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    Thread: why don't new cars have a "panic" button?...

    1. Member GoLfUnV's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 10:37 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Jabbles22 View Post
      That being said the brakes are still mechanical and should stop the car. This is a plane but if you can stop an almost million pound plane you can stop a car.
      2 things: Cars dont have air brakes, and that plane was not fighting its engine(s). Try stopping plane with its engine set to maximum thrust.


      Quote Originally Posted by dwagner88 View Post
      I'd like my GTI a lot more if it made cookies for me. Fortunately I have a fiancée for that.
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      08-28-2012 10:45 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by mx5er View Post
      Because modern cars have a rev limiter. It's much easier to just pop it in neutral. Just pop it in neutral, pull over and come to a stop, then you can try to shut the engine off.
      Some cars have transmissions that aren't physically connected to the shifter. There is only an electrical connection and that may not allow you to take it out of 'drive' at speed.

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      08-28-2012 11:00 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by McBanagon View Post
      Did someone watch this today?



      I'm not against the idea.


      i saw this, what was stopping her from using the brakes? turning the car off? or putting it in neutral?

      no, instead she reaches for an already on going issue with todays drivers, the cellphone.

      they seriously need a major overhaul with drivers education and testing... this **** is getting ridiculous.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      No. Smell has a very strong connection in the brain with feelings... or if you're walking past A&F you might think of that chick you fingerblasted when you were 15.

    4. Member wraithkl626's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 11:32 AM #54
      If I owned a car that was newer with all of this automation from the gas pedal to the ignition switch and even the gear selector, I would definitely want a main kill switch that was not automated whatsoever. I have had too many computers fail on me to trust my life to one. I am in school right now to be an electrical engineer and last semester I built a motor control circuit using all brand new chips. After a few seconds of it being on, one of the chips went bad and the motor started to runaway and the only way I stopped it was by killing the main power. I replaced the chip with another brand new chip and it fixed the problem. Now I`ve said all of that to say this. I am not anti-technology when it comes to transportation, but the main problem that I have is with all of the automation in cars is that the electronics are not the same quality as what is used in airplanes and other things. They are consumer grade electronics which are built with profit in mind and nothing else. In the future, if there is a major shift into implementing higher quality chips into cars the safety record of these cars would increase and stories like the ones mentioned above would grow more scarce.

    5. Member SebTheDJ's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 11:41 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by x_GTI_x View Post


      i saw this, what was stopping her from using the brakes? turning the car off? or putting it in neutral?

      no, instead she reaches for an already on going issue with todays drivers, the cellphone.

      they seriously need a major overhaul with drivers education and testing... this **** is getting ridiculous.

      Drivers License tests are a joke in US. DL's are given out like coupons to a supermarket.

    6. 08-28-2012 11:41 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      Why do we need an extra button. We just need need to be able to turn the vehicle off (by ignition or start button) and/or put into neutral.
      A lot of the problem is the newfangled trend for push-button starting. Everyone with a driver's license knows how to use a normal keyed switch. The method of turning the engine off using that button is not intuitive (Hold it down for 3 seconds? Ya right - 3 seconds is a LONG time when you are staring at the back of a transport truck).

      While I don't disagree that "operator stupidity" plays a large part in this, I also think the auto industry has screwed up when they went to the push-button start and keyless ignition systems.

      Every motorcycle has push button starting. Every motorcycle also has "the big red button" that cuts power to the ignition and fuel injection (where equipped) systems when you press it. For that matter, race cars are done the same way. There is a hard-wired master switch that cuts ignition and fuel delivery without relying on electronics.

      There is a right way to do keyless ignition ... and it's to use a plain ordinary rotary switch with the exact same positions that a normal keyed switch has and sitting in the same place, the only difference being that you don't need a key to operate it. I've seen it on a touring motorcycle - I think it was a Kawasaki Concours 14 but could be wrong.

      Doing it this way preserves the same method of turning the engine off that everyone has been accustomed to ... and you don't need 3 seconds to do it, and that switch is hard-wired.

