Samsung owes Apple 1+ billion

[Saintor]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87N13V20120824

Apple Inc. scored a sweeping legal victory over Samsung on Friday as a U.S. jury found the Korean company had copied critical features of the hugely popular iPhone and iPad and awarded the U.S. company $1.051 billion in damages.

The verdict -- which came much sooner than expected -- could lead to an outright ban on sales of key Samsung products and will likely solidify Apple's dominance of the exploding mobile computing market.

The part in bold is interesting.

[Vision33r]

Not surprised at all since Samsung's Touchwhiz closely mirrors many of Apple's minor touches to lure customers that wants a iClone phone.

Google's Nexus phones have many elements intentionally different than iPhones to stay away from patents.

I hope both Sammy and Apple can settle out of court instead of going toe to toe in the courts.

[AZGolf]

Apple should be throwing a party now. That increases their cash reserves by 1%!! Now instead of having $100 billion sitting around doing nothing, they will have $101 billion in their bank account doing nothing!

[WhistlerYOW]

Well if they do ban them I'm glad I already got my S3... I was a previous iPhone user and this thing kicks the crap out of any apple products right now. I couldn't go back.

Kinda sad that this is what it comes too. Samsung has the biggest marketshare right now. If apple wants to come back the answer is better product not lawsuits.

[Egilbe]

Well if they do ban them I'm glad I already got my S3... I was a previous iPhone user and this thing kicks the crap out of any apple products right now. I couldn't go back.

Kinda sad that this is what it comes too. Samsung has the biggest marketshare right now. If apple wants to come back the answer is better product not lawsuits.

It won't be the S3, it's the S2 that Apple had issues with.

[Sortafast]

It won't be the S3, it's the S2 that Apple had issues with.

Actually it was the Galaxy S. Here's an interesting comparison of the issues:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/cus...re-Design.html

[joe97]

Actually it was the Galaxy S. Here's an interesting comparison of the issues:

http://peanutbuttereggdirt.com/e/cus...re-Design.html

Is the S still being sold?

[Hostile]

I hope both Sammy and Apple can settle out of court instead of going toe to toe in the courts.

Are you high? It's too late to settle. They already have gone "toe-to-toe" in the courts and a jury has reached a verdict.

[Vision33r]

The jurors already made up their minds on day 1 if you read their story. Basically Samsung was guilty from their email conversations and then dodging questions.

Google and Samsung are already guilty in the public court of opinion the year after they rolled out Android devices after the iPhone which certainly does not help them.

Had Google worked out a deal with Apple in 2007, things wouldn't be so difficult. Of course, it wasn't gonna happen since Eric Schmidt got kicked out of the Board of Directors at Apple when Steve Jobs accused him of funneling the iPhone info over to Google.

Some may say that Apple wouldn't license their patents but they have, they got patent deals with Nokia and Microsoft. A deal with Samsung was on the table but they didn't want to pay $8-15/device to Apple. Which is kind of retarded when you think that Apple is Samsung's customer and all they have to do is re-negotiate deals to sneak the numbers into their margins.

Now they're forced to shell out more dough to get appeals court to review the case and very rarely cases like this get over turned. Look at NTP vs RIM, that was completely BS.

I think overall this is good for Android and Google and Samsung start to differentiate their offerings.

[Vision33r]

Are you high? It's too late to settle. They already have gone "toe-to-toe" in the courts and a jury has reached a verdict.

No, you're blind. There are many Samsung vs Apple cases across the globe still pending.

[Hostile]

No, you're blind. There are many Samsung vs Apple cases across the globe still pending.

How are any of the other cases relevant when this thread is about $1 Billion award to Apple from Friday.

[Sortafast]

Is the S still being sold?

I don't know, but legal proceedings take time. The original lawsuit was filed in April 2011.

[Seabird]

Here is the list of phones that Apple is asking to be banned:
Galaxy S 4G
Galaxy S2 (AT&T)
Galaxy S2 (Skyrocket)
Galaxy S2 (T-Mobile)
Galaxy S2 Epic 4G
Galaxy S Showcase
Droid Charge
Galaxy Prevail

The Galaxy line is expected, but the Droid Charge surprises me.

