Shankys_14's Air Build

[shankys_14]

Let me start off by introducing my self. My name is Shank, I have a MkVI GTI. (Some of you might be following my build in the MK6 section but this is a little different.) Plans are to bag it within the next year hopefully by spring. Point of this thread is to ask questions. Get tips and help. Share my air build with all of you. Meet some cool people (I've met a lot in the MK6 section). And just your normal Vortex Whoring/BSing. Misha will be doing my install. If anyone is interested here's my other thread. CLICK!!

Air Build:
Accuair E-Level
Air Lift Performance Series Front Struts
Air Lift Double Bellow Rear Kit
Accuair VU4 4 Corner Manifold
Dual Viair 444C
Koni Sport Shocks
SMC Water Traps 1/4"
Accuair 5 Gallon tank
EXTA Power Supply


What I have so far:
Accuair E-level
Accuair VU4
Air Lift Performance Series Front Struts
Air Lift Double Bellow Rear Kit
Dual Viair 444C
Koni Sport Shocks
SMC Water Traps 1/4"
Accuair 5 Gallon tank
EXTA Power Supply

Bought and Sold
D-Cups
Air Lift Slam Series XL
SS-5

Here's a pic of my car.


And a bad Photoshop of what it will look like.

[choey]

Misha does an excellent install

[Will@BagRiders]

[llllllll vr6 lllllll]

Out of curiousity is there any reason why you're going with e-level over v2?

[98DUB]

Same exact setup I have except e-level for switchspeed, youll enjoy it!

[shankys_14]

Misha does an excellent install

I've heard nothing but good things about him.

Out of curiousity is there any reason why you're going with e-level over v2?

I want a height based system, compared to pressure based. Mainly because of the fact that I take Family/friends places in my car often. I won't have to worry about changing pressures. Also I'm a sucker for small nick nacks, and the key fob thing is pretty neat.

Same exact setup I have except e-level for switchspeed, youll enjoy it!

Thanks.

[shankys_14]

So my first question to my build.

Can anyone help me decide on port size. I understand if I get 3/8 port on the bag get 3/8 npt to 3/8 pts fitting. But if I get 1/2 port on the bag then get 1/2 npt to 3/8 ptc. So what size port would be better? What are you guys running? I'm leaning towards 3/8 ptc x 1/2 npt? Any help is appreciated.

[OVRWRKD]

I've never dealt with anything but the 1/2" bungs on the SS-5 bags. If 3/8" is available those would be great. A 3/8" NPT to 3/8" PTC is smaller and will give you a little better clearance in the lower control arm. The way the bags install with the d-cups the fitting is on the bottom. Like the setup plan, and Misha does great installs...sometimes calls me for elevel sensors

[MechEngg]

So my first question to my build.

Can anyone help me decide on port size. I understand if I get 3/8 port on the bag get 3/8 npt to 3/8 pts fitting. But if I get 1/2 port on the bag then get 1/2 npt to 3/8 ptc. So what size port would be better? What are you guys running? I'm leaning towards 3/8 ptc x 1/2 npt? Any help is appreciated.

It should make zero difference between the two setups. The only thing that will differ is the actual size of the fitting you are screwing into the bag, how tall it is and how far it extends from the surface of the bag. There is no performance difference and no speed difference.

[98DUB]

3/8 is What i went with, its not to fast at all.

[shankys_14]

I've never dealt with anything but the 1/2" bungs on the SS-5 bags. If 3/8" is available those would be great. A 3/8" NPT to 3/8" PTC is smaller and will give you a little better clearance in the lower control arm. The way the bags install with the d-cups the fitting is on the bottom. Like the setup plan, and Misha does great installs...sometimes calls me for elevel sensors

It should make zero difference between the two setups. The only thing that will differ is the actual size of the fitting you are screwing into the bag, how tall it is and how far it extends from the surface of the bag. There is no performance difference and no speed difference.

3/8 is What i went with, its not to fast at all.

Cool, thanks for the advice guys. With E-level it uses 3/8 air line. So when I order the front strut I'm gonna choose 3/8. I think I'm gonna go with these fittings. With 3/8 PTC x 1/2 NPT for the SS-5. Should that be good? Also when I order my Water Trap I should go with 3/8 then correct? Sorry for all the noobish questions.

[Andrew@ORT]

For the SS-5's, I prefer the Alkon Brass DOT swivel elbows as they hold up better to the elements.

As for the water trap, it's going to depend on which trap you choose as different traps have different NPT sizes. If you get a 1/4" trap, you'll need 1/4" NPT fittings. Then again, what fittings you select is going to be dependent upon the placement of your water trap.

[shankys_14]

For the SS-5's, I prefer the Alkon Brass DOT swivel elbows as they hold up better to the elements.

As for the water trap, it's going to depend on which trap you choose as different traps have different NPT sizes. If you get a 1/4" trap, you'll need 1/4" NPT fittings. Then again, what fittings you select is going to be dependent upon the placement of your water trap.