    7. Member thetwodubheads's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 11:43 AM #57
      Dear God what is wrong with people!?!
      I'm only 28, took driver's ed in 2000. Even then with a lot of computer controls in place, we were taught steps to take if the accelerator stuck. First and foremost was to hold the brake pedal. Then shift to neutral. Once stopped, shut off the car. All are steps taken throughout the course of a normal drive (well maybe not neutral, but using the shifter), and are not some foreign secret code. This is everyday common sense. Unlike first aid, which most of us learn once then never use it, driving is something almost all of us do everyday. There is no reason people can't operate their vehicle.

      I wish that someone in the media industry would read all this and come up with an educational PSA that can be produced and aired over and over on all of the news channels to educate the people who may need the information.

    8. Member Tiero's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 12:03 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by wraithkl626 View Post
      If I owned a car that was newer with all of this automation from the gas pedal to the ignition switch and even the gear selector, I would definitely want a main kill switch that was not automated whatsoever. I have had too many computers fail on me to trust my life to one. I am in school right now to be an electrical engineer and last semester I built a motor control circuit using all brand new chips. After a few seconds of it being on, one of the chips went bad and the motor started to runaway and the only way I stopped it was by killing the main power. I replaced the chip with another brand new chip and it fixed the problem. Now I`ve said all of that to say this. I am not anti-technology when it comes to transportation, but the main problem that I have is with all of the automation in cars is that the electronics are not the same quality as what is used in airplanes and other things. They are consumer grade electronics which are built with profit in mind and nothing else. In the future, if there is a major shift into implementing higher quality chips into cars the safety record of these cars would increase and stories like the ones mentioned above would grow more scarce.
      So whenever you make a mistake you blame the hardware?

      I guarantee the stuff you are using in school is cheaper than what most companies use. When i went to school the stuff we used was bottom of the barrel surplus electronics that were usually obsolete.

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      08-28-2012 12:16 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by x_GTI_x View Post


      i saw this, what was stopping her from using the brakes? turning the car off? or putting it in neutral?

      no, instead she reaches for an already on going issue with todays drivers, the cellphone.

      they seriously need a major overhaul with drivers education and testing... this **** is getting ridiculous.
      On the local news, they said the only thing that worked was for the driver to put her foot under the accelerator pedal and pull up. The 9-1-1 operator suggested this after the driver claimed to have tried everything else. It seems as if the accelerator pedal was actually stuck down and in WOT. "Pulling up" on the pedal worked to dislodge it. I'm not sure if all of us would think of doing that in this situation.

    10. Member Bias_Ply's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 12:16 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Tiero View Post
      What happens to an engine if you have too much air and not enough fuel?
      Ever run out of gas? that's what happens. Seriously though, this scenario doesn't require you thinking through about how you might be able to pull your fuel pump relay "just in case". It is just silly.

      Consider this: in the recent (in general terms, not internet terms) UI cases, the drivers said that all the systems incorporated by your panic button failed. People said the brakes went out. People said the shifter wouldn't move. People said the key wouldn't turn. What would make those same (and often times, poor and terrified) people not say that the panic button didn't work either?

      How would you stop the panic button from shutting the car down from an accidental tap? any "saftey" you put on it is going to cause people who are in a panic to not be able to operate it. The on/off button on a car requires you to hold it down for a few seconds to shut it off, this was the cause of one of the UI crashes, the driver didn't know that. So that's out for this panic button. How about a cover for the button? I can imagine people in a panic not being able to remember how to work the cover and etc etc...
      The good news: I gave up on being one of the cool kids!

