towns, dont do more w/ public trans in order to decrease DUIs.

Other than DUIs being a cash cow, I don't see any benefit.

[GodSquadMandrake]

Now that we know why America is a car country, why is America so fat?

[TetsuoShima]

Now that we know why America is a car country, why is America so fat?

Same reasons:

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RRRRRRRRRRRR                                                                      CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC                                                                      IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
RRRRRRRRRRRR ============================== CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC ==============================  IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
RRRRRRRRRRRR ============================== CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC ==============================  IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
RRRRRRRRRRRR                                                                     CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC                                                                       IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

R = Residential
C = Commercial
I = Industrial
= : Highway

Edit: spacing got messed up with Industrial but you get the idea

[eurotekms]

Most colleges I know of provide a free bus service at night. MSU an UofM both had free drunk busses. IU had a 40 person van running, all free.

Public transit exists in the US, there could be more and it could be better but not everywhere.

Living in London you do everything via bus or train. I didn't even own a car when I lived there.

Here in Austin I can take a train into downtown. I live 8 miles out of the center and in rush hour my commute would be 45 minutes max. The train would require a 20 minute bus ride, a 30 minute train ride and another 10-30 minutes to get to my location. Not worth especially considering that in the car I could probably do it in 20.

Thats good to hear about (MSU, UoM).
Like you said, could be more but not everywhere.

Also, good to hear about Austin PT. Moving there in a few months. I was hoping to be able to go car-less, using ZipCar and public transport. Probably wont be sensible though, even though I work from home.

[classicjetta]

Public transportation IS full of poor people and drunks. It's science, bitch.

Troll alert

[Chris Stack]

Troll alert

Angry poor person alert.

[PJA]

Can someone post pics of Chris' wife? I need justification to spend all my money on booze and hop on a bus.

[[spoon]]

Comparing US or even worse Canadian transport to Europe is messed up. We don't have the consistent population density they do. Certain areas of the US come close but those are rather few and far between. Canada you have Toronto which is extremely spread out, Montreal, and the Lower Mainland which are all sprawling without a lot of density outside of the cores. Calgary is entirely sprawl. I'm guessing Edmonton isn't much better.

In Vancouver if you live beyond Surrey (or even many parts in Surrey) you must drive to a crowded parking lot to find parking and then the Skytrain takes you a similar amount of time as a car. Benefits vary depending when you head into Vancouver. Additionally, if where you're going isn't along the route and you're having to switch to a bus then a car is definitely faster unless you're trying to cross a bridge in the middle of rush hour.

The West Coast of the US seems to be much the same. Very spread out. Not very conducive to mass transit.

[GruuvenNorth]

Public transportation is for poor people and drunks. I'm not the former, but i do ride when I am the latter.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read, unless you're being sarcastic.

I have a vehicle and don't take the bus since i live close to my work, but you need public transit in the city. We had a bus strike in our city a few years ago and everywhere was a mess. Where it normally took 10 mins to go, now took 40. Businesses were suffering because it was during Christmas season and buses always had traffic flowing in malls. Not everyone drives to work. In most cases you get on one bus, drops you off down town, and you're at work in <30 mins.

Same goes for getting home.


It just goes to show you how government and corporations back then brainwashed people into believing things were better when it actually made it worse.

Funny how the things that got taken away are now coming back:

- public Transit
- Electric cars
- Hipsters (okay not that)


People aren't as gullible nowadays as they were 60-70 years ago.

[phryxis]

I love cars. I love driving cars. But I would LOVE to not always have to drive them.

Public transportation is awesome, and I wish it were a lot better here.

That may be an American oddity. Public transportation is required in Japan. Every single company requires their employees to use the train and they are forbidden from driving a car or even riding a bicycle while commuting. If you were to get into an accident and the company found out, you'd be fired. So every day I see guys with Rolex's and $10,000 suits on my train. They're rich, but even they have to follow the rule and ride next to poor people.

Public transportation isn't required by Japanese companies, and they don't forbid riding a bike to work. I know you live there, but I find those statements to be false. I lived and worked in Japan for a while too.

I can see though, that driving to work would be a huge inconvenience because there would be no parking.

[Chris Stack]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read, unless you're being sarcastic.

Somewhat sarcastic, but there's a very large grain of truth to it. With notable exceptions (the train froM New Haven to NYC on the average weekday morning, for instance), public transportation DOeS tend to be full of poor people. And drunks at night.

[AZGolf]

I do have some comments though: Public transit is well and thriving in the rest of the world. I've always been amazed how USA is so different in this respect. Hopefully this movie will give me some answers.

1) Population density in the US is very low, on average
2) Personal wealth is very high, on average
3) Crime is very high in high density parts of America, on average

[Iroczgirl]

Yeah.