The more answers the betters. I've heard good things about the Alkon Brass Fittings too! My installer actually recommend those. I'm going to get 2 of the SMC Water Traps. So if I understand correctly, the water trap if I choose 3/8 port size. Then the elbow fitting I should get is 3/8 PTC x 3/8 NPT. And if I get 1/2 port on the trap. Get the fitting for 3/8 PTC x 1/2 NPT?

[Andrew@ORT]

Correct!

How do you plan on integrating them into your system?

Compressor -> Trap -> Tank or Tank -> Trap -> Manifold?

That's the only thing that will determine which fittings you select with your water trap. But to answer your question, you are correct 3/8" x 1/2" NPT PTC if you do the 1/2" trap.

[shankys_14]

Correct!

How do you plan on integrating them into your system?

Compressor -> Trap -> Tank or Tank -> Trap -> Manifold?

That's the only thing that will determine which fittings you select with your water trap. But to answer your question, you are correct 3/8" x 1/2" NPT PTC if you do the 1/2" trap.

Hmm good question. I honestly don't know I'll have to ask my installer I think it was Tank -> Trap -> Manifold. Is there any advantages or disadvantages to either? But thanks for clearing that up for me.

[98DUB]

If youre running one trap then you should go (compressor > tank > trap > manifold). Two traps you should go (compressor > trap > tank > trap > manifold).

The more traps the better, just taking the moisture out of the air. You dont want in moisture in your mainfold. I little moisture in the tank wont kill ya, and you can empty it.

[Andrew@ORT]

If you actually take the time to break down the science behind the compressor and water trap, you'll find that putting the trap after the compressor serves almost no function. The air that the compressor generates is very hot and actually doesn't contain much moisture at all. If you wanted to use the water trap to it's fullest potential, you would actually need to chill the air coming out of the compressor before it hit the trap. In addition to that, seeing as that 90% of the tanks on the market today are aluminum and have a bottom facing drain port, the chance of an explosion is far less. We always suggest running the trap between the manifold and the tank. This way, you can either connect it directly to the tank or run it inline with two PTC fittings.

[shankys_14]

If youre running one trap then you should go (compressor > tank > trap > manifold). Two traps you should go (compressor > trap > tank > trap > manifold).

The more traps the better, just taking the moisture out of the air. You dont want in moisture in your mainfold. I little moisture in the tank wont kill ya, and you can empty it.

I'll be running two traps and dual compressors. So I will probably do the second route.

If you actually take the time to break down the science behind the compressor and water trap, you'll find that putting the trap after the compressor serves almost no function. The air that the compressor generates is very hot and actually doesn't contain much moisture at all. If you wanted to use the water trap to it's fullest potential, you would actually need to chill the air coming out of the compressor before it hit the trap. In addition to that, seeing as that 90% of the tanks on the market today are aluminum and have a bottom facing drain port, the chance of an explosion is far less. We always suggest running the trap between the manifold and the tank. This way, you can either connect it directly to the tank or run it inline with two PTC fittings.

Thanks so much for answering all my questions Andrew.

[Andrew@ORT]

Thanks so much for answering all my questions Andrew.

No problem

[ripNdip]

your going to want to get adjustable endlinks. i have the ksports but there is also the powergrids.

[bryangb]

If you actually take the time to break down the science behind the compressor and water trap, you'll find that putting the trap after the compressor serves almost no function. The air that the compressor generates is very hot and actually doesn't contain much moisture at all. If you wanted to use the water trap to it's fullest potential, you would actually need to chill the air coming out of the compressor before it hit the trap. In addition to that, seeing as that 90% of the tanks on the market today are aluminum and have a bottom facing drain port, the chance of an explosion is far less. We always suggest running the trap between the manifold and the tank. This way, you can either connect it directly to the tank or run it inline with two PTC fittings.

When I was running two traps why did my first trap always fill with water and my second trap didn't produce more than two drops of water in a 2 month time period?

[shankys_14]

your going to want to get adjustable endlinks. i have the ksports but there is also the powergrids.

I'll look into them.

[Rat4Life]

If you actually take the time to break down the science behind the compressor and water trap, you'll find that putting the trap after the compressor serves almost no function. The air that the compressor generates is very hot and actually doesn't contain much moisture at all. If you wanted to use the water trap to it's fullest potential, you would actually need to chill the air coming out of the compressor before it hit the trap. In addition to that, seeing as that 90% of the tanks on the market today are aluminum and have a bottom facing drain port, the chance of an explosion is far less. We always suggest running the trap between the manifold and the tank. This way, you can either connect it directly to the tank or run it inline with two PTC fittings.

science not always right, from my experience i see way more moisture collected by water traps before tank than past the tank.
that why when ppl give me 2 traps i install both of them before the tank with airline between them.
if you look at the trap design the air actually travels trough the filter,by doing so it is removing the moisture from air that was compressed by the piston.
IMG_3619 by misha/rat4life, on Flickr

[Andrew@ORT]

Science isn't always right, and every situation is different. In most cases, if you put them between the tank and the manifold AND you run a drain, you've got two methods of removing moisture. Either way works.