This is just the first shot across the bow since Jobs promised to go "thermonuclear" against Google since he viewed Android as a personal betrayal. What's going to be real interesting is how the courts handle Motorola's (nee, Google since they now own Motorola) patent suits against Apple. It's possible that Apple's victory against Samsung will create a precedent that will come back to haunt them. I'm actually hopeful that this verdict will help to break the logjam in the technical patent wars that have been on-going for the last couple of years.

[Vision33r]

Here is the list of phones that Apple is asking to be banned:
Galaxy S 4G
Galaxy S2 (AT&T)
Galaxy S2 (Skyrocket)
Galaxy S2 (T-Mobile)
Galaxy S2 Epic 4G
Galaxy S Showcase
Droid Charge
Galaxy Prevail

The Galaxy line is expected, but the Droid Charge surprises me.

This is just the first shot across the bow since Jobs promised to go "thermonuclear" against Google since he viewed Android as a personal betrayal. What's going to be real interesting is how the courts handle Motorola's (nee, Google since they now own Motorola) patent suits against Apple. It's possible that Apple's victory against Samsung will create a precedent that will come back to haunt them. I'm actually hopeful that this verdict will help to break the logjam in the technical patent wars that have been on-going for the last couple of years.

It's strategically selected to not piss off AT&T and Verizon as none of these devices really affect their current sales. Most of them are being given away for free on contract currently.

We don't see the big AT&T sellers such as the Galaxy Note and S3 even though the TouchWhiz interface is nearly identical between all generations. In fact I thought the S3 actually had more Apple like features such as S-voice(Siri clone), Video editing(storybook), and Photo tap to zoom patents.

Google didn't want to waste any ammo helping Samsung since the next Nexus Phone is probably Motorola they will have to defend against Apple soon. The FRAND patents they were shooting at Apple will backfire and probably get them fined too.

The bottomline is that when you release something to market so fast without patents it's like unprotected sex.

[Seabird]

This has got to be a hoax.

http://en.paperblog.com/samsung-pays...-coins-294795/

This morning more than 30 trucks filled with 5-cent coins arrived at Apple’s headquarters in California. Initially, the security company that protects the facility said the trucks were in the wrong place, but minutes later, Tim Cook (Apple CEO) received a call from Samsung CEO explaining that they will pay $1 billion dollars for the fine recently ruled against the South Korean company in this way.

the funny part is that the signed document does not specify a single payment method, so Samsung is entitled to send the creators of the iPhone their billion dollars in the way they deem best.

This dirty but genius geek troll play is a new headache to Apple executives as they will need to put in long hours counting all that money, to check if it is all there and to try to deposit it crossing fingers to hope a bank will accept all the coins.

Lee Kun-hee, Chairman of Samsung Electronics, told the media that his company is not going to be intimidated by a group of “geeks with style” and that if they want to play dirty, they also know how to do it.

You can use your coins to buy refreshments at the little machine for life or melt the coins to make computers, that’s not my problem, I already paid them and fulfilled the law.

A total of 20 billion coins, delivery hope to finish this week.

Let’s see how Apple will respond to this.

[Sortafast]

This has got to be a hoax.

http://en.paperblog.com/samsung-pays...-coins-294795/

It's a hoax.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...s-nickels-fake

[GreenandChrome]

How are any of the other cases relevant when this thread is about $1 Billion award to Apple from Friday.

Have you not learned? He'll beat you with experience.

The appeal process will be fun to watch. The $1B judgement most likely won't be upheld.

[WhistlerYOW]

http://www.thestar.com/business/scie...onsumer-choice

Looks like apple wants to go after the S3 and note. Funny how this comes after leaks about the iPhone 5 show it probably won't even match the specs of the S3... let alone exceed them.

If you can't beat em... ban them!

This bickering is also probably going to be a good thing for windows phone 8.