    11. Member GoLfUnV's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 12:18 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by x_GTI_x View Post


      i saw this, what was stopping her from using the brakes? turning the car off? or putting it in neutral?

      no, instead she reaches for an already on going issue with todays drivers, the cellphone.

      they seriously need a major overhaul with drivers education and testing... this **** is getting ridiculous.
      why dont you go out on a hwy, run your car to 100mph, while keeping your right foot on the gas pedal (to simulate stuck pedal) slam on the brakes, turn off your car and put it in neurtal. Come back and let us know how it went, and how long it took you to stop. Better yet, get a gopro and record the whole thing, and post on here.
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    12. Member VW1.8Tsunami's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 12:29 PM #62
      Why not use the brake light switch to cut fuel to a min. when depressed?
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      08-28-2012 12:37 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by GoLfUnV View Post
      why dont you go out on a hwy, run your car to 100mph, while keeping your right foot on the gas pedal (to simulate stuck pedal) slam on the brakes, turn off your car and put it in neurtal. Come back and let us know how it went, and how long it took you to stop. Better yet, get a gopro and record the whole thing, and post on here.
      Let's not forget brake fade. I'm sure if you went two feet in on the brake with one stab, the car would come to a stop. I'm willing to bet that she (and the others) tried to stop with slight pressure, and then tried a little more, and before they knew it the brakes "wouldn't work" because they were overheated.
      Quote Originally Posted by VW1.8Tsunami View Post
      Why not use the brake light switch to cut fuel to a min. when depressed?
      Let's not complicate things any more, ok?

    14. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 12:59 PM #64
      I would go the other way around; make cars more complicated so that the drivers have no choice but to learn about car control skills. Most people who have been driving automatics all their lives have no idea what the neutral function on their car does. It's understandable, seeing as it's not something that's used often, or at all. I've heard of some people think it may break their car, others think it's a gateway to the cow level. If you manufacture manual transmission cars only, people will be forced to learn basic functions. Hey, give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime. I guess you could translate it roughly to give a woman an automatic, she'll go clothes shopping for a day, and total her uncontrollable car, give a woman a manual and she'll go clothes shopping for a lifetime.

      ...or something. I'm not sexist.

      Even better, give people transmissions with no synchromesh, rear wheel drive with no traction control or ABS.
      I'm sure that'll reduce the number of accidents.
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      08-28-2012 01:14 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by GoLfUnV View Post
      why dont you go out on a hwy, run your car to 100mph, while keeping your right foot on the gas pedal (to simulate stuck pedal) slam on the brakes, turn off your car and put it in neurtal. Come back and let us know how it went, and how long it took you to stop. Better yet, get a gopro and record the whole thing, and post on here.
      .... it would take all of 1 second to press the clutch, im sure it wouldnt be a very exciting gopro video.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      No. Smell has a very strong connection in the brain with feelings... or if you're walking past A&F you might think of that chick you fingerblasted when you were 15.

    16. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:16 PM #66
      OK guys. For the umpteenth time, it's not always as simple as some of you think.

      Yes, most runaway cars are the fault of the driver. Yes most that are not are because of either floor mats or some other mechanical issue with the throttle. There are some, though, that are not either of those things. There was a video of a runaway Toyota where the guy had the throttle stick (not his first time) and previously he had simply restarted it and the trouble went away. This time he drove the car to the dealership. He'd put it in gear, the car would accelerate and he'd stick it in neutral, slow down, put it back in gear and repeat 'til he got to the dealership. The video shows the guy there with the service guy admitting he had no idea why it was running on. Once the car was shut off, the car behaved normally upon restart.

      I will always require at least one mechanical device between me and the driven wheels, be it a clutch, mechanical ignition switch or automatic shifter that isn't computer controlled (like almost all cars today).

      The cop in the Lexus that had the runaway rental was a very experienced driver, but the rental had just been picked up, it had push button start and a weird (and computer controlled) shifter. The brakes overheated, the vacuum was gone (meaning he couldn't get assist either), he couldn't shift it into neutral and there was no key to shut off. Yes, he could've pushed the button for 3 seconds to shut it down, but this was his first time driving the car.

