So it was hot today and didn't feel like crawling around in the dirt so I still have not tried to drill this out. But I was kinda bored so I went and found the cap nut that the broken bolt is sitting in.
So I was thinking if I could really get the bolt soaked with PB it would probably make things much easier when I go to back it out. I was thinking about drilling a very small hole into the top center of the cap nut, and then loading the empty space above the bolt with PB. Then let it soak in for a few days and try to remove it on my next day off. This seems like a decent plan, but was wondering if
it would be a bad idea to drill the small hole.
I started to drill then I stopped because one I broke the bit, and two I wasn't sure if this was a good idea or not.
I've heard of guys chopping up the floorboards and the chopping out that whole piece that holds the captive receiver and then welding in another one that they chopped out of a parts car.
I would probably not want to deal with all of that, unless nothing else worked, and would probably try to gradually drill out enough of the broken bolt with smaller bits first, and going on to bigger bits to get a big extractor in it to remove it, as mentioned above. Have a bunch of spare bits on hand and maybe a drill doctor to keep them sharp.
The broken part that came out looks pretty clean, I doubt that it was rusted in place to begin with. You probably just heated it up when you were taking it out and it fatigued. Don't pay any attention to GCN, he likes to offer up the most complicated solution possible to everyone's problems in order to portray himself as an elitist big-time mechanic or to make you feel stupid. I usually don't even bother to read his vomit anymore after he gave me horrible advice on how to fix a door hinge problem that I was having.
Next time you have a nut/bolt/retainer that you know or think will be stubborn, soak it with the PB Blaster the night before, and again a few minutes before you begin work, and then the first thing that you do when you get your wrench on it is to TIGHTEN it about one mm first, then begin to loosen it. As you go every half turn or so, tighten it back up a little to help chase the threads out, and pause every couple of revs to spray with more blaster to lubricate it and let it cool.
Do you ever make comments where you actually know something about what you're commenting on?
Heated up, and it fatigued? Is that supposed to be a technical reason for the bolt breaking? It was supposed to be a grade 10.9 bolt. In your expert opinion, how much torque would it take to break that bolt, and if it was already turning out like the OP stated, and was not rusty, why did it break?
Talk about vomit. Your comments to other people's threads and the threads you start read like posts from an airhead talking to himself to hear his own voice.
The bolt probably broke because it heated up from friction, and that fatigued it. Perhaps it was over-tightened to begin with, which damaged it. Maybe it's not the right bolt. Who knows? It doesn't matter, since it's broken at this time. I'm not sure how replacing his sub-frame is supposed to fix that. I do know that those are stretch bolts, so maybe it had been over-tightened or used too many times, and that could have had something to do with it. I also know that you like to offer complicated and convoluted "solutions" to people, instead of giving them good advice. Due to all of the crap that you post, I hate you and everything that you stand for, and I don't even know you! You've been doing it for so long, you don't even know the difference anymore! One day, you're going to get someone hurt or killed, and you'll have to live with that, not me, pal.
You just don't get it.
Since you don't work on your own car, don't own a Bentley, and you don't understand how the parts of your car work, you probably don't understand how a drill works, or how to use a broken bolt extractor. You certainly don't understand how bolts break.
The broken off bolt is recessed close to an inch inside a small diameter hole. The PO says the the broken off piece might be an inch long. Just how do you suggest that the PO, with his limits skills and limited tool selection precision drill a hole for a distance of a minimum of two inches from the nose of the drill, through a harden bolt, when he can't see the broken bolt?
Remove the subframe and the lower control arm, improve visual access, and decrease the distance from the drill bit to the target surface by 1/2 the distance. Improve the chance of sucess with a minimum of collateral damage. And then, replace the rusty subframe (and the control arms if they are as rusty) because they're already off the car, and there's no reason to reinstall junk parts.
Most likely, the bolt just had some crud on it and as it was coming out some of the crap piled up and seized the bolt. Or there could have been some galling of the bolt.
Making power, 4 valves at a time.
MkIII 16v Club.
If the OP has no safe way to lift the car up to work on it, and he doesn't have any intention of buying or borrow the right tools to do the job, he should take/tow the car to a shop where a competent and safe repair can be done.
