can someone post a side by side using an 04-08 RX8? The 09s are just so hideous.
I actually agree with this.
The hype for these toyobaru cars is becoming ridiculous. Not just here on TCL but, even at local car meets here in the DFW area. Someone always brings the BR-Z/FR-S into the topic of conversation and talks about how well it handles, it has RWD, it's cheap, and blah, blah, blah.
Imo, it is a "sporty" economy car and nothing more.
Flame suit on for impending attacks from the toyobaru fan club.
Last edited by JDBVR6; 09-02-2012 at 12:51 AM.
I actually saw my second BRZ tonight, technically the first in the wild despite a handful of Scions around. The first was a dealer car by the Tour De Road America/Subaru booth a few weeks ago at ALMS.
It's good to hear honest thoughts from an everyman and not a journalist. Thanks to you and the other owners who have shared input about the car, most especially mpgs and car seats. My wife is going to love hearing all about it.
Last edited by patrikman; 09-02-2012 at 01:08 AM.
Nice try, but if you saw my car or knew what was done to it you would know that I am the furthest from the "stance" scene as possible.
Don't get me wrong. I am not a FR-S/BR-Z hater at all. I actually think the toyobaru is a good looking car. It's just when people talk it up so much like it's a 300k exotic supercar (i.e. Lambo Aventador) it just frustrates me.
if it had 250-300hp would everyone adore it? if so, why don't I see 370Zs on every street in America?
and the RX-8 is a mediocre car. The 4 door thing was neat, but I found it brutally uncomfortable, and the gas mileage was unforgiveable.
Last edited by yz1337; 09-02-2012 at 03:15 AM.
Lmao!!! You have to be either really dumb or just an individual with no life.
I am actually flattered you took the time to actually look-up my car and find a post I made 4 months ago. A lot has happened since then son!
What's even funnier is the fact that my car stock, even without a stage 1 tune can beat the toyobaru. Now it won't even be a contest. My car isn't even meant to be some sports car, its a 5-door wagon grocery getter. The fact that it (in stock form) can outperform a vehicle advertised as a "sports car" does not reflect well on the toyobaru.
I am going to tell you now that I am not interested at all in the magazine times you are undoubtedly going to post up to refute my point. I track and road race several times a year and have already had my run ins with the FR-S at the local tracks up here in Denton. Which furthers my reasoning for trying to understand the hype for this car.
Last edited by JDBVR6; 09-02-2012 at 03:49 AM.
I have to say that I am baffled that somebody like you who has considerable experience tracking an A3 doesn't seem to understand what makes the FR-S an attractive proposition. I haven't had enough real world experience to be a fan boy of the cars, but the tried and true recipe of lightweight, well balanced, low CG, front engine RWD chassis is so well known and accepted I don't understand how you can possibly have issues with the attention/hype this car is getting.
As someone who tracks, you should know better than anybody that there is a lot more to what makes a car enjoyable besides how much power it has and how fast it is. Adding power to a car is easy. Creating a good chassis is not. Barring pro race team budgets, you live with the chassis that you start with.
I worked as an engineer at VW for several years and I have a lot of experience with A3's and it's a decent comfortable and practical daily driver, but a sports car it is not. As with any car you can add power and suspension tweaks, but that will never change the fact that its a fwd based chassis meant for commuting, not tracking or hard driving. Surely you must have noticed the slews and slews of Miata's and E30's that show up at track days? Everybody knows they are not the fastest things around the track, but the recipe of lightweight, RWD, affordable balanced chassis is a hit with drivers nonetheless.
The FR-S/BR-Z is FINALLY a new option for drivers interested in those attributes and I for one hope it brings back the entry level lightweight RWD sporty car niche that the miata/E30/240/etc started ~20 years ago. We are long overdue for that niche to come back and I don't think there can be any true redblooded driving enthusiast, especially one who tracks and understands cars on a level beyond outright power and straight-line speed, can possibly have any issues with the interest this new car is generating.
You make it sound like it's been decades since someone made a proper sports car.