[MechEngg]

I am running 3 water traps

Compressors -> Water trap 1 -> Buffer tank -> Water trap 2 -> Main Tank -> Water trap 3 -> Manifold

Water trap 1 = 1/2 full per month
Buffer tank = about the same amount of water as water trap 1 per month
Water trap 2 = dry
Main tank = dry
Water trap 3 = dry



There are explanations for using traps at both places and why it happens like it does.


Compressor -> water trap -> tank
The first water trap does help to seperate water from the air. Because the compressed air is beyond the saturation point it quite easily drops some of the air from having the air directed against a solid surface. If you don't know why this happens, if you take a look through inside the water trap inlet, you will notice that as the air enters, there is a surface perpendicular to the flow of the air, this makes the air directly hit the surface. Since the water particles in the air are heavier than the air, their momentum is different. The difference in momentum is what helps to seperate the water in the first water trap. Of course this only works to get rid of the water that is present above the saturation point of the air. That is why you get water in the first trap.

In the tank right after the initial water trap (99% of people's main tank), there is air currently in there. This air is at ambient temperature, and thus quite a bit cooler in temperature than the hot air coming from the compressors through the water trap. So what happens is that the hot saturated air (no extra water at this point because of the first water trap) gets pushed through the air line and then into the large reservoir of cool air. This instant mixing of the temperatures causes a drastic cooling of the hot air coming in, causing it to condensate almost immediately. This is what causes the water to form on the bottom of the tank.

The water trap after the main tank, in between the tank and the manifold, is mainly used for physical particle separation so that nothing gets into your manifold. The only way it will start to collect water is if you only run a trap after the tank and the compressors are running for a long enough time so that the ambient temperature of the main tank rises to an ineffective level and can no longer cause the hot air to condensate.


Tank -> Water trap -> Manifold
In this case the saturated air enters directly into the tank and will experience an almost full condensation. The temperature difference however might not cause a full full condensation effect and a tiny bit of water may be left in the air still. This will collect in the water trap, as well as the trap acting as a particle separator. The particles include aluminum oxides and rust, depending on what tank you have as well as tiny bits of teflon tape if you used the tape instead of paste.



So from this if you only have the budget for 1 water trap i would place it AFTER THE TANK, just so you are guaranteed physical particle barrier and nothing gets into the manifold. Your tank will just get a bit more water in it and need to be emptied more often.

[Squirrel Nuts]

I run my trap between my manifold and compressor. I don't want water in my manifolds and I don't mind water in my tank seeing as I have a drain **** and drain it. I actually get no water in my trap unless I don't drain it for 2 months or so.

[98DUB]

I run my trap between my manifold and compressor.

You pump straight from your compressors to the manifold, no tank?

[MechEngg]

You pump straight from your compressors to the manifold, no tank?

Of course he runs it somewhere between the start of the system and the end of the system

[Will@BagRiders]

After five weeks of running one trap pre-tank and one trap post-tank, the results are in.

The trap with water in it on the left was used pre-tank, the dry trap on the right was post-tank.

[MechEngg]

After five weeks of running one trap pre-tank and one trap post-tank, the results are in.

The trap with water in it on the left was used pre-tank, the dry trap on the right was post-tank.

I don't think that this was a fair unbiased test Will. You ran both traps at the same time, hence the results from the first trap altered the results of the second trap. If you wanted to truly show people the effects you should have ran one month with just the first trap then one month with just the second trap.

[98DUB]

I don't think that this was a fair unbiased test Will. You ran both traps at the same time, hence the results from the first trap altered the results of the second trap. If you wanted to truly show people the effects you should have ran one month with just the first trap then one month with just the second trap.

yeah Will, youre not even giving trap 2 a chance to work

[Will@BagRiders]

I don't think that this was a fair unbiased test Will. You ran both traps at the same time, hence the results from the first trap altered the results of the second trap. If you wanted to truly show people the effects you should have ran one month with just the first trap then one month with just the second trap.

Fair point Sean, but keep in mind, even with the first trap in place (between the compressor and tank), some moisture will still make it's way into the tank. (I know that you're already well aware of this since your setup utilizes a cooling tank). The fact is, during our test, none of the moisture that made it into the tank went on further into the second trap.

[MechEngg]

Fair point Sean, but keep in mind, even with the first trap in place (between the compressor and tank), some moisture will still make it's way into the tank. (I know that you're already well aware of this since your setup utilizes a cooling tank). The fact is, during our test, none of the moisture that made it into the tank went on further into the second trap.

Yeah i completely agree that water will make it into the tank even if you used the first trap. But if you were to run ONLY the second trap i bet you would see 90% water in the tank and actually get 10% water in the second water trap, try it out and see

[98DUB]

Fair point Sean, but keep in mind, even with the first trap in place (between the compressor and tank), some moisture will still make it's way into the tank. (I know that you're already well aware of this since your setup utilizes a cooling tank). The fact is, during our test, none of the moisture that made it into the tank went on further into the second trap.

So you still had moisture in your tank and had to empty it right? I assume that without that first trap, you would just have that much more water in your tank, and that trap 2 would be acutally doing work.

[Squirrel Nuts]

You pump straight from your compressors to the manifold, no tank?

who needs a tank bro?














I meant I run it between my tank and manifold. Been a long day today.