I don't hustle parts for a living on Vortex. Is that what you do, sell rusty parts? Obviously you don't have any mechanical experience or knowledge. I don't have a subframe for sale (I sold the ones from the cars I parted out years ago for $50 each, including the lower control arms, and the swaybar, because I had no use for them), and even if I did have a spare, I'd still tell the OP to find a local replacement he can go over to, and inspect before he buys.
This is how far it is to the bolt lodged in the captive nut...not even 2" in fact it is shorter than a fluted bolt extractor.
When I drill the hole I will be stepping it from smallest to largest, so it will resemble a cone, this way the bolt extractor will have the most amount of surface to grab onto. After the PB trickles down and lubricates the entire thread surface area I doubt it will be much trouble to back it out, without the PB in there I'm sure it would not work as well. There was no rust on the bolt and I doubt it was installed correctly, or replaced the last time it was apart. You can see the corrosion clearly. This bolt does not appear to be of good quality like the ones I got from the dealer.
This is another interesting thread with lots of arguing. You all should read it. It specifically deals with these bolts.
I'm sure Germancarnut51 will recognize this thread when he reads it. One thing I have learned about getting feedback from others is that you take what you can apply and let the rest fly. You make your own educated decision and go from there, even if you are wrong. It's called learning from your mistakes.
I have Thursday, Friday and Sat off this week and will fix this by Sunday come hell or high water.
Yeah, I recognize that thread.
The whole arguement in that Thread stems from John Stamos not knowing the difference between Torque To Yield Tightening and the bolts that are used that way, AND Torque Angle Tightening. Two similar ways to tighten bolts, one which requires the replacement of the bolts each time they are removed, and the other, a tightening method considered to be more accurate than using a torque wrench that does not require the replacement of the bolt each time it's removed.
I provided John Stamos with the link to a magazine article that explained the difference and how people can confuse one with the other. But he still contends that only Torque To Yield exists. Then again, he never admits that he's wrong, no matter how much evidence is provided to prove him wrong. He's another inexperienced talking head that you would be better off ignoring.
In the past he's given people advice on the oil weight to run in their engines, that contrary to what both VW and the oil manufacturers recommend, because he claims to know better. And he claims that solid brake rotors dissipate heat better and faster than vented rotors, and that "Racers" use solid brake rotors instead of vented brake rotors for that reason alone.
OP, that corrosion looked like anti-seize in the pics. You should take that broken fastener and compare the bolt width, and the thread thickness and pitch to the new oem one. If they are different, you might not be able to simply remove the old piece and slap in the new one, if the bolt was not the right one and the captive nut threads have been galled out or stripped due to that.
I had already corrected your ASSumptions that I don't have knowledge or experience, or proper literature, when you were trying to convince me that I needed to buy a new door to fix a bad hinge. Thanks for clearing up the TTY fastener argument though, I'll admit that I thought those rear bolts were stretch bolts.
Anyway, have fun sucking down alcohol and painkillers while you spend the majority of days here on vwvortex, you seem to need this place so you can post the same things over and over again, in order to keep your fragile ego intact. Maybe *you* should listen to *yourself* talk once in a while, and you'll realize what a talking head sounds like .
So I suppose replacing these bolts is not necessary but if you live in the Northeast or areas where there is a lot of corrosion, I would replace them. The total at the dealer was $15.40 for all four not $24. First they said 24$ on the phone then I went there and they said 15$...I didn't say a word.
So apparently all this thread is missing is Stamos's 2 cents. I'll be waiting.
If its corrosion you may see evidence of pitting on those threads. If its anti seize maybe it shouldnt be on there. The bentley proccedure for installing these bolts tells you to make sure there is no waxy substance on the bolts. Maybe it would have been better to use a impact gun to remove these bolts(bangs it loose first)? regardless I think the safest way to deal with this, is too remove the entire subframe so it gives you better access for drilling and extracting. make sure you center punch bolt first before you start drilling. gl
my rusty rebuild
In places where they salt the roads, no car can be repaired clinically by the manual. You have to work around the rust, it's just an extra hurdle.
Also, it takes a keyboard commando to know one. You give a lot of ****ty advice; I suggest going outside once in a while
Originally Posted by soccergk