      Gimme a mechanical switch, shifter or clutch and I'm fine, though.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    17. Member x_GTI_x's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:17 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      I would go the other way around; make cars more complicated so that the drivers have no choice but to learn about car control skills. Most people who have been driving automatics all their lives have no idea what the neutral function on their car does. It's understandable, seeing as it's not something that's used often, or at all. I've heard of some people think it may break their car, others think it's a gateway to the cow level. If you manufacture manual transmission cars only, people will be forced to learn basic functions. Hey, give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish you feed him for a lifetime. I guess you could translate it roughly to give a woman an automatic, she'll go clothes shopping for a day, and total her uncontrollable car, give a woman a manual and she'll go clothes shopping for a lifetime.

      ...or something. I'm not sexist.

      Even better, give people transmissions with no synchromesh, rear wheel drive with no traction control or ABS.
      I'm sure that'll reduce the number of accidents.
      ^seriously though.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      No. Smell has a very strong connection in the brain with feelings... or if you're walking past A&F you might think of that chick you fingerblasted when you were 15.

    18. Member x_GTI_x's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:22 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      On the local news, they said the only thing that worked was for the driver to put her foot under the accelerator pedal and pull up. The 9-1-1 operator suggested this after the driver claimed to have tried everything else. It seems as if the accelerator pedal was actually stuck down and in WOT. "Pulling up" on the pedal worked to dislodge it. I'm not sure if all of us would think of doing that in this situation.
      wouldnt you notice the pedal literally being stuck to the floor if you drive the car daily?

      and if that was the case, wouldnt common sense kind of tell you to lift the pedal with your foot?

      and before anyone says "oh well in the heat of the moment" - bull. when i bought my cabby and drove it around for the first week, the RPMs would hang between shifts making for an awkward ride.

      a couple times during the winter, the accelerator actually stuck to where the car almost redlined... 2 things happened... i depressed the clutch, stuck my toe under the pedal and lifted. big deal.

      i think the majority of the issue is people have no idea what the **** they are doing in a car to begin with.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      No. Smell has a very strong connection in the brain with feelings... or if you're walking past A&F you might think of that chick you fingerblasted when you were 15.

    19. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:27 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by x_GTI_x View Post
      a couple times during the winter, the accelerator actually stuck to where the car almost redlined... 2 things happened... i depressed the clutch, stuck my toe under the pedal and lifted. big deal.
      I'm sure that was terrifying with those 80 out of control horsepowerz.

      Try that with an automatic, push button ignition, a non-car person and a 276 hp Camry at freeway speeds.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    20. Member x_GTI_x's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:35 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I'm sure that was terrifying with those 80 out of control horsepowerz.

      Try that with an automatic, push button ignition, a non-car person and a 276 hp Camry at freeway speeds.
      dont get a car with push button ignition? learn how to drive manual? acquire common sense?

      dont move the goal post here... I stated the car and what happened, a scenario that actually happened to me while driving my car.

      why am I driving some random push-button camry in your example?

      and who is to say my cabriolet is stock?
      Last edited by x_GTI_x; 08-28-2012 at 01:37 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      No. Smell has a very strong connection in the brain with feelings... or if you're walking past A&F you might think of that chick you fingerblasted when you were 15.

    21. Member VwG60Kid's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:43 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Tiero View Post
      What happens to an engine if you have too much air and not enough fuel?
      if its between flying off the road at full throttle and destroyed engine... f' the engine.

    22. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:49 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by x_GTI_x View Post
      dont get a car with push button ignition? learn how to drive manual? acquire common sense?

      dont move the goal post here... I stated the car and what happened, a scenario that actually happened to me while driving my car.

      why am I driving some random push-button camry in your example?

      and who is to say my cabriolet is stock?
      This thread is called "why don't new cars have a panic button". It is not called "why don't you need a panic button". I'm actually quite glad it's not a big deal to you, as it shouldn't be. It wasn't to me either when it happened on my '62 Beetle with about 70 hp (this was a 1650 lb car).