[dragonfli_x]

i would agree... I got a chance to look through Samsung's 132-page iPhone to Samsung Galaxy document and it's as obvious as it sits... the three month difference in time between the iPhone release and the SG was literally month 1 documenting everything they could about what they loved about the iPhone, comparing it with their current designs with android, and sending it to execs and managers to review and highlight their current lacks and fill them with iPhone-like cues - "without looking too similar to the iPhone" - then the last month to get the programmers and developers to meet the "new, improved, and innovated" Galaxy! .... Samsung totally deserved to get burned...

but I think Apple needs to let the whole touch navigation method of multitouch go... either that or everyone else who supposedly copied apple's "mobile implementation" of said gestures needs to pay up... why is that even worth fighting over? I don't see a lot of grey to get iffy over.

[Egilbe]

The Galaxy SIII is superior to the iphone in just about every way. How is that a copy?

[dragonfli_x]

Apple's case dates to it's first iteration of the iPhone... so if you're going to spew forth oblivious time warp comparisons... that's fine... I know the 3GS is leaps and bounds better than the iPhone, or the iPhone 3G, or the 4, or whatever gen they've got running for them... litigations apparently take forever sometimes.

So let's go back to Samsung's roots... and their first touchwiz iteration months after apple's iPhone hit the streets. According to the trial, within 3 months of the products release, Samsung enveils their newest innovative flagship... the Volks-iFon for the masses... looks like the iPhone from afar, but not... feels kinda like the iPhone, but not... acts kinda like the iPhone, but not ... but cheaper than the iPhone?! Hells yeah! clones and copies have always existed ever since "manufactured in China" got big, and normally, the fakes remained regional in distribution.

Samsung did it's copying, but went full bore mainstream with it... and it was "innovative" because they pretty much made the iphone in Android, without proprietary OS or magic hardware, apple elitism, and the sold it so much cheaper! that's samsung's hook.... take what exists and make it better and make it cheaper... so fast forward now, Samsung/google have matured with some great advancements... well, Google's android did, samsung - not so much... Android has gotten better and evolved way faster than iOS... it's the OS that grew, samsung... they haven't found anything else to copy and make better lately, so IMHO they've gone stale. what has samsung really truly innovated aside from a product done cheaper?

[WhistlerYOW]

Apple's case dates to it's first iteration of the iPhone... so if you're going to spew forth oblivious time warp comparisons... that's fine... I know the 3GS is leaps and bounds better than the iPhone, or the iPhone 3G, or the 4, or whatever gen they've got running for them... litigations apparently take forever sometimes.

So let's go back to Samsung's roots... and their first touchwiz iteration months after apple's iPhone hit the streets. According to the trial, within 3 months of the products release, Samsung enveils their newest innovative flagship... the Volks-iFon for the masses... looks like the iPhone from afar, but not... feels kinda like the iPhone, but not... acts kinda like the iPhone, but not ... but cheaper than the iPhone?! Hells yeah! clones and copies have always existed ever since "manufactured in China" got big, and normally, the fakes remained regional in distribution[


Samsung did it's copying, but went full bore mainstream with it... and it was "innovative" because they pretty much made the iphone in Android, without proprietary OS or magic hardware, apple elitism, and the sold it so much cheaper! that's samsung's hook.... take what exists and make it better and make it cheaper... so fast forward now, Samsung/google have matured with some great advancements... well, Google's android did, samsung - not so much... Android has gotten better and evolved way faster than iOS... it's the OS that grew, samsung... they haven't found anything else to copy and make better lately, so IMHO they've gone stale. what has samsung really truly innovated aside from a product done cheaper?

Lol. You do realize all iPhones are made in China right?

Apple hasn't innovated since the original iPhone. And from all reports I've seen they won't be going anywhere with the 5 either. They can take a little dent out of Samsung with their lawsuits but unless they start innovating again it will just be a drop in the bucket while they keep bleeding market share to android. Even if they some how got all Samsung products banned they won't stop HTC, Motorola, windows phone, etc.

I was an iPhone die hard for years but went with an sgs 3 this time. I didn't want to waste an upgrade on a new phone that was only slightly better than my old one (3gs to 4S or 5). As a consumer I don't care if Samsung innovated or copied someone. I mean what good is being able to say "well I got the real McCoy" when the "copy" is superior in every measurable quantity. All I care is that they build the most powerful handset on the market that does everything and iPhone can and more, and looks better and faster doing it. AND it cost more than the iPhone so it wasn't a financial concern.