Fact of the matter is this.. even if you continue to not acknowledge that a 5.0 mustang costs on par with this car and will SMOKE IT - EVEN IN THE TURNS - then fine - they discontinued the great (drivers cars) s2000 and rx8 2 or 3 years back. Miata is still available.
It's not like this was ever a dead niche - and for the power that the twins come with - it's not a great sports car. In fact I believe it to be hurting this niche because now nissan and honda have both had high ranking executives give press statements saying things like "it is interesting to see how a low powered piece of **** like this can sell - we'll probably make our own versions" This car is damaging what car manufacturers judge to be a sports car.
The chassis is great - no one will argue with you there.. low placement of lots of weight is good. suspension allows for great drive feel? CHECK CHECK CHECK.
The car is a collab between toyota and subaru. Subaru makes **** ENGINES that crack pistons left and right. Toyota makes crazy reliable engines and the engines that end up in cars like the elise. So which manufacturer do they choose to make the engine? FANTASTIC. Do they put a drivers engine in the car, like a straight 6 or a high revving/high specific output 4 cylinder engine? NO.
Someone said.. may have been same poster "you live with the chassis." Well.. you also "live with the engine." Sure you can swap an engine out - but if you have the money to do that you probably have the down payment for a used caymen s as well - so if that is the case then you can switch out the chassis and engine and have an actual sports car. I have said before, and will reiterate again, that you can't call a car witht his engine a drivers car or even a sports car. It continues to be a true statement.
I am with everyone else in this thread that does not get the hype around this car. If you want a weekend toy.. go spend half the money and get a real sports car off the used market. If you want a reliable appliance to haul the kids around on the week days - then get a twin... but don't come up in here talking about "check out my kids in the back seat - this is the greatest sports car ever." as if this car "is like.. the savior of the entire sports car niche"
and before people start saying that no one ever said this was the greatest sports car ever - you're right. no one has ever said that and no one ever will.
and before people say that there isn't a lot of hype around the car and people aren't getting overly excited about it - do us all a favor before you refute that and go confirm my count that there were 763 threads about this car last month. Which means that the car lounge is no longer a cool automotive forum site about cars in general - it is a site singularly devoted to the worship of a high mpg, low hp, low tq, **** interior, appliance that people use to get themselves to and from work, while feeling a bit smug about how well suspended their asses are.
Last edited by x1000rpms; 09-02-2012 at 01:49 PM.
Last edited by BetterByDesign; 09-02-2012 at 02:06 PM.
"It's not a lie if you believe it." - G. Costanza
Where does Light and Mustang come together. People will cross shop all the rwd coupes together, but please do not assume there have been seemingly dozens of "light" rwd sports coupes roaming the market for years. The miata really has been a lone soldier that has carried the torch for years. 350z/370z is more of a gt along with the mustang. Built to handle much more power and be in a higher class. The cars are competing with the likes of porsche and bmw m3 around the track, that was not the aim of the BRZ/FRS. Simple, no real frills, entertaining car. People want options, this is just another and those who are enthusiasts like it.
Everyone will complain about something, no car under 100k gets it right and if they do its too expensive for what is anyways, amiright.
Anyways, minus the wing this looks great.
I had an old Supra which I loved driving every day - even with no AC.
Now I have the same car, with more HP, safer, and gets 25mpg+ no matter how I bag on it.
If you can't understand why someone would want an E30 M3 or a Supra or a mint MR2 over a bloated modern Mustang/Camaro - well, we can't help you. Just accept you don't understand and move on. I'm sure there's a nice Odyssey with 275 hp to drool over...
I can fully understand why someone would want an E30 M3. It's ultra communicative, and very mechanical. It was the precursor to the latest and greatest Ms. There is the nostalgic drive to have an old Motorsport/homologation special. Not to mention that at it's time, it was a superlative car. So people live on that sentiment and still desire the car today.
The BRZ has none of those things going for it. It just has a similar curb weight/performance; so people naturally compare. But the M3 is a special car today because it was a superlative car in it's time. The brz is a mediocre car today, and will be forgotten tomorrow.
The BRZ is more 1990 Miata than E30 M3.