      I went for the 1-2 shift and when I did, the engine screamed well past what I was happy with and my reaction was to slam it in second and dump the clutch, as my hands and feet were poised to do so. I still don't think I had enough time to reach up and shut off the ignition switch before the engine grenaded itself. After I shifted into second, I reached up, shut off the switch and coasted into a Hardee's parking lot. The throttle spring had evacuated the entire region. (It was a Baja with an open engine compartment.) I walked into the Hardee's and asked for some rubber bands to fix my Volkswagen. (The girls reaction was priceless. ) I limped home and always carried a spare in the ash tray after that, but never needed one again. (so far)

      What does that have to do with this thread, though? Absolutely nothing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    23. Member x_GTI_x's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 01:58 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      This thread is called "why don't new cars have a panic button". It is not called "why don't you need a panic button". I'm actually quite glad it's not a big deal to you, as it shouldn't be. It wasn't to me either when it happened on my '62 Beetle with about 70 hp (this was a 1650 lb car).

      I went for the 1-2 shift and when I did, the engine screamed well past what I was happy with and my reaction was to slam it in second and dump the clutch, as my hands and feet were poised to do so. I still don't think I had enough time to reach up and shut off the ignition switch before the engine grenaded itself. After I shifted into second, I reached up, shut off the switch and coasted into a Hardee's parking lot. The throttle spring had evacuated the entire region. (It was a Baja with an open engine compartment.) I walked into the Hardee's and asked for some rubber bands to fix my Volkswagen. (The girls reaction was priceless. ) I limped home and always carried a spare in the ash tray after that, but never needed one again. (so far)

      What does that have to do with this thread, though? Absolutely nothing.
      touche.

      I just think the media is too quick to jump on the cars and manufacturers - people just wont own up to really not having a clue what to do in a similar situation.

      not to say if i got stuck going 100 mph id be perfectly calm and just pull over.

      but id like to think id consider every option possible to stop the car, including a pedal stuck under my foot.

      and stop making "cars for dummies" edition vehicles, things are entirely way too automated with vehicles now.

      just think of the next generation of kids that will be learning with all these handicaps and how bad they will be at driving until your basically sitting on a gondola to work everyday.

      I had no ABS, no trac control, 1 airbag and a manual transmission when i started driving. it only takes a couple slip ups to realize the potential of a vehicle first hand.
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      No. Smell has a very strong connection in the brain with feelings... or if you're walking past A&F you might think of that chick you fingerblasted when you were 15.

    24. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-28-2012 02:01 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by x_GTI_x View Post
      touche...
      We're not that far apart on our views on this particular subject, but long ago I realized that things on my list of "things I'd like to see happen" and the general list of "things that will never happen" were nearly the same list!
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    25. 08-28-2012 03:57 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      OK guys. For the umpteenth time, it's not always as simple as some of you think.

      Yes, most runaway cars are the fault of the driver. Yes most that are not are because of either floor mats or some other mechanical issue with the throttle. There are some, though, that are not either of those things. There was a video of a runaway Toyota where the guy had the throttle stick (not his first time) and previously he had simply restarted it and the trouble went away. This time he drove the car to the dealership. He'd put it in gear, the car would accelerate and he'd stick it in neutral, slow down, put it back in gear and repeat 'til he got to the dealership. The video shows the guy there with the service guy admitting he had no idea why it was running on. Once the car was shut off, the car behaved normally upon restart.

      I will always require at least one mechanical device between me and the driven wheels, be it a clutch, mechanical ignition switch or automatic shifter that isn't computer controlled (like almost all cars today).

      The cop in the Lexus that had the runaway rental was a very experienced driver, but the rental had just been picked up, it had push button start and a weird (and computer controlled) shifter. The brakes overheated, the vacuum was gone (meaning he couldn't get assist either), he couldn't shift it into neutral and there was no key to shut off. Yes, he could've pushed the button for 3 seconds to shut it down, but this was his first time driving the car.

      Gimme a mechanical switch, shifter or clutch and I'm fine, though.
      QFT. Bears repeating.

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