I give credit to apple for the original iPhone, but I don't feel bad for them. They set out to change the concept of the cellphone, which they did, and which everyone else followed and improved upon the concept. What did they expect? But at the end of the day the consumers will buy the best end product. It would be like if Ford built the Model T and just sued everyone that built a better car on the assembly line. We'd all still be driving model Ts.

FWIW I'm not a Samsung fanboy. They happen to build the best phone right now. Maybe in a month Motorola will. Or maybe HTC. who knows. But at the end of the day a lawsuit won't stop them all. Apple needs to step it up with the iPhone.

[Egilbe]

Apple is fighting the same losing war that RIM wouldn't fight. They have been passed by and they are no longer relevant in the cell phone market. They just refuse to admit that their time has come and gone.

[dragonfli_x]

Lol. You do realize all iPhones are made in China right?

oh no, I totally agree with what you're saying... Apple's done good in their own right... big kudos to them for flipping the mobile world on it's head and introducing an extremely intuitive form and functional smart phone for the avg joe (who can afford it). but apple's beef was with first generations... now the playground is different, android has evolved into a much better OS than iOS could ever be. But as it stands, I am a fan of neither operating system and my choice would still be the archaic aging symbian OS with nokia hardware. but we can discuss that later.

I know nearly every smart phone has been manufactured in china - that's why I mentioned it... if you go to chinese websites, you can see a nearly visual verbatim knock off apple iPhone down to the apple logo... but selling for $150, dual simcard quadband, 4Gbits of memory, some java OS, and resistive touch... Samsung did do their own copy justice by modifying little LITTLE things here and there, but it was a still too much of a copy that left them open to Apple's anal retentiveness...

APPLE's goal was not to throw out a new model every 6 months and I'm happy with that... was it once a year? they did minor upgrades? except when it went to the 3 to 4 generation the body changed, innerds changed and things got better, if you were willing to cough out the blood money for it! I think they put too much time into the design of their phones that they cannot mentally afford to do a physical change as often as all these other companies have been able to do. I feel the older companies are like that and it's the newer companies that watch and tweak with no real design features to differentiate themselves from the next.

I guess my beef was i recently had the blinds lifted from my eyes about Samsung and their innovative mindset and it's semi-fallacy. their Touchwiz system should be destroyed, and let them start over to actually come forth with SOME innovation... like nokia has, or like HTC (first adopters of the Android OS), or Motorola (they've got patents galore), or even Apple! (I know they didn't invent anything, but they mixed together things people never thought could be useful on a mobile device)... I haven't really been impressed by anything samsung really has made... and they showed their new note with the stylus return... the innovation was a throw back to linux stylus UI systems and 2003-2005 Tablet PC generation with stylus pens everywhere... complacent... can't think of a single reason to choose to get those or anything that's samsung or android (in general).

just for the record, I thought Daimler-Benz had the first car out. or were you refering strictly to the assembly line?

[WhistlerYOW]

oh no, I totally agree with what you're saying... Apple's done good in their own right... big kudos to them for flipping the mobile world on it's head and introducing an extremely intuitive form and functional smart phone for the avg joe (who can afford it). but apple's beef was with first generations... now the playground is different, android has evolved into a much better OS than iOS could ever be. But as it stands, I am a fan of neither operating system and my choice would still be the archaic aging symbian OS with nokia hardware. but we can discuss that later.

I know nearly every smart phone has been manufactured in china - that's why I mentioned it... if you go to chinese websites, you can see a nearly visual verbatim knock off apple iPhone down to the apple logo... but selling for $150, dual simcard quadband, 4Gbits of memory, some java OS, and resistive touch... Samsung did do their own copy justice by modifying little LITTLE things here and there, but it was a still too much of a copy that left them open to Apple's anal retentiveness...