[Ungarisch]

Los Angeles public transport is hopeless....

...and what DA FUQ are they doing adding ONE lane to the 405 that's taking 5 years to complete???

BTW, to LA residents, there were several freeways proposed in Los Angeles that never materialized due to local reisdent protest. The 170 was supposed to cut through Hollywood down La Cienega Blvd and into the 405. The 90 was supposed to be longer then 3 miles, and run parellel to the 10 going up to Malibu. There was a freeway proposed to run through Beverly Hills and the canyons. Man, how would all this help today!

[fbobberts]

Hopefully this movie will give me some answers.

As someone who lives in a sense in the West, still, because I own a house there, I will say people are mostly different West of the Mississippi. In the East people want to live closer together and they want point to point interconnection. In the West we like open spaces and in general PTP interconnection is a waste of time. People move West to gain the flexibility of how they live you can't get in, say, Chicago.

And we don't want to pay the tax rates that support that cumbersome infrastructure build out. To me the companies that push this are looking to enrich themselves at the public trough, by appealing to a narrow group of interests. And the costs in the long run are borne by people who do not use these systems.

People say my view is unsustainable. I say that is not your choice and I will meet you at the ballot box.

[fbobberts]

Yeah it works and is a good system but you could say the same for the American highway system with a few exceptions like LA of course. The issue for me is the monopoly and government involvement. It's corruption and there's no transparency as to what happens behinds closed doors between these transportation corporations and the government. Just call me a skeptic. No proof, just mighty skeptical.

Exactly what happened in Albuquerque where they built a light rail system to Santa Fe that costs the city millions to run. It's an albatross. Santa Fe is a 50 minute drive north, a nice 50 minute drive north. Once you get to either place, really, you need a car. It made no sense but it doubled my taxes. The guy who built it is gone, thank goodness.

[fbobberts]

We have a GIANT country, and bullet express trains are the perfect solution to cutting fuel costs and mass transit all in one.

Horsecrap. They work in Japan because 90+% of Japan is unlivable, the only place Japanese can live is in ports by the water. So Japan moves goods by sea, and people by train, because this can work there.

In America we can live anywhere and most of us d not want neighbors right next to us, above up, or below us. It is what it is. We do not just live on the periphery of our landmass. We move goods by train., because that can work, but move people by air and by car, because we need the flexibility this provides.

Bullet express trains require immense investment and upkeep. They serve a narrow group of interests at the expense of the many. It would be better to invest in our existing air travel infrastructure, because people actually use this.

[yz1337]

I love cars. I love driving cars. But I would LOVE to not always have to drive them.

Public transportation is awesome, and I wish it were a lot better here.



Public transportation isn't required by Japanese companies, and they don't forbid riding a bike to work. I know you live there, but I find those statements to be false. I lived and worked in Japan for a while too.

I can see though, that driving to work would be a huge inconvenience because there would be no parking.

agreed, I live on the other side of Tokyo from GSM and it is definitely not required, I see people commuting by car and bike everyday, and I don't mean driving down the road, I mean parking in front of their workplace and going to work, or putting the bike in a rack in front of the office. Now, downtown that may not be an option simply because of space, but it is not required to use public transportation.

[classicjetta]

Angry poor person alert.

I own my own house with a brand new kitchen with brand new appliances, have two newer cars, and close to six figures in both salary and assets. But if you want to believe I'm poor, go ahead. Nobody is making you ride the bus/train so go enjoy being stuck in traffic.

[turbinepowered]

In America we can live anywhere and most of us d not want neighbors right next to us, above up, or below us. It is what it is. We do not just live on the periphery of our landmass. We move goods by train., because that can work, but move people by air and by car, because we need the flexibility this provides.

How is air travel "flexible" when trains are not? Both are point to point systems with defined, pre-built endpoints and stopovers.

[Hostile]

Nice find. I will have to watch this in its entirety later.

I do have some comments though: Public transit is well and thriving in the rest of the world. I've always been amazed how USA is so different in this respect. Hopefully this movie will give me some answers.

Because other countries of the world that have great public transport are nowhere near the size of America.

[Hostile]

Public transportation is for poor people and drunks.

That's funny because it's MORE expensive to take the commuter train I used to ride into DC than it cost to drive and park in the city. And that train was full of people that were neither poor or drunk.

[BostonB6]

Horsecrap. They work in Japan because 90+% of Japan is unlivable, the only place Japanese can live is in ports by the water. So Japan moves goods by sea, and people by train, because this can work there.

In America we can live anywhere and most of us d not want neighbors right next to us, above up, or below us. It is what it is. We do not just live on the periphery of our landmass. We move goods by train., because that can work, but move people by air and by car, because we need the flexibility this provides.

Bullet express trains require immense investment and upkeep. They serve a narrow group of interests at the expense of the many. It would be better to invest in our existing air travel infrastructure, because people actually use this.

Agreed 100%. Also, subway commuters in the US would never stand for being physically pushed into trains by "herders".


Waiting for the subway wagon, people line up neatly in pairs and will enter one by one, at least initially, because when the wagon starts to fill up, people will not hesitate to push in order to get inside.

The technique is to enter the wagon backwards while pushing for space with your elbows. You do not see who you are pushing and eye contact at this time is non-existent. By elbowing your way in, you will create a little gap for yourself.

The crucial moment is when you put one foot in the wagon and you can support your hands on the sides of the doors, so you are stronger while pushing your way inside. You might say that “you are saved” at that point.

In order to get out, it only serves to use brute force. Start pushing and get some people to leave you a little room or get them to leave the wagon with you, so that they can re-enter after you got out. There is no other option. At other times you might even miss your stop, get out at the next one and having to return from there.

Remember that no matter how full it seems, there is almost always room for more people and this can be suffocating! So prepare for possible dizziness and breathing the same air that dozens of people have breathed out seconds ago.

[RacingManiac]

I love cars. I love driving cars. But I would LOVE to not always have to drive them.

This. Driving is fun when it is wanted, no so much when it is a necessity. While between population center and going to the countries pretty much requires cars(when flying/train does not make sense). Within each urban sprawl public transit would be pretty useful. Its not like US/Canada don't have system that works. We just don't have many of them...

[Hostile]

Agreed 100%. Also, subway commuters in the US would never stand for being physically pushed into trains by "herders".

When I worked downtown Metro had some delays and the trains were packed. The car I was in was already filled with people and some bitch came onto the train pushing and shoving. Everyone was giving her a "What the f***"? expression and she replies, "It's ok, I lived in Japan". Someone replied, "This isn't Japan you dumb bitch".

[johnny_p]

I use the bus sometimes to get into center city. There is one that will pick me up at my apartment place and take me right in, no stops. 10 minute ride tops. It ends up being cheaper than parking, and I don't have to worry about my car getting backed into by some dope that can't parallel park. I hesitate to use any other bus though. Some are downright scary.

[GodSquadMandrake]

When I worked downtown Metro had some delays and the trains were packed. The car I was in was already filled with people and some bitch came onto the train pushing and shoving. Every was giving her a "What the f***"? and she replies, "It's ok, I lived in Japan". Someone replied, "This isn't Japan you dumb bitch".

hahaha that's exactly what I would expect to happen with an American subway.

[classicjetta]

I use the bus sometimes to get into center city. There is one that will pick me up at my apartment place and take me right in, no stops. 10 minute ride tops. It ends up being cheaper than parking, and I don't have to worry about my car getting backed into by some dope that can't parallel park. I hesitate to use any other bus though. Some are downright scary.

It's a surprising fact: Buses that stop in the ghetto can be scary but ones that go through nice areas are nice. Who'd a thunk?

[turbinepowered]

It's a surprising fact: Buses that stop in the ghetto can be scary but ones that go through nice areas are nice. Who'd a thunk?

Funny thing, in my area it's mostly the poor people trying to keep the bus nicer and all the college kids trashing it up.

[classicjetta]

Funny thing, in my area it's mostly the poor people trying to keep the bus nicer and all the college kids trashing it up.

Fair enough, YMMV in college towns.

[SebTheDJ]

Nice find. I will have to watch this in its entirety later.

I do have some comments though: Public transit is well and thriving in the rest of the world. I've always been amazed how USA is so different in this respect. Hopefully this movie will give me some answers.

I was thinking about this few weeks ago, why us has such piss poor public transit.

Then it occurred to me.

Cars everywhere, fairly cheap in regards to the rest of the world.
You can't go anywhere without a car in US (unless you live in a big city such as NYC).

Car companies/gas companies conspired together to make as much profit as possible in US and has successfully done so by mostly eliminating public transport.


GM actually did this somewhere in california, where they bought out a system and destroyed it...

[GodSquadMandrake]

GM actually did this somewhere in california, where they bought out a system and destroyed it...

Somebody didn't watch the video... although I can't blame you because it's an hour long.

[johnny_p]

It's a surprising fact: Buses that stop in the ghetto can be scary but ones that go through nice areas are nice. Who'd a thunk?

Yeah. There is another bus line that also stops at my apartment. I took it one night because I needed to get back from the train station, and didn't feel like paying $26 for a taxi (bus is a $2 ride). It took me through all the worst neighborhoods of West Philly. I thought I was going to get mugged or killed. Never again. The differences between those two routes are staggering.