APPLE's goal was not to throw out a new model every 6 months and I'm happy with that... was it once a year? they did minor upgrades? except when it went to the 3 to 4 generation the body changed, innerds changed and things got better, if you were willing to cough out the blood money for it! I think they put too much time into the design of their phones that they cannot mentally afford to do a physical change as often as all these other companies have been able to do. I feel the older companies are like that and it's the newer companies that watch and tweak with no real design features to differentiate themselves from the next.

I guess my beef was i recently had the blinds lifted from my eyes about Samsung and their innovative mindset and it's semi-fallacy. their Touchwiz system should be destroyed, and let them start over to actually come forth with SOME innovation... like nokia has, or like HTC (first adopters of the Android OS), or Motorola (they've got patents galore), or even Apple! (I know they didn't invent anything, but they mixed together things people never thought could be useful on a mobile device)... I haven't really been impressed by anything samsung really has made... and they showed their new note with the stylus return... the innovation was a throw back to linux stylus UI systems and 2003-2005 Tablet PC generation with stylus pens everywhere... complacent... can't think of a single reason to choose to get those or anything that's samsung or android (in general).

just for the record, I thought Daimler-Benz had the first car out. or were you refering strictly to the assembly line?

I don't get what is so unoriginal about touch wiz though, compared to other android skins. From what ive seen they are all exactly that, skins. The core features of the android OS have nothing to do with touch wiz, that is just the visual flavour... I've used most the different android phones and there isn't much more to the skin than the superficial visual stuff.

[dragonfli_x]

I don't get what is so unoriginal about touch wiz though, compared to other android skins. From what ive seen they are all exactly that, skins. The core features of the android OS have nothing to do with touch wiz, that is just the visual flavour... I've used most the different android phones and there isn't much more to the skin than the superficial visual stuff.

I totally feel like an apple fanboy and I really don't like them... I truly believe that the iphone came out, Samsung immediately went back to their designers and said make their Galaxy line look like that! Here, we'll even give you this 132 page document so you know exactly what we want you to copy.. You could say the rest is history... but it's a bit fishy because it's Google's Android that was doing most of the back end stuff which would account for the gestures and baseline feel, but it's the touchwiz that added the visual cues, the icons that looked uncommonly similar to the iPhone's even though HTC's G1 and other companies throwing out their own UI did not copy them as badly as Samsung did. Even the hardware design and things that differentiated the iPhone itself from EVERY phone in the market seemed to be lifted and ported directly over onto Samsung's version so well, that a large chunk of non-tech-savvy consumers thought Apple and Samsung were the same company and Samsung was the lower end model but still had the same features... Us geeks would have known the difference, but not everyone can be as bright as us! And people really bought into it thinking they were getting an Apple product just under the Samsung name. Make's you feel a little dirty if you think about it.

But a we both agreed earlier, now is a different story... the rest of the world has gone way beyond the original iOS and most of the succeeding even their newest iOS. But at the time, motorola, nokia, htc, (pick a company that's not part of the Chinese knock-off mafia (in China) or samsung) and everyone made sure their look, their functionality, their icon usage was not to be so obvious.

[Vision33r]

Even Android users have accused Samsung of dumbing down Android with Touchwhiz, it's public knowledge.

When I go to a wealthy friend's house and see all the nice painting he has on the wall, they're all very good copies of the original. All painted in China, the best nation at copying famous paintings.

[dragonfli_x]

Even Android users have accused Samsung of dumbing down Android with Touchwhiz, it's public knowledge.

When I go to a wealthy friend's house and see all the nice painting he has on the wall, they're all very good copies of the original. All painted in China, the best nation at copying famous paintings.

Lol -the only thing worse than that is if your friend had no idea that he had a MIC (made in China) edition and thought it was the real thing...and purchased it at the "real" price... eeeww

[VDubby18]

Very hypocritical of Apple. Especially when Jobs admitted that "Apple steals, shamelessly."

Either way... I myself converted to Android several months ago.

[AZGolf]

I mean what good is being able to say "well I got the real McCoy" when the "copy" is superior in every measurable quantity.

Along those lines, there was a fake iPhone ad for T-Mobile on the tmonews.com website a